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10/30/2006 10:35:02 AM · #26 |
If you had the guts to put your flag (of any country) in the challenge I will start you with a "7" and work up from there.
IMO in this day and age it takes GUTS to be patriotic no matter what country you are a citizen of.
It is getting rediculous when you can't fly the Union Jack in England or Old Glory in Corpus Christi, Texas.
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10/30/2006 10:36:04 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
If you had the guts to put your flag (of any country) in the challenge I will start you with a "7" and work up from there.
IMO in this day and age it takes GUTS to be patriotic no matter what country you are a citizen of.
It is getting rediculous when you can't fly the Union Jack in England or Old Glory in Corpus Christi, Texas. |
It does seem weird to me that people could be proud of where they come from and yet embarrassed by the symbol of that place.
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10/30/2006 10:36:48 AM · #28 |
The first wind challenge Wind
had 17 American flags out of 199 entries. Its noteworthy that all but 2 were in the lower 1/2 of results.
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10/30/2006 10:37:04 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Well, here in the US, the neocons (Bush, Rove et. al.) have tried, and to some extent succeeded, in redefining patriotism as agreeing with their policies.
It's as if you don't support the Bush administration's every move, you must be a card carrying member of Al Quaeda.
I love my country, but I'm embarassed by its leaders. |
LOL......have an American friend and he says the exact same thing, except when he had something negative to say about the US government, he was concidered to be a commie! (he lived in the US in the 70-80s.
Guess some thing never change.
Message edited by author 2006-10-30 10:38:10. |
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10/30/2006 11:15:27 AM · #30 |
A unique idea is going to win this one. Not a flag photo. I don't see what the big deal is.
I say if you want to shoot a flag and enter it, good for you. I would like to see the flags of the other places represented in this global community of DP challenge. On my profile there are people from all over the world marked off. That is cool.
It isn't about supremacy and saying my place is better than yours, it is about pride in the place you live and keep alive by slaving away at work all day. Your sweat and tears belong to your country. If you like the place you live no harm in taking a photo of your flag, if you don't like where you live, then maybe you should move.
With that said, a flag probably will not win the wind challenge.
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10/30/2006 11:18:53 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by boomtap:
We have made ourselves a good life here. We are proud of the fact. |
You should also be proud of the USA giving birth to commerce-driven mass culture that kills fragile local cultures, really bad food, terrorist paranoia and new-age imperialism, DMCA, etc.
There are many good things that come out of US (the science in the universities is very strong, the space exploration, some independent artists, to name a few), but I bet that for every good thing something horrible can be named to counter-balance.
If I were an American, I'd hate to know where some of my tax dollars would be going, and I definitely would not be so proud as to waive the American flag at every occasion; but, perhaps, I'd be a different person if I were an American. |
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10/30/2006 11:23:15 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by rosiehall:
YEP.. lots of flags, but its hard to capture the wind on a still |
And flags certainly weren't the only, nor the most popular, trend of photogrpahic subjects in the competition IMO. There were one or two subjects I expected to see lots more of that I did not. Sorry to be so vague, but I don't want to be accused of tainting anyones impression of the subject categories.
edit: corrected spelling.
Message edited by author 2006-10-30 11:23:57.
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10/30/2006 11:27:44 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by papagei:
...Some are reading way too much into this.
And I don't get that flag display equals jingoism. |
I didn't say that a flag equals jingoism, what I said was...
"after a recent trip to the states I found that there is a good dash of patriotism there (certainly more than I have seen in other countries) that starts to wander into jingoism.
Jingoism isn’t good, patriotism isn’t badâ€Â¦"
I wasn't reading too much into a flag images being posted, it was more of a general comment. Don't get me wrong here, I tried to make it clear that I don't feel patriotism is a bad thing, my only observation was that it seems in the States more than other countries it can seem to wander into jingoism.
I guess I should also add that that I know to some people this may been seen as an attack on American culture but hey, there's freedom of speech for you
;o)
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10/30/2006 11:30:33 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
but I bet that for every good thing something horrible can be named to counter-balance.
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Name a country where this doesn't apply......
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10/30/2006 11:37:14 AM · #35 |
Why is it that whenever somebody says they like America, every other country comes out and says "shame on you for liking your country". No country is perfect, and you could not name me a place that does not have skeletons in the closet.
