Want to shoot a wedding? - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

10/19/2006 11:26:09 AM · #1

Lots of folks here do, or would like to, or get asked to do it becuase a friend or coworker knows you're into photography.

I can tell you it's not easy money, it's real work (if you do it right and take it seriously) and there is no do-over if the pics suck. The happy couple has to live with them for the rest of their lives.

Maybe look at it this way:
What if they asked you to cook the food for the reception. You can cook, right? You probably made dinner in the last week. You can do it for less than any caterer I'm sure - i know dinner here last night didn't cost $25/plate!

Maybe you can save the B&G the cost of a cake. A few boxes of mix and icing, a little couple on top, what, $40? Why on earth would anyone pay $800 or $1500 for cake then? Outrageous when you could do it for less!

IMO, it's the same with wedding photography. Just because you have the equipment and can take a photo does not mean you're a wedding photographer.

And that's not a bad thing! I make a mean pot of chili, but I have no illusion of being a caterer.

fotomann_forever

10/19/2006 11:28:41 AM · #2

All very true.

deapee

Kodak V803

10/19/2006 11:34:48 AM · #3

What is the point...to talk people out of shooting weddings, Chris?

Everyone has to start somewhere, just like every professional in every field started somewhere. The answer for where to start certainly isn't a twenty thousand dollar school either. There are plenty of people who are great photographers who never stepped foot in a school after 12th grade.

I mean everything you say is true, but I just don't get why you want to talk people out of shooting a wedding if they get the opportunity. That's where you started, right? Why should they be talked out of the same opportunity you had?

rex

Canon PowerShot SD780

10/19/2006 11:38:30 AM · #4

Originally posted by ddpNikon:

Ditto. I shot my first wedding two weekends ago. The photos would probably get tore apart on DPC but the couple loved them and that is all that matters.

Message edited by author 2006-10-19 11:39:03.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

10/19/2006 11:46:48 AM · #5

I think the key to gaining mastery as a wedding photographer is to apprentice with an established professional; study the works of those accomplished in the field; and to like people and those kinds of social events.

mrorange002

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

10/19/2006 11:47:58 AM · #6

God, i wish everyone would read this!

BUT....

if a B&G want photos on the cheap or free, well....

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

mist

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/19/2006 11:51:18 AM · #7

Originally posted by mrorange002:

God, i wish everyone would read this!

BUT....

if a B&G want photos on the cheap or free, well....

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

Well, exactly. If (and this wouldn't happen anyway) for example, a bride and groom asked me to shoot their wedding, I would explain to them calmly that the results wouldn't be what they would expect from a professional, but, if they still wanted to go ahead, really it is up to them.

So really it is for both sides (photographer AND B&G) to accept the responsibility.

Pedro

Nikon D200

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

10/19/2006 11:57:05 AM · #8

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

This is good advice. If I wanted to become a helicopter pilot I wouldn't just jump in the cockpit and take off. I'd educate myself, then I'd fly second chair for a while, then I'd fly left chair with a backup for a while, THEN I'd feel ok flying solo.

That said I shot my first wedding blind. in retrospect I know the photos could have been MUCH better, even though the bride and groom will never know that :)

P

PhantomEWO

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

10/19/2006 11:58:41 AM · #9

The cake $200 and up
The Wedding Dress $300 and way up
Flowers $300 and up
Tux for men lots of money
Church and or reception hall BIG money
Catering very very expensive

And then the beginning wedding photo ... $500 or less.

YGTBSM.

The cake is eaten, the food is digested, the wedding dress is worn one time, the tux are returned to the rental, the flowers dryup and wilt, the church and reception hall is being used by the next wedding. Soooooo .....
What is left ..... the PHOTOS!

No matter how you think, the only thing that lasts is the photo. When the next bride tries to bargain on photo price, give here this description of a wedding and she'll see how important a GOOD Wedding Photog is.

