Gonna get a D200, maybe I hope....

10/10/2006 10:33:39 AM · #26

I have 2 SB600's with 2 SU-4 Wireless Remote TTL Flash Controller's So far they have worked quite well. But I have been itching to get a SB-800 and this thread has just made it a burning itch. If my wife ever gets around to asking me what I want for my B-day That will be my answer. After she stops laughing. I will say, No Really. She will laugh again then say are you serious? Then I will give her my speech about how it will make the photos of our kids look better etc and she will give in and let me buy it. lol Now I just need to figure out how to get a R1C1 Wireless Close-Up Speedlight System for xmas.

10/10/2006 10:38:21 AM · #27

When I've shot in commander mode and don't want the flash from the on camera flash, I've just put a lens cap in front of it. It worked real well and didn't cost me anything. If doing verticals then just use some tape.

10/10/2006 11:16:43 AM · #28

I use the defuser that comes with the 600. If it doesnt block enough light I tape a piece of paper to it or use black electrical tape.

I just tested the wireless flash with out using the SU-4's must say it is pretty cool. I Couldn't do that with my D-50. which is why I have the SU-4's.

Originally posted by cryan:

hyperfocal

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

10/10/2006 11:32:00 AM · #29

Suggestion.. For the price difference btwn the SB-600 & 800 you could easily get a used SB-80 or SB-26. That would provide most of the features of the SB-800 such as strobe effects, etc. Then you would have another flash that will wirelessly sync with any strobe on manual including studio strobes.

Message edited by author 2006-10-10 11:32:29.

10/10/2006 11:35:38 AM · #30

Ok. now I am in deeper than I wanted to be. Camera is In commander mode. have flashs both set to channel 1 group A they fire when I hit the shutter but it seems like I am getting double flash.

anyone have some basic setting advice for me?

I am shooting around 20 headshots of people tomorrow to be used in a video I am filming. Would like to use wireless if posible. Need to get it working correctly before then.
I think I just need to synch the speed or something. I have no idea. I am totally ignorant to this subject. Now it is time to learn. Fill me with your knowlege people. :-)

10/10/2006 11:48:45 AM · #31

Hyperfocal, you can't use the 26 or the 28 with the newer digital cameras, both the 26 & 28 have higher voltage than the cameras can handle. Bugs, how do you have the flashes set up. You might be able to set them to commander but use a different channel and shoot with both flashes on manual so you can control how much light is used and where its used. Just a suggestion. I haven't used more than one flash so that part of it i really don't know.

10/10/2006 12:15:35 PM · #32

i have them both in wireless mode channel 1 group A the problem I have isn't really amount of light. It is the timing of the flash. seems like I am picking up a secondary flash in the photos. lots of shadows and funky lighting. I would post a photo as example but I am not on the right machine at the moment.

in the commander mode on the camera it has the -3 +3 etc.. would that have something to do with the timing ? like I said I am ignorant. lol

10/10/2006 12:23:01 PM · #33

If you aren't covering the oncamera flash, it will give you some funky lighting. My advise is to set the cameras flash to -3 and then cover it with something, like I said I've used my lens cap. See what happens then, you should only be getting the other two flashes. Let me know.

Carl Zeiss 35mm ZF f/2.0 Distagon T

10/10/2006 12:33:05 PM · #34

I have the defuser on. which dampens it a little but i have alot of natural light bleeding into the room flash probably not even required in this situation . I will try a test again tonight when it is dark.

Originally posted by cryan:

hyperfocal

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

10/10/2006 12:50:32 PM · #35

Originally posted by cryan:

No Nikon flashes made (at least since they went TTL) have too high sync voltages. All the Pro series since the SB-24 have less than 6 volts.

I know that only the SB-600 & 800 speedlights will work iTTL. I was saying that IMO you could get a SB-600 and a older flash unit such as a SB-26, etc for less than the price of a SB-800. Then one would have an iTTL unit (SB-600) for GP photography plus another unit for special stuff like strobe effects, etc. Plus the SB-26 & SB-80 have a bulit-in wireless sync (not commander, but simple sync). Great for throwing light on a background, etc.

virtuamike

Nikon D2X

10/10/2006 01:58:42 PM · #36

The D200 built-in flash has a lot of the wireless commander functionality of the SB-800. I have a pair of SB-600's and use CLS fairly extensively. I bought the SB-600's used, and for the price I paid for them together it was still under what an SB-800 costs new.

You only get 2 groups instead of 3 on the D200 (unless you count the built-in flash, which I guess could be considered a group), and it takes a little longer going through the menus to set everything up. You have the option of assigning each group to TTL, manual, and none, so yes you can make the built-in not contribute to the exposure. No, you don't need to cover the built-in flash up. The other thing I've noticed is that you can't have the flashes too far away from the camera - otherwise you'll run into problems with them not firing (then again we're talking over 30' away without direct line of sight through a crowd of people with significant ambient light).

Then again, things could be different for macro. I only use my flashes for people photography.