The best part is if a person doesn't like the lifestyle, food or politics of America you are always welcome to leave! We don't need more people coming here and telling us that they hate it. Nor do we ask for millions of people to imagrate here each year. But for some weird reason they poor into our country seeking the lifestlye that we have worked hard for. We welcome them in and make all their wildest dreams come true.
Seems to me that the entire world has sort of become "westernized". I wonder why that is.
Our food? Who do you think lives here. America is made up of Millions of people from all the countries in the world. We are the most diverse society in the world. Just in my place of work alone, there are people from Germany, France, India, Mexico, and Africa. They are the ones bringing thier culture and cuisine here. Maybe we like eating grease and cheese all day.
God Bless America. |
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10/30/2006 11:46:17 AM · #36 |
Ok, basically what I was syaing (not being very clear), is that challenge entries of flags are just that and there is no intended political statement. Along with the US flag, one can always find state flags flying as well, yet we don't have states at war with each other, because it's not a rivalry thing; not a "I am better than you" thing. If someone sees a political agenda, then that is assuming facts not in evidence.
And I'd really rather not see a simple DPC challenge turn into an unattractive political thread.
We are all photographers here and we shoot what is around us, no? There is plenty of good and bad in every country, every group; 'nuff said :)
Originally posted by IanA:
Originally posted by papagei:
...Some are reading way too much into this.
And I don't get that flag display equals jingoism. |
I didn't say that a flag equals jingoism, what I said was...
"after a recent trip to the states I found that there is a good dash of patriotism there (certainly more than I have seen in other countries) that starts to wander into jingoism.
Jingoism isn’t good, patriotism isn’t badâ€Â¦"
I wasn't reading too much into a flag images being posted, it was more of a general comment. Don't get me wrong here, I tried to make it clear that I don't feel patriotism is a bad thing, my only observation was that it seems in the States more than other countries it can seem to wander into jingoism.
I guess I should also add that that I know to some people this may been seen as an attack on American culture but hey, there's freedom of speech for you
;o) |
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10/30/2006 11:48:38 AM · #37 |
| I agree, no political statement. |
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10/30/2006 11:50:31 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
Name a country where this doesn't apply |
Very true. However, I often get the feeling that the Americans have this self-righteous attitude and need to be told that their country is responsible for just as many horrible things, as well as for the good ones. Perhaps I'm overreacting. I am not anti-American (or anti- any country, for that matter), but the so-called American patriotism, gets on my nerves sometimes. It seems that often an American can forgive its government anything as long as he is getting his material joys of life. |
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10/30/2006 11:54:12 AM · #39 |
Does this have to disintegrate into country (culture)-bashing?
Ok, you are happy you are not an American. Fine. I have traveled to other places, other countries, and I am very happy to live in and return to the USA.
Different strokes for different folks.
Originally posted by agenkin:
Originally posted by boomtap:
We have made ourselves a good life here. We are proud of the fact. |
You should also be proud of the USA giving birth to commerce-driven mass culture that kills fragile local cultures, really bad food, terrorist paranoia and new-age imperialism, DMCA, etc.
There are many good things that come out of US (the science in the universities is very strong, the space exploration, some independent artists, to name a few), but I bet that for every good thing something horrible can be named to counter-balance.
If I were an American, I'd hate to know where some of my tax dollars would be going, and I definitely would not be so proud as to waive the American flag at every occasion; but, perhaps, I'd be a different person if I were an American. |
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10/30/2006 11:57:32 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by Krisby:
Has any one else noticed that thers about 30 photos of the American flag in the wind challenge? People sure must love there country loads! |
I think the first statement was simply a perspective of how the viewer perceived a string of the same subject matter so they were likely looking for more diversity among the pictures.
The second is probably just a spooning comment and it looks like it is working
:-) ;-)
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10/30/2006 11:58:39 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by papagei:
We are all photographers here and we shoot what is around us, no? There is plenty of good and bad in every country, every group; 'nuff said :) |
A good point well made!
