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10/02/2006 08:21:23 PM · #1 |
I have been pondering this question for a few months.
Actually, I think I have thought about this before and talked about it with members somewhere but I haven't posed the question in an open forum.
My question in full is....Do people come to DPC to learn about photography, new techniques, new styles and then to appreciate them and even expand themselves OR do people come here with set, unmovable opinions (whether based on real photographic experience or just opinion) that they foist upon the rest of the community?
I guess the reason I ask this is, I read a lot of the forums posts...a lot. I comment on these posts very rarely. I am more of a study of human nature. I read comments left on the various photographs of a lot of people. I read the debates as well.
I do get a sense that there is some open and honest interest among many photographers that come here in expanding there skill sets and their understanding of photography in general.
But...(you just knew this was coming) I also see people who come here and..from their first vote, their first public discussion...make decisions on photo quality and general photographic technical discussion with barely a grasp of basic technique or history. Their portfolios are modest in variety and quality, their background is limited but yet their opinions are so firmly rooted that I wonder if they have any intention of opening their eyes to the range and depth of photographic technique or technical understanding.
So, whats the general feeling. Do you sense people have the kind of open mindedness that would be a good thing on an entry level site like this ...or...do you feel that people come here simply to impose their will?
Discuss......
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10/02/2006 08:25:13 PM · #2 |
The 30 day self portrait challenge was a wonderful learning experience for those who chose to make it one.
I do try to learn. I hope no one is offended by my comments, as I am one of those with a very modest (and that's generous by some standards) portfolio. I'm also hoping my opinions aren't "set" and that I try to see different techniques and different approaches as "valid".
I rarely pick the winners in any competition and quite often my favorites finish below 20th position. This could, of course, be a sign I have no clue. :-)
Message edited by author 2006-10-02 21:46:41. |
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10/02/2006 08:26:37 PM · #3 |
Some people are so blatantly wrapped up in themselves that no matter what you do...they will never change. Even if they admit to coming here to learn....they never do.
Others come here just to have fun...and end up learning in the process.
Others do come here to learn and are openminded enough to absorb the lessons that are on offer here...both theoretically and practically.
Others come here to teach...to share their knowledge and skills with others.
The world is made up of many different people. This site is no exception.
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10/02/2006 08:36:09 PM · #4 |
I think people mostly try to learn.
I also think some people don't have lives and come here to be seen.
I also think some people think they are good in photography and come here to show their stuff, and are quickly kicked in the privates.
I also think, and some on this site just don't know how.
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10/02/2006 08:45:28 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by hokie:
My question in full is....Do people come to DPC to learn about photography, new techniques, new styles and then to appreciate them and even expand themselves |
I come to learn. I knew NOTHING about SLR's, lighting techiques, f-stop, shutter speed, etc before joining. Even though I'm still a 'beginner' compared to most of the photographers here, I try and pass on what I have learned, no matter how little it might be.
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10/02/2006 08:46:16 PM · #6 |
My first photo here:
One from a couple days ago:
I came to learn and I think I've done that. And I have tons of fun while I'm at it.
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10/02/2006 08:48:13 PM · #7 |
Those who can do.
Those who cannot become critics.
Seriously, I don't think that being a world class photographer is necessary to offer criticism. You don't know what kind of background someone has, only what they've chosen to show you here.
I've learned a lot since I joined up in April. I'm not world class or anything, but I'd like to think my opinion, when given, counts for something instead of getting dismissed by people who think that because I have a mediocre portfolio and no ribbons that I must not have a clue. Besides being a photographer, I'm also a human being, with tastes regarding art, just like the masses to whom we are so often trying to market ourselves as artists. They don't really have a clue either, but they sure know whether or not they like your photo.
Message edited by author 2006-10-02 20:51:02.
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10/02/2006 08:48:19 PM · #8 |
I joined DPChallenge for the photo challenges,
but very soon, found that I'm not worthy as compared to the rest of the competition, and started learning (a lot!)
add... Today, while I'm still learning (how can you stop, anyway?), I'm here mostly for the company - it's like walking into a mom & pop's little cafe/restaurant where you see friends and strangers having a good time (or debating it out) in their own corners (threads).