I do recommend getting the gels if you're planning on getting the SB-600 instead of the 800. And you're going to lose about 2/3 of a stop which is a fair amount of power, but I don't see it as a huge issue when you're trying to balance exposures in lowlight conditions (the extra power only really comes into play in situations with a lot of ambient). You lose the strobe ability, but I've yet to see a shot where it's been used. You also lose the modeling lamp, but it's not that bright to begin with plus you save more battery life by taking a few shots and checking on LCD rather than trying to use the lamp to preview your setup.

Example of D200 + 2 SB-600's :)

I love the D200. I did end up getting the vertical grip because I do a significant amount of portrait shooting. The D200 is plenty hefty without the grip, and I do take it off when I want to shoot light. A 2nd battery is a must have, and yes you need to get the EN-EL3e.

Message edited by author 2006-10-10 14:00:21.

ShaneBlake

Nikon D7100

10/10/2006 02:38:46 PM · #37

Originally posted by cryan:

As for the Flash, that seems to be your one sticking point. The 600 is a great flash, however the 800 is a must have. Really, i wouldn't lie to you. One of the biggest things about the 800 over the 600 is you will have wireless capability with the 800. You won't get that with the 600. Trust me this is huge.

uh. but this is a lie... ;)

the 600 _will_ give you wireless capability. sure, the 800 gives you more control, but you'll eventually want more than one flash anyway...

i say, get the 600 now and add an 800 later, but the debate rages on...

10/10/2006 02:52:59 PM · #38

Yo man you callin me a liar? Oh boy now this is gonna get ugly. JK. I didn't know that the 600 could be used wirelessly until today however if you are gonna want 2 flashes IMO it would be better to get the 800 have the commander mode built into the flash and learn to use it before getting a second flash. The 800 may be harder to use at first but will give you far more options than the 600. When you are able to get another flash you don't have to learn a more complex system. DOes this make sense to anybody but me?

ShaneBlake

Nikon D7100

10/10/2006 02:57:34 PM · #39

Originally posted by cryan:

Yo man you callin me a liar? Oh boy now this is gonna get ugly. JK.

no... you called yourself a liar when you lied. you liar. ;)

Originally posted by cryan:

I didn't know that the 600 could be used wirelessly until today however if you are gonna want 2 flashes IMO it would be better to get the 800 have the commander mode built into the flash and learn to use it before getting a second flash. The 800 may be harder to use at first but will give you far more options than the 600. When you are able to get another flash you don't have to learn a more complex system. DOes this make sense to anybody but me?

nope. can't learn to use the 800's commander mode until you have another flash, right? might as well learn to use the commander mode on your camera w/ a 600 and enjoy the extra cash, or save it for your next flash... which would be the time to buy the 800

but, of course, it's all in what joe wants and how he learns. you and i are obviously different.

case in point, you are a liar... i am not.

;)

10/10/2006 03:10:36 PM · #40

I guess what i was trying to say is, it might be more benifical to learn the 800 first due to its complexity. For me that is easier. However, I do use the commander mode on the 800 with one flash, so it is possible you just have to go deeper into the controls of the flash and set it up a little different than if it was the main flash. I actually haven't taken the time to use the commander mode in the camera itself. It may be easier to use and set up than what I've been doing.

Nald

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

10/10/2006 03:38:07 PM · #41

I didn't read all the way though this thread but Joe, get the D200, you will not regret it. I love mine.

And I'm on and off the fence on the sb600 - 800 deal as well.

10/10/2006 05:58:35 PM · #42

So I went down to my local Ritz Camera store to hold the D200 and it felt great!! I should be ordering it either tonite or tommorrow as soon as I get all the funds in the right place and take a big deep breath before dropping 1600 dollars on the camera and Mack warranty. Is the warranty a good idea? It seems like it to me. Also while I was down there I was talking to the salesman about the cameras I owned D50 and D100 as well as telling him specifics on the D200 that he was looking up, like exact image size and asked me if I wanted a job! I told him I am also a teacher's assistant and the photo editor at the junior college and he put his name down as a "friend/contact" on the application as well as where to drop off the application and who to talk to specifically at that store. It pays near to nothing but I would get commissions and discounts on gear and really cheap processing. The disount I would get on the D200 would be the same as I can get on buydig.com, but still a nice perk for future purchases. And my current job working rock and roll shows is seasonal and is ending in about a month. Nice little trip to the Camera store :).
But back to the flash discussion. I thank all you guys for your input, and it seems like you can't really go wrong as some people use 800 and are happy and some use 600 and are happy, this to me is a sign that it just comes down to what I think I need. Honestly I don know if I need any of them, but I am getting some anyway, LOL.
I was thinking of getting the the 600 for now atleast. Although I could almost talk myself into getting two 600s which would only be about $80 more than a single 800. Another option I was thinking, is to get the one 600 right now, learn how to use it well enough, and keep an eye out on fredmiranda for an SB-28. That is if I can use that SB-28 to be triggered by the commander mode on the D200. I believe you could since the 28 can also be used as a master flash, does anyone know for sure? I have seen them on sale there for like $75-100. I wouldn't use it on the camera soI wouldn't have to worry about voltage, and it was built to work with a D100 which I also have. And I'll be so busy learning my camera and flash I wouldn't need it right away. Any thoughts on this plan of attack?
A couple other questions, do I need special brackets to hold up the flashes? Can they be mounted on a regular tripod? I have two. And I was also thinking of getting a gary fong lightsphere II. Do people have experience with these and is it worth it ~$50? The gels seem like a good idea too and I'll pick those up. Thanks everyone for helping me spend lots of money :).

