Forum Rule #2 Poll - DPChallenge Forums

10/17/2006 12:58:07 PM · #51

Originally posted by GeneralE:

What's really a shame is that we never seem to have a thorough, in-depth discussion of the challenge results -- except maybe the "under-rated" threads -- afterwards. That would be the time to throw in alternates or out-takes and compare them with how the entries actually finished.

Perhaps you've just offered a positive solution. Why not an official outtakes and challenge results thread when the voting period ends.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/17/2006 01:01:08 PM · #52

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I think all of this discussion is pretty much missing the real point, or at least what I see as the real point; for me it's not so much a matter of possible influencing of the voters, it's a matter of civility. Forgive me for continually restating this, but I think it's important.

If you were having an opening of a photography show at a gallery, and someone came in with his own portfolio and spread it out in the corner and engaged your guests in a dialogue about HIS pictures, wouldn't you feel a little put out? It's just not polite, it's not "civilized". That's not a perfect parallel, but that's sort of the principle I'm worried about.

R.

Why should an entire category of discourse be shut down for the sake of potentially rude behavior? There are plenty of perfectly valid reasons for posting what could be considered an outtake, often in the context of a polite discussion in order to make a point.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

10/17/2006 01:02:06 PM · #53

Originally posted by routerguy666:

How it should be changed: outtake should be defined as an alternate to a submitted image. If the person has no submitted image, whatever they post is not an outtake.

Then it would just be called a distraction. :D Actually, wait - that works. Isn't that an Individual Photograph Discussion thread? Just don't ask how people would have voted on it IF it had been entered.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

10/17/2006 01:04:13 PM · #54

Originally posted by posthumous:

Just for the week of voting. What's the big deal about waiting a week?

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

10/17/2006 01:04:23 PM · #55

Originally posted by neophyte:

Perhaps you've just offered a positive solution. Why not an official outtakes ...

I think there's been one for a few weeks, automatically-generated after each challenge.

Message edited by author 2006-10-17 13:05:41.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/17/2006 01:07:49 PM · #56

Originally posted by neophyte:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Why should an entire category of discourse be shut down for the sake of potentially rude behavior? There are plenty of perfectly valid reasons for posting what could be considered an outtake, often in the context of a polite discussion in order to make a point.

Just for the week of voting. What's the big deal about waiting a week?

shut up. until next week. then you can talk to me.
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See what I'm saying?

10/17/2006 01:13:08 PM · #57

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by neophyte:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Why should an entire category of discourse be shut down for the sake of potentially rude behavior? There are plenty of perfectly valid reasons for posting what could be considered an outtake, often in the context of a polite discussion in order to make a point.

Just for the week of voting. What's the big deal about waiting a week?

shut up. until next week. then you can talk to me.
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See what I'm saying?

Yeah... and it still no big deal..... I agree with glad2badad.. when you ask what I would've voted you've changed it from a discussion of the photo to a distraction from the official competition IMO.

Message edited by author 2006-10-17 13:16:38.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

10/17/2006 01:16:36 PM · #58

When a society or an online community becomes so heavily laden with rules & regulations that one has to walk softly or somebody will have a hissy fit if someone step out of line, then what? Where's the fun?
The challenges here are "supposed to be" all in good fun, but seems they have become means to argue about something.
This isn't an executive boardroom where people's futures, jobs and income are at stake. There are no cash prizes, boats given away, around the world cruises won, it's supposed to be a place to hang out, have fun, share pictures, share a common passion of art & photography, learn and toss our pics in a mix and see how they do against each other - for fun.

We have seen so many well-respected and helpful members leave or go into obscurity because of how uptight it has all become. It's become an epidemic of sorts, just pushing good people away - people we can learn a lot from.
Yeah, I'm a thorn. Oh well.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

10/17/2006 01:24:30 PM · #59

Originally posted by BradP:

There's no middle ground between strict obedience and a hissy fit? If someone posts an "out-take" inappropriately they can be politely asked to hide it until the voting is over. No one has to have any kind of fit or be called names.

What about the "fun" being taken away from the entrants who've said they find the posting of these types of images a rude distraction? Their feelings count for naught? They won't become discouraged and leave?

The more you argue this way, the more you reinforce my feeling that it's a selfish desire on the part of the few to draw attention to themselves, to the detriment of the overall community experience.

I already suggested a practical way to post almost any photo for comment at almost any time -- if people can't bring themselves to follow such a system, and instead must shout out "Look at my ___ Out-take!" then I think the rule should be enforced.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/17/2006 01:30:02 PM · #60

Originally posted by GeneralE:

The more you argue this way, the more you reinforce my feeling that it's a selfish desire on the part of the few to draw attention to themselves, to the detriment of the overall community experience.

I already suggested a practical way to post almost any photo for comment at almost any time -- if people can't bring themselves to follow such a system, and instead must shout out "Look at my ___ Out-take!" then I think the rule should be enforced.

Thank you. I agree and end my part in this discussion. I believe both sides have been stated very clearly as well as my opinion that you should wait a week and then scream as loud as you like.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

10/17/2006 01:34:38 PM · #61

Originally posted by GeneralE:

... I already suggested a practical way to post almost any photo for comment at almost any time ...