What a jolly place :) |
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10/02/2006 08:56:36 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by hokie:
My question in full is....Do people come to DPC to learn about photography, new techniques, new styles and then to appreciate them and even expand themselves OR do people come here with set, unmovable opinions (whether based on real photographic experience or just opinion) that they foist upon the rest of the community? |
Photographers, and all artists for that matter, tend to be highly opinionated and pig headed. (No me, of course)
Basically people come here to learn new things and associated with people with a like minded interest in photography. (Not me, though, I'm here looking for intelligient yet loose women that like photography and aren't too picky)
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10/02/2006 09:00:17 PM · #10 |
I haven't seen much open mindedness in the voting as I posted in another thread. One of my challenges currently has 5 comments of which 3 state (in their own words) they voted low because it is not their 'thing'. You also have to look at the profiles of those who leave 'dumb' comments on your photos and see if they actually submit anything or if they just click through photos. Too bad you cannot bar those who do not have x number of submissions from voting on your work.
To answer the question I think there is a mix of people trying to get better with an open mind and those that dont. Just like everything else in life it is a hit or miss thing. |
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10/02/2006 09:06:56 PM · #11 |
Personally I came here to learn, the challenges are secondary. I have learned alot in my first year here. And I hope that I can learn alot more in the next year. I have started on a path to fulfill a lifelong dream of doing photojournalism. 1 year ago I didnt have the confidence or the skills to pull off any of those things. Now I am freelancing and getting weekly assignments from the newspaper. My first challenge was a stroke of luck. My others I have learned from, some have been forced from WPL. But all along I have learned. I will link to the last assignment I did for the paper. There is no way that a year ago I could have even imagined being able to do this. Let alone do it well enough to get a pat on the back from the sports editor for the shots I get for him.
football
I owe alot of what I am now doing with photography to DPC and its members. Thats why even though I dont do alot of challenges anymore, dont really need portfolio space as I have 2 websites with plenty of space, but I'll support the site with my $25 to show my appreciation for what the community as a whole has helped me with.
MattO
Message edited by author 2006-10-02 21:09:38.
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10/02/2006 09:07:07 PM · #12 |
i know i came here to learn and judging by my first submission, i think i have learnt a little.;p
I have been trying to stay away from the forums lately because of the way they have been becoming. I remember when I first started here, everyone was so happy and helpful. Those were the good ol days, and yes before you get your panties in a twist there are still some helpful people on here but it has definately changed.
This really is a great site for learning, if you get past all the bull#$*.
I say we all go back to how it was in the beginning, and if you werent here then, go read some old posts. It will surely put a smile on your dial
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10/02/2006 09:09:50 PM · #13 |
| i came here to learn. if someone asks a question, and i think i know the answer, i respond. When someone says something i dont hink was warranted, or correct, or whatever, i ignore it. because i'm here to learn. :D |
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10/02/2006 09:12:12 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by hokie:
on an entry level site like this |
This is an entry level site?
I think there is a well blended mix of all the levels between a simple p/s photog who does it for fun and the pro who makes a living at it here. Each of us gleans what we want, participates where we feel comfortable, offers advice when we feel comfortable. I have found that it is just as much your approach to the site that determines your response from the site as anything else. If you want to learn, this is the place to be. If you want to be pushy, this is the place to push/be pushed in return. And even from these exchanges we can all learn someting. |
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10/02/2006 09:15:07 PM · #15 |
I have opinions, and yet I am also capable of learning. It's this thing I have, kinda like being ambidextrous.
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10/02/2006 09:24:14 PM · #16 |
I originally stumbled on the site while looking for sites to post my work for opinions. so I signed up in March 2005, and basically headed most of my images to the Ritz gallery. Got very little feedback from there, so I came back to this one. I soon learned that my hot shot opinions of myself were extremely lacking in any kind of basis. So I started doing challenges, getting my comeuppance every time, nearly left at least a dozen times, but there were so many helpful folks, and so much support, and many e-mails every time I said I was leaving, that I stayed. It soon became a fabulous learning tool, though I still like doing my own style, whatever that may be, even if it doesn't place well. I do apply much that I have learned, and now I am learning a lot about Photoshop CS2.