I apologize for all spelling mistakes ;p.

ralph

Nikon Z9

10/10/2006 06:09:10 PM · #43

i am very certain the sb28 can NOT be used as a commander

only sb800 & the command module SU-800 can be
(or your camera / limitations apply)

the SB80dx can NOT be used with the cmader(s) but may be triggerd wirelessly (the pretrigger will fire them)

you can trigger other flashes with the sb800 if you use the wired ports

Carl Zeiss 35mm ZF f/2.0 Distagon T

10/10/2006 06:32:20 PM · #44

Originally posted by ralph:

What I would want to do is have the commander on the D200 trigger the sb-28, is that possible?

EDIT: I found this on kenrockwell.com, which is why I thought it could be used as a commander.
What about using the SB-28 as a master flash with the SU-4 wireless trigger?
A preflash is a clever idea Nikon dreamed up for general flash photography. It lets the camera cheat and get a quick idea of what's in front of it an instant before the photo is made. That lets the camera set the exposure even more cleverly.
Unfortunately the SU-4 cordless slave trigger goes bananas when the master flash, like the SB-28 on an F100, does a preflash.
You therefore have to CANCEL this preflash when using the SU-4
You have to do that by putting the SB-28 the Standard TTL (non matrix) mode if you use the SB-28 as master. Of course the Standard TTL mode is not matrix flash and not balanced for fill. Therefore, when using the SU-4 for slaves you are better off using an earlier flash like the SB-23 as camera master since it can work in TTL matrix mode without the preflash. Yes, this is confusing.

Message edited by author 2006-10-10 18:41:22.

virtuamike

Nikon D2X

10/10/2006 07:08:32 PM · #45

Originally posted by cryan:

There isn't much difference in terms of functionality between the SB-600 and SB-800 if you're using the built-in flash on the D200 as the commander. It negates the biggest advantage of the SB-800. Besides, I was never keen on the idea of being stuck with the SB-800 on-camera in commander mode. It's a waste of a light that could be better placed elsewhere.

Other than that you get a few extra accessories (gels, diffuser), about 2/3 of a stop more output, the strobe function, and modeling lamp.

Oh and the SB-800 can be triggered via optical slave. It's handy for studio work but for the price difference between an SB-600 and 800, you could pick up a couple generic optical slaves and pocket a lot of change.

10/10/2006 07:55:22 PM · #46

the sb 600 and i would imagine the 800 also come with a little stand that you can mount it to. the stand has a screw input on the bottom so you can mount it to any standard 1/4 inch tripod bolt. or just stand it on a table or other flat surface. I am not positive the stand comes with the 800..

You will enjoy which ever one you choose ,

But to put my two cents in. I think you should go for the 2 600's You can do more with 2 600's than you can do with 1 800.

I took this shot with 2 600's using my light tent, One was inside bounced off the ceiling of the tent the other was outside to the left the onboard flash was filtered with a defuser and the white material the tent is covered with.

10/10/2006 08:09:50 PM · #47

Originally posted by Bugzeye:

Yeah I am thinking not the sb-800 right now as it seems like virtuamike said one of the main features of the 800 is its command function which I will have. I will have less power output but if a situation calls for it and I know ahead of time. i.e. someone actually pays me for work I can get one then and still keep and eye on other Buy/Sell forums for a good deal.
What about diffusers? lightsphere or omnibounce. I know there is another thread right now for this and I read the article too. But curious of anyones thoughts. About once an hour I freeze and can't believe the money I am about to spend, LOL.

ralph

Nikon Z9

10/10/2006 08:35:37 PM · #48

Originally posted by jdannels:

What I would want to do is have the commander on the D200 trigger the sb-28, is that possible?

from the D200 manual:
Manual: The flash fires at the level selected in the menu
shown at right. Highlight a setting between Full Power
and 1/128 Power (1/ 128 of full power) and press the multi
selector right to return to the Custom Settings menu (at
full power, built-in Speedlight has a Guide Number of
13/42 [m/ft, ISO 100]). icons blink in the control panel
and viewfi nder. No monitor prefl ash is emitted, allowing
the built-in fl ash to function as a master fl ash for optional
slave fl ash units when used with a remote Speedlight
commander such as the SU-4.

---
Note this is not commander mode.....
so yes you can use this to trigger many other flashes,but you can not mix sb800/600 in commander slave mode with flashes in SU-4 mode ...

Message edited by author 2006-10-10 20:37:49.