And for the Wedding Photos ... don't take a chance with the most important part of a wedding, do it right or not at all. If you only have one hi quality camera, don't even think about doing it. What if it malfunctions, breaks or you drop it. This is important, be prepared but also don't undercharge. Yup this could easily get into the same discussion of Macro Vs Micro Stock selling but Weddings are so much more important.

deapee

Kodak V803

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

10/19/2006 12:02:07 PM · #10

Originally posted by Pedro:

Originally posted by Olyuzi:
I think the key to gaining mastery as a wedding photographer is to apprentice with an established professional; study the works of those accomplished in the field; and to like people and those kinds of social events.

This is good advice. If I wanted to become a helicopter pilot I wouldn't just jump in the cockpit and take off. I'd educate myself, then I'd fly second chair for a while, then I'd fly left chair with a backup for a while, THEN I'd feel ok flying solo.

That said I shot my first wedding blind. in retrospect I know the photos could have been MUCH better, even though the bride and groom will never know that :)

P

Two completey different things there. Anyone who wants to fly a helicopter has to go through the schooling and training. Anyone who wants to shoot weddings just needs the experience.

Some people go on and assist professionals. Some people go shoot weddings and explain their situation properly to the B&G. In either event, you aren't doing the wrong thing. To try and talk people out of it completely is absurd, especially on a photography forum where people are so into moving forward. It takes motivation and determination, but 90% of the people here could probably wing it at a wedding and do just fine as long as the B&G understood their situation.

I've done two weddings...and from those two weddings, I've gotten about 15 calls from their family/friends who are having more weddings who say my photos are better than the photos their friends have gotten who have paid top dollar for the photography. I just tell them that it's not something I do and I refer them to a friend of mine who does weddings. Sometimes they offer to pay me top dollar, but wedding photography just isn't something I'll ever be into.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

10/19/2006 12:14:20 PM · #11

I'm not sure the op is trying to dissuade people here in shooting a wedding but rather explaing the realities of what's involved and his own personal take on the enormous responsibilities he feels.

Originally posted by ddpNikon:

I've done two weddings...

fotomann_forever

10/19/2006 12:21:07 PM · #12

I think it's more a rant of how B&G's seem to underrate the wedding photography.

A lot of people skimp on this very important part of the deal, going with an Uncle, cousin, whoever they know that is into photography, expecting that he/she can shoot weddings.

Truth is that it's not that easy and takes more than just photography skills.

cryan

Nikon D700

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro for Nikon

10/19/2006 12:22:47 PM · #13

This really is a dead horse. We all achknowledge that weddings are hard. Really hard. They are very strssful for the photographer and to be a good wedding photographer you have to be so much more than just a photographer. You are the one who usually gets everyone where they need to be on time, calm a very nervous B&G, hell sometimes even help the B&G in getting dressed. Trust me it happens all the time. I've been doing weddings for 10 years, the first one scared the hell out of me. I was lucky and smart enough to have a list of the shots that not only the B&G wanted but of standard stuff. Each wedding offers a challenge, lighting, attitudes, family and friends. The list goes on. You have to be prepared for anything, its pretty much a given that something will not go as planned. How do you react? I will never talk anybody out of being a wedding photographer, but I will educate them as to what to expect and what is expected of them.

hanneke

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/19/2006 12:24:44 PM · #14

B&G?

idnic

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

10/19/2006 12:26:26 PM · #15

What I find so commonly overlooked by new wedding photographers is the part of the job that has nothing to do with shooting. The contracts, hours of processing, building albums, ordering proofs, ordering albums, scheduling proof appointments, collecting money, shipping prints, and on and on and on.... The wedding is one day, but the work can go on for months. I know I was uneducated when I shot my first... its a hard lesson to learn when you end up losing money on a wedding.

alanfreed

Nikon Z9

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

10/19/2006 12:26:39 PM · #16

Boogers & Grime... 'er, I mean Bride & Groom :)

Originally posted by biteme:

B&G?