I do make a lot of comments, good bad or indifferent. Actually I write a lot of books on my comments. So far not too many have called me a blowhard that doesn't know my a-- from my elbow (enter fotoman Forever calling me an a--hole). I also look at my portfolio as a learning tool for others to look at. I try to put as much info on my images as possible, in case people want to try camera settings and are not sure where to begin. So I have become sort of a teacher, though probably a bad one, but it is fun anyway and I don't believe I am doing unreversable damage to those who look at my pics for guidance. If I am wrong, there is so many others to look at to correct whatever you have done wrong in your technique or settings. |
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10/02/2006 09:26:41 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
I think there is a well blended mix of all the levels between a simple p/s photog who does it for fun and the pro who makes a living at it here. Each of us gleans what we want, participates where we feel comfortable, offers advice when we feel comfortable. I have found that it is just as much your approach to the site that determines your response from the site as anything else. If you want to learn, this is the place to be. If you want to be pushy, this is the place to push/be pushed in return. And even from these exchanges we can all learn someting. |
I would say this site is entry level, yes. That does not mean it doesn't have a mix of skill levels. All sites do, from entry to advanced.
What makes this site entry level? The desire to keep the accessability easy for the beginner. The site is designed for people to get in and get shooting and competing as fast as possible. I like the fact DPC is photography oriented rather than technical oriented. I actually think it encourages people to shoot more. I am at some really advanced sites where many of the people there rarely just shoot for the hell of it anymore.
I like the fact that the site is easy access. I have a relatively good comfort level with certain types of photography but there are many other styles and techniques I have to learn and practice. I still need a good learning site that allows me to experiment.
Post script...I use some techniques and experiment and enter things that unfortunately dont always score well. To learn here you MUST develop thick skin and be willing to enter things that break some basic rules to see the results. :-D
Message edited by author 2006-10-02 21:30:11. |
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10/02/2006 09:30:22 PM · #18 |
Yes, this subject has been slightly overworked in these forums. Personally, I am here to learn and then to compete. I have been a succesful commercial photographer but truly the art of photography has so many avenues that it is simply silly to assume that any one member here or anywhere can actually consider themselves complete.
Many do come here to learn, but it takes them a while to comprehend that not many are willing to gently lead them to realize their aim. It seems that the competing frenzy outshines all else. So, learning is open to those who are willing to study and emulate our finer images and techniques. It is more self education but consider that the dpc archives are an invaluable tool. Yet, many newcomers do not avail themselves, instead they want to compete and reinvent the wheel in the hopes that they will evolve a unique entity. This is possible but more like lighting hitting a coke bottle. There is first an obligation to learn the basics and the tools required.
The mix is very wholesome. Some come to show us their scintillating work and do not care to mingle. They receive their due praise and are concerned only with themselves. This is a very small number.
You then have those that are finding themselves. Their convictions are not totally grounded. This groups suffer more from technical expertise, for they seem to have a good eye along with some very nice concepts. Not sure themselves, they question the validity of comments, like how can somebody else know what they (the photographer) seek.
Then you have a few whose main weakness is their conceit. Your image is never complete and they will tell you where you failed and what you should have done. Upon examining their ports you find the same faults they expound, yet some do have an attractive collection.
Then you have the larger number that have no chip on their shoulders. These come in all classes of experience. They show a humble side and they are ready and willing to learn and teach.
There is also the very small number of rude commentators. These people seek to make your life as miserable as theirs.
Last but not least, are the growing members in the neophite class. Some integrate themselves quietly, do their homework and soon begin to produce some very nice images. Others will forever be plagued with below 5 voting averages because they give no higher scores then they get. This is a hard place to leave because their attitude is not in learning.
I have said elsewhere that in order to learn you must first appreciate the works of others. I make it a point to comment on the top 20 images because here is the cream of all challenges and the best lessons to learn.
There is also the "wow" factor group. No "wow", no good score. All other images are merely a 6 to them. Only the "wow" image receives their 7, 8, 9 and tens. First of all, not all images lend themselves to the "wow" factor. But they will vote the "wow" higher then a true work of photographic art.