Yep, just put them ==> HERE and with politically correct wording, you can post just about anything, anytime. :D

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

10/17/2006 01:45:03 PM · #62

Originally posted by GeneralE:

What about the "fun" being taken away from the entrants who've said they find the posting of these types of images a rude distraction?

How much of a distraction could it possibly be? I mean, unofficial individual photo threads asking for feedback rarely generate many views, and often what views they DO get are repeat clicks from the same handful of people. Not all of those people vote, and not all will be "influenced" by contaminating their eyeballs with another image . We're certainly not talking about all of the voters being so distracted, probably not even a sizable fraction.

I firmly believe that any perceived negative effect of a non-revealing outtake is probably overblown. I have yet to see anyone propose a practical way to enforce such a rule anyway.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/17/2006 01:46:21 PM · #63

A shot missed by deadline or outtake shouldn't necessarily be hidden away, but the Look at my Outtake subjectline is a touch tacky. Allow a forum for those, and if people take offense, they can simply turn it off, or just don't look in the first place.
What's so wrong with someone wondering how it would have done? I'd be curious and if a venue were in place that allowed these, a lot of learning could be accomplished and for some, self-confidence instilled.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

10/17/2006 01:48:14 PM · #64

Originally posted by BradP:

What's so wrong with someone wondering how it would have done? I'd be curious and if a venue were in place that allowed these, a lot of learning could be accomplished and for some, self-confidence instilled.

*applause*

Entries already have the inherent "distraction" of several hundred other challenge participants shooting specifically for the same topic. How rude. ;-)

Message edited by author 2006-10-17 13:51:50.

alfresco

Nikon D700

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/17/2006 01:53:31 PM · #65

Concurs with Brad. Again.

mist

Canon EOS-60D

10/17/2006 02:04:30 PM · #66

Originally posted by BradP:

There's nothing wrong with that. They just need to wait two minutes until voting finishes. That is, after all, when everyone else finds out how well their shots have done.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/17/2006 02:12:24 PM · #67

Then, after the challenge is over, and everyone has to see the results, look through the thumbs of new challenge, the recent comments page gets flooded with the obligatory congrats comments, not to mention 3,000 self-portraits and 1,800 pet pictures & 694 Macros then oops - look at the time - gotta' go - and the outtakes or missed entries end up lost in the shuffle.
(might be a touch of sarcasm there ;) - I do wish the unofficial challenges had their own comments page, but that suggestion fell on deaf ears)

ETA: (forgot about the macros.) ;)

Message edited by author 2006-10-17 14:24:01.

mist

Canon EOS-60D

10/17/2006 02:16:49 PM · #68

Originally posted by BradP:

Then, after the challenge is over, and everyone has to see the results, look through the thumbs of new challenge, the recent comments page gets flooded with the obligatory congrats comments, not to mention 3,000 self-portraits and 1,800 pet pictures, then oops - look at the time - gotta' go - and the outtakes or missed entries end up lost in the shuffle.
(might be a touch of sarcasm there ;) - I do wish the unofficial challenges had their own comments page, but that suggestion fell on deaf ears)

Well, to be fair, 250 out of 275 challenge entries are largely ignored afterwards, too, so there's no difference. Is that a great situation? No, but it's how it is.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

10/17/2006 02:28:20 PM · #69

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by BradP:
What's so wrong with someone wondering how it would have done? I'd be curious and if a venue were in place that allowed these, a lot of learning could be accomplished and for some, self-confidence instilled.

*applause*

Entries already have the inherent "distraction" of several hundred other challenge participants shooting specifically for the same topic. How rude. ;-)

And some who want two "entries" ... how selfish.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/17/2006 02:31:12 PM · #70

Originally posted by GeneralE:

some who want two "entries" ... how selfish.

Since the same outtakes could be freely posted for opinion after the challenge, that's a silly argument. No score, no placement and no permanent record = no entry.

Message edited by author 2006-10-17 14:31:29.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/17/2006 02:35:12 PM · #71

Selfish?

1 entry
Votes: 278
Views: 478
Aver Vote: 6.000
Comments: 8
Favorites: 1
Wishlist: 0

1 outtake (aka wanna be extra entry)
Votes: N/A
Views: 13
Aver Vote: N/A
Comments: a few at best
Favorites: Possibly a few
Wishlist: N/A

Not even in the same league, especially if a hideable thread is in place for outtakes.

Message edited by author 2006-10-17 14:36:06.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/17/2006 02:52:54 PM · #72

Originally posted by neophyte:

Yeah... and it still no big deal..... I agree with glad2badad.. when you ask what I would've voted you've changed it from a discussion of the photo to a distraction from the official competition IMO.

I can't help but notice you did not wait a week to say that.

Ken

Canon EOS-7D

10/17/2006 02:58:32 PM · #73

Originally posted by BradP:

I think this hideable thread thing is a good idea. If you consider it rude or selfish, don't look.

Getting comments on outtakes can be just as valuable as your actual entry. Even somebody suggesting that you chose the wrong one for entry can help you look at your photography differently. It can be a great way to learn.