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09/22/2006 06:40:14 AM · #1 |
Hi
I have a huge Project Planned . I just know HTML that too using Dreamweaver.I just wanted to know what other languages should i learn ( I know there isn't a minimum requirement of web designing language to build a web site) so that i make a reasonably good web site.
I know the post may sound bit vague but Project is not a business project but a site to give information on certain topic.
I can simply build using HTML but just to give it more decent layout and look i felt i should use more than HTML.
Concept of this site is to answer question of young member of my community about our religon. We decided instead like in past where we accept our young members to read religous scriprtures without asking question they would get lot more information on this site.
I can make it using HTML but feel it will not look great. |
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09/22/2006 07:39:55 AM · #2 |
html has progressed to xhtml and css. This will make your site easier to build, more updateable quicker, faster to load, accessible to partially sighted, and more google friendly.
best book isweb standards
Message edited by author 2006-09-22 07:40:12.
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09/22/2006 08:13:05 