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 10/21/2006 09:09:47 PM · #1
I can't get my black and white shots to look like they did when I shot film. What is it about digital that makes the photos appear too "shiny" or "polished"? Does anyone have any suggestions for getting good black and white images from my digital camera? I am considering going back to film with my Nikon N80 and buying a scanner because of the disappointments with my black and white digital shots. In my opinion, there is a larger range of tones in film as opposed to digital. What are your thoughts on this?
 10/21/2006 09:13:20 PM · #2
Converting rgb into black & white that resembles true film b&w is difficult. It's not a one-click thing and requires some finesse and trail and error. There are a number of actions that help the process for those not wanting to use the channel mixer, calculations method, duo/tri/quadtones, etc over at atncentral
 10/21/2006 09:15:08 PM · #3
Film just does all the toning for you is all, in this case, it gives you the base file, and you do all the toning in post. Not really a problem, just a difference.
 10/21/2006 09:16:08 PM · #4
Originally posted by BradP:
Converting rgb into black & white that resembles true film b&w is difficult. It's not a one-click thing and requires some finesse and trail and error. There are a number of actions that help the process for those not wanting to use the channel mixer, calculations method, duo/tri/quadtones, etc over at atncentral


Thanks. Brad or anyone else, have you ever scanned a black and white negative onto a computer? I'm interested in the results. I've never done it. Does the scanned film required a lot of editing as well?
 10/21/2006 09:20:49 PM · #5
Originally posted by nfessel:

Thanks. Brad or anyone else, have you ever scanned a black and white negative onto a computer? I'm interested in the results. I've never done it. Does the scanned film required a lot of editing as well?


I've never done it, but my FIL has all his slides back to the 60's stuff scanned and saved to DVD. I could ask him I guess, but he's more a documentarian than an artist. (hiking trips, hiking trips, and more hiking trips)
 10/21/2006 09:27:11 PM · #6
i scan in my black and whites from my n80. mine really only need minor level adjustments. but sometimes it depends on the quality of film.
 10/21/2006 09:28:11 PM · #7
Don't just click on desaturation, it'll in many cases be flat looking. Play with the channel and the channel mixer for best results. If you start using channel colors you can really choose the best contrast possible. Good luck.
 10/21/2006 09:29:00 PM · #8
Originally posted by kwalls:
i scan in my black and whites from my n80. mine really only need minor level adjustments. but sometimes it depends on the quality of film.


Ok thanks. My D200 has a black and white mode. Perhaps I can get better results shooting in black and white in-camera. I hate to go back to film because it is so expensive.

Message edited by author 2006-10-21 21:29:50.
 10/21/2006 09:31:00 PM · #9
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
Don't just click on desaturation, it'll in many cases be flat looking. Play with the channel and the channel mixer for best results. If you start using channel colors you can really choose the best contrast possible. Good luck.


Yeah. I don't desaturate my shots. I use channel mixer. I'm also playing with a bw filter from Alien Skin that works ok. It's still not close to film though.
 10/21/2006 09:34:00 PM · #10
Originally posted by nfessel:
Originally posted by kwalls:
i scan in my black and whites from my n80. mine really only need minor level adjustments. but sometimes it depends on the quality of film.


Ok thanks. My D200 has a black and white mode. Perhaps I can get better results shooting in black and white in-camera. I hate to go back to film because it is so expensive.


ha, thats why i bought my D50 in the first place. so i could experiment with it and perfect the shots with my N80. it sure does make experimenting cheaper!

Message edited by author 2006-10-21 21:35:03.
 10/21/2006 09:39:07 PM · #11
Most film scanners are optimized to scan color transparencies. You can scan B&W film but my experience is that chromogenic B&W film scans much easier than traditional B&W. You also lose a lot of ability to manipulate tones in PS since you don't have the color data, so you need to use glass filters on camera for control of tonality just as if you were printing traditionally in a darkroom. I've seen some incredible digital B&W images online, but for my money, in person, a well exposed and processed fiber based darkroom print still beats an inkjet digital B&W of equal quality. There is no doubt that digital has arrived and is the future, but it is not the same as film. My suggestion, and what I have done, would be to continue shooting color digitally and buy an inexpensive film body for B&W(the FE and FM series are great cameras as long as you have non-G lenses), skip the scanner and print in the darkroom if you are still unable to achieve the look you want from your digital conversions.

Message edited by author 2006-10-21 21:41:47.
 10/21/2006 09:44:38 PM · #12
Originally posted by EricMGB1974:
Most film scanners are optimized to scan color transparencies. You can scan B&W film but my experience is that chromogenic B&W film scans much easier than traditional B&W. You also lose a lot of ability to manipulate tones in PS since you don't have the color data, so you need to use glass filters on camera for control of tonality just as if you were printing traditionally in a darkroom. I've seen some incredible digital B&W images online, but for my money, in person, a well exposed and processed fiber based darkroom print still beats an inkjet digital B&W of equal quality. There is no doubt that digital has arrived and is the future, but it is not the same as film. My suggestion, and what I have done, would be to continue shooting color digitally and buy an inexpensive film body for B&W(the FE and FM series are great cameras as long as you have non-G lenses), skip the scanner and print in the darkroom if you are still unable to achieve the look you want from your digital conversions.


Thanks. I agree with you about the fiber prints. I was able to get some awesome fiber prints in my college darkroom. I've been shooting digital for 3 years and I still can't mimic the detail and tonal range of those fiber prints. I love digital, but it is frustrating when I want to get a certain look and I still can't get it from my D200.
10/21/2006 10:06:51 PM · #13
I still have mixed feelings about digital and black & white, as it is my favorite. There is something about a great b&w that a color simply cannot compete with and I think it's greatly due to our brains having to be so busy processing the colors that the emotional aspect & richness gets lost in the process.

I've spent a geat deal of time trying to get it right in digital and think I've come close, but there is still something lacking.


link to b&w folder


link to b&w candids folder
 10/21/2006 10:30:32 PM · #14
On a Windoze PC? Try some b/w conversions in (free) Virtual Photographer.

//www.optikvervelabs.com/default.asp

10/21/2006 10:43:42 PM · #15
//www.dpchallenge.com/tutorial.php?TUTORIAL_ID=43

This tutorial helped me alot.
 10/21/2006 10:47:39 PM · #16
alienskin has a photoshop plugin called exposure.... it replicated a bunch of film styles b/w and color... sounds like its what your looking for :)
 10/21/2006 10:55:45 PM · #17
Thanks for the tips. I e-mailed Paul Politis and asked him how he gets such good tonal range in his digital black and whites. He shoots with film and a Canon EOS 20D. I enjoy looking at his portfolio. Hopefully he will reply to my question.

Yes, I've been playing with Exposure by Alien Skin and I've gotten some good results, but the results don't please me as much as my film prints.
 10/21/2006 10:57:48 PM · #18
keep in mind you can also create your own affect or build off ready made films..
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