10/19/2006 12:26:55 PM · #17

Originally posted by ddpNikon:

No, that's not how I got started. I was looking for a career change and figured I might be able to make some money with my camera stuff. I was thinking fine art or stock really. I asked around and got the 'shoot a wedding - it's an easy $1000' line from a few people. I'm not just off the boat - there is no such thing as easy money. So I began investigating the field, the business. I shot second at a wedding, I assisted at another, and guested at a third, and shot first (for free) at yet another. At no time were my pics important, even on the last one they never bothered to pic up their pics (a second wedding and they had decided no photog at all). By then I had a clue of what I was getting myself into, work and equipment and expense wise. I then went to school for a week, bought more books and a photovisionvideo DVD. The schooling and DVDs were more enlightening than you can imagine.

I also sold off my amatuer gear and got better stuff and back up equipment too. Equipment matters and anyone that says different is ignorant or lying. Why would a pro spend $3000 on a 5D if a 400XTi is just as good? You don't need all L glass, but there is a minimum quality level needed. I found a lab and album company - it's not costco and Michaels Crafts. These things matter too. Prints that fade or are printed poorly, albums that fall about or warp in humid conditions - these make a difference and unless you take the time and make the effort to find the good stuff you're not being professional. And if you're charging, you're a professional.

Many folks think like you Dave - I can do it, I know which end of a camera to look thru! And they fail to realize what they're really getting themselves into. Shooting a wedding is not the same as spending a day at the zoo.

Why is the Bride choosing you or a coworker to capture their most imporant day for all time? 'Cause they think you do good work? Perhaps, but it's due to ignorance. Sure, some can't afford more, but call a church or two - if the couple will spend $1000 to use a building for 2 hours I'd tell them to get married in the park or their home and spend that $1000 on photography instead. They choose the cheap or free option cause they don't place a value on photography. They don't know the difference bewteen OOF and dark and a well composed image. Sure they'll be happy with what you give them - they don't know any better.

If you know good photography, and it's value and worth, then why wouldn't you counsel them to hire a pro? Or at least someone with experience and proper gear, backups, etc?

idnic

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

10/19/2006 12:26:58 PM · #18

Originally posted by biteme:

B&G?

Bride & Groom

Pedro

Nikon D200

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

10/19/2006 12:27:05 PM · #19

Originally posted by ddpNikon:

Two completey different things there. Anyone who wants to fly a helicopter has to go through the schooling and training. Anyone who wants to shoot weddings just needs the experience.

I get your point, and I'm not necessarily even disagreeing with you. But like the helicopter pilot, if I'm going to do a job, I want to do it right. Granted the consequences are a little more dire for the pilot if he messes up, unless of course the bride has a temper.

The reality is, good wedding photography takes practice. whether you gain that practice without a safety net or not is up to you. Personally I still believe all involved will be happier if you use one.

hanneke

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/19/2006 12:27:42 PM · #20

Originally posted by idnic:

Originally posted by biteme:
B&G?

Bride & Groom

oh shit, now it looks like I'm blonde.. sorry

edit: oooh man, I AM blonde! :S

Message edited by author 2006-10-19 12:28:12.

10/19/2006 12:30:15 PM · #21

Originally posted by idnic:

That's why so many don't do all that - "$300 and I'll give you a disk of files". Pre-digital it was "I'll shoot it for the cost of the film".

I know two of those 'for the film' shooters. I've seen the pics. I've seen the bride cry. White balance? No, only one type of film. Flash? No...not that either. Cheap (aka slow) consumer glass (35-80 kit lens). No clue on posing.

Photography is not gasoline, where the cheapest works as well as the most expensive.

10/19/2006 12:32:41 PM · #22

Originally posted by biteme:

Originally posted by idnic:

Originally posted by biteme:
B&G?

Bride & Groom

oh shit, now it looks like I'm blonde.. sorry

edit: oooh man, I AM blonde! :S

Ooooh, test time?
MIL
MOB

idnic

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

10/19/2006 12:33:15 PM · #23

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Ooooh, test time?
MIL
MOB

I know, I know... pick me! lol

hanneke