Indeed, the motley mix creates the collective group which fluctuates. I am and always remain a student of human nature. I am an artist but before that I am only a single and tiny voice but with no intention of imposing my views as law. I am always ready to reach out and yes, I do get a kick out of watching the works of others. So, it is this mixed group that combines to make themselves felt. It would be a better world if each of us consider ourselves a piece of the mosaic rather then the jewel crown. And for better or for worse this is usually the end result of any group. I still accept it, for I tend to focus more on the positive. All groups carry the heavy baggage, but note that this baggage is very transient. After a while they just drop out of sight. It is always present for new comers come to fill the void, but look around and you will see many fixed beacons and many wonderful members along with a high number of wonderful s/c. Welcome to DPC!
Message edited by author 2006-10-02 21:34:47. |
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10/02/2006 09:30:33 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by hokie:
So, whats the general feeling. Do you sense people have the kind of open mindedness that would be a good thing on an entry level site like this ...or...do you feel that people come here simply to impose their will?
Discuss...... |
I'm hoping I am the former :-) I do see what you are saying and I think the site has both kinds of members (both experienced and novice level).
DPC is a community of 50,622 users. With that kind of number you get all kinds of folks.
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10/02/2006 09:32:25 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
I'm hoping I am the former :-) I do see what you are saying and I think the site has both kinds of members (both experienced and novice level).
DPC is a community of 50,622 users. With that kind of number you get all kinds of folks. |
My question was aimed really at what the people responding felt more than any actual reality :-D
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10/02/2006 09:38:09 PM · #21 |
| I am a relative novice who has learned tons here. I came here to play and in the process I have learned so much. From how to use my camera and what all the settings mean to how to use my Photoshop software (layers was a revelation) to how to go about setting up a shot and seeing potential shots in every day life. On top of all that I have made some pretty good friends that I will hopefully someday get a chance to meet (preferably on their home turf - Columbus can be boring). I am still here to play (and I play alot) and I am still here to learn (and I am learning alot) and maybe someday I can impose my will on the whole DPC community!!! Yee hah!!! |
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10/02/2006 09:39:16 PM · #22 |
I have many mixed emotions concerning this site. I have made many friends here that I would not have made if I didn't join in the forums and scope out all the wonderous images here.
I have learned that I have pretty strong shoulders also.
I have learned that there are some people who are always going to believe what they want to believe and some are so open-minded, it's breathtaking.
So, hang in there. Don't judge people on the amount of photos they have or don't have. (My portfolio has been stocked and emptied so many times, I couldn't guess how many...)
We are all on this earth to learn. And this site has made me realize that no matter where we live, we are all basically the same.
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10/02/2006 09:40:33 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by hokie:
My question was aimed really at what the people responding felt more than any actual reality :-D |
Ahhh, and possibly a bit rhetorical ;-)
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10/02/2006 09:41:18 PM · #24 |
I first and foremost am here to learn, which I guess is why I avoid the social threads. I would love to have mroe 'street cred' on the site but simply don't have the time to do so. This site faciliates my learning in the following fasions:
- the variety of answers to forum questions
- the learning threads (I tend to follow these without contributing)
- links to other dead useful web pages
- commenting for the critique club
- the challenges forcing me to try to put in practise all Ithink I have learnt.
- the comments I in turn recieve when I submit
- I occasionally pick a bit of
After a year with the site I remain as amazed as when I first joined by the depth of photography knowledge of the users of this site, and their willingness to share it. I guess I don't share to the same extent because I remain intimidated. I do of course bring my own opinions but maybe others learn from those.
When Bear_Music or DrAchoo post they are either sharing their technical knowledge or their opinion; in both cases I usually learn something.
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10/02/2006 09:52:56 PM · #25 |
I like the competition (as long as it stays fair and friendly.) I like the honest feedback I get on my photos. I like the forums, and find them to be occasionally very helpful, and frequently entertaining. I like the feeling of community on dpc. I like looking at all the great photos on this site. Learning to me is secondary to these other things, but I have also learned much.
Message edited by author 2006-10-02 21:54:38. |
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