:o)
Message edited by author 2006-10-30 11:59:18. |
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10/30/2006 12:05:40 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
Originally posted by neophyte:
Name a country where this doesn't apply |
Very true. However, I often get the feeling that the Americans have this self-righteous attitude and need to be told that their country is responsible for just as many horrible things, as well as for the good ones. Perhaps I'm overreacting. I am not anti-American (or anti- any country, for that matter), but the so-called American patriotism, gets on my nerves sometimes. It seems that often an American can forgive its government anything as long as he is getting his material joys of life. |
That is a myth I think. Americans do not see themselves as better than others. They are very proud of what their hard work has produced, but do not look down on other countries...except Cuba. |
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10/30/2006 12:10:32 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
Originally posted by neophyte:
Name a country where this doesn't apply |
Very true. However, I often get the feeling that the Americans have this self-righteous attitude and need to be told that their country is responsible for just as many horrible things, as well as for the good ones. Perhaps I'm overreacting. I am not anti-American (or anti- any country, for that matter), but the so-called American patriotism, gets on my nerves sometimes. It seems that often an American can forgive its government anything as long as he is getting his material joys of life. |
I'm sorry you feel this way but your generalizations make you appear anti american in the context of this thread (to me anyway). I've traveled throughout our hemisphere and have met kind and self righteous people from every country imaginable (Including our great nieghbors to the north.) People are people. I was hoping to see flags from more countries in this challenge. By the way I don't forgive our government for everything. Its that I prefer to respond at the polls..... One of the great things about the US, Sweet land of liberty.
And I've nothing against Cuba. Beautiful country that I can't enter legally due to policies I disagree with.
Message edited by author 2006-10-30 12:12:52.
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10/30/2006 12:13:40 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by boomtap:
The best part is if a person doesn't like the lifestyle, food or politics of America you are always welcome to leave! |
I hear this over and over, but in practice it is nowhere near as easy as you imply. First, you have to find a country that suits you in terms of politics and lifestyle. Then you have essentially have to prove to that country that you would be a productive member of their society, and the visa you are granted often varies in price according to what sorts of work skills you are able to bring. I promise that photography isn't going to be very high on the desirability list and will carry a heftier price tag than someone with a bunch of certifications and education in something that country's government can actually use, or which its industry needs. Once you get that permission (which can be difficult to come by), you still have to come up with a goodly sum of money, usually in the tens of thousands of dollars, to pay for your very expensive visas, your moving expenses, etc. Good luck getting a loan to do it - no bank will be too thrilled to hear you plan to flee the country since it makes the loan impossible to collect. I recently watched a friend jump through all these hoops to do just that, and she had a fiance waiting for her, so imagine the increased difficulty in proving your case if you have no obvious incentive to go.
The process varies from place to place, but generally the places with lax immigration standards are not going to be places high on your list of desirable locales anyway.
How many people have the patience or the funds to go through this process? Would you be so readily able? Celebrities can throw down a lot of cash to make it look easy, but the fact is that most people on the planet are pretty much stuck wherever they are. We can't just leave because we don't like it, and people forget that one of the beautiful things about America is that we have a government that allows us to be publicly disgruntled.
/rant
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10/30/2006 12:22:44 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Originally posted by boomtap:
The best part is if a person doesn't like the lifestyle, food or politics of America you are always welcome to leave! |
I hear this over and over, but in practice it is nowhere near as easy as you imply. First, you have to find a country that suits you in terms of politics and lifestyle. Then you have essentially have to prove to that country that you would be a productive member of their society, and the visa you are granted often varies in price according to what sorts of work skills you are able to bring. I promise that photography isn't going to be very high on the desirability list and will carry a heftier price tag than someone with a bunch of certifications and education in something that country's government can actually use, or which its industry needs. Once you get that permission (which can be difficult to come by), you still have to come up with a goodly sum of money, usually in the tens of thousands of dollars, to pay for your very expensive visas, your moving expenses, etc. Good luck getting a loan to do it - no bank will be too thrilled to hear you plan to flee the country since it makes the loan impossible to collect. I recently watched a friend jump through all these hoops to do just that, and she had a fiance waiting for her, so imagine the increased difficulty in proving your case if you have no obvious incentive to go.
The process varies from place to place, but generally the places with lax immigration standards are not going to be places high on your list of desirable locales anyway.
How many people have the patience or the funds to go through this process? Would you be so readily able? Celebrities can throw down a lot of cash to make it look easy, but the fact is that most people on the planet are pretty much stuck wherever they are. We can't just leave because we don't like it, and people forget that one of the beautiful things about America is that we have a government that allows us to be publicly disgruntled.
/rant |
I never said it would be easy. But nothing (but countries other than ours) is stopping a person from leaving. Should we blame America because a person that wants to live somewhere else can't get into the other country. We have no control over that.
/rant |
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10/30/2006 12:28:30 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by boomtap:
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Originally posted by boomtap:
The best part is if a person doesn't like the lifestyle, food or politics of America you are always welcome to leave! |
I hear this over and over, but in practice it is nowhere near as easy as you imply. First, you have to find a country that suits you in terms of politics and lifestyle. Then you have essentially have to prove to that country that you would be a productive member of their society, and the visa you are granted often varies in price according to what sorts of work skills you are able to bring. I promise that photography isn't going to be very high on the desirability list and will carry a heftier price tag than someone with a bunch of certifications and education in something that country's government can actually use, or which its industry needs. Once you get that permission (which can be difficult to come by), you still have to come up with a goodly sum of money, usually in the tens of thousands of dollars, to pay for your very expensive visas, your moving expenses, etc. Good luck getting a loan to do it - no bank will be too thrilled to hear you plan to flee the country since it makes the loan impossible to collect. I recently watched a friend jump through all these hoops to do just that, and she had a fiance waiting for her, so imagine the increased difficulty in proving your case if you have no obvious incentive to go.
The process varies from place to place, but generally the places with lax immigration standards are not going to be places high on your list of desirable locales anyway.
How many people have the patience or the funds to go through this process? Would you be so readily able? Celebrities can throw down a lot of cash to make it look easy, but the fact is that most people on the planet are pretty much stuck wherever they are. We can't just leave because we don't like it, and people forget that one of the beautiful things about America is that we have a government that allows us to be publicly disgruntled.
/rant |
I never said it would be easy. But nothing (but countries other than ours) is stopping a person from leaving. Should we blame America because a person that wants to live somewhere else can't get into the other country. We have no control over that.
/rant |
You're missing the point: Money stops people from leaving. The only people who are free to leave at will are the ones who can afford to pay for it. Generally, those people have names like Anna Nicole Smith and Michael Jackson. People with names like Rebecca Lehmann can't afford to leave, even if they wanted to. Don't tell me to leave the country unless you're willing to foot the bill.
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10/30/2006 12:31:20 PM · #47 |
I personally loved what I saw of America on holiday a few years back (Mickey Mouse lives there for a start!!!!), and I do beleive that a large portion are good people.
Unfortunately, your beautifull country and largly wonderful population are having terrible things done in their name, do yourselves a favour and vote to get your dignity back.
When the time comes, I will not be backing Tony Blair here, I voted him in and now have to bare the responsibility for what him and his party have done in the name of world peace.
Anyway, this is getting a little off topic, yes there are a lot of flag images aren't there! Luckily the USA flag is one that I really like, a lot of the European ones are very dull, just crosses or bands of colour (except for my beloved Welsh flag of course) |
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10/30/2006 12:32:01 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by boomtap:
That is a myth I think. Americans do not see themselves as better than others. They are very proud of what their hard work has produced, but do not look down on other countries...except Cuba. |
Sorry, but I am not going to take your word for this. It disturbs me to see someone say he is proud to live in a country that elected and re-elected an illiterate cowboy as their leader, the country that invades other countries for the reasons of profit, etc. |
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10/30/2006 12:36:44 PM · #49 |
Unbelievable...
Challenge = "Wind", and how to show it.
Things that visibly and obviously show/capture the wind = draperies, flags, sailboats, and umbrellas turned inside out (to name four common themes in the challenge).
Anyone who's trying to lay political overtones on the depiction of flags in this challenge has to be out of their mind, IMO.
R. |
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10/30/2006 12:40:15 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
It disturbs me to see someone say he is proud to live in a country that elected and re-elected an illiterate cowboy as their leader, the country that invades other countries for the reasons of profit, etc. |
George Bush ain't no "cowboy"; he's a member of a Patrician, East Coast Yankee family of long standing who happens to be domiciled in Texas, where a branch of his family settled in to make a fortune off of oil. I wish we DID have a cowboy in the White House; in my (relatively limited, I admit) experience, cowboys tend to be down-to-earth, straightforward, no-bullshit individuals.
R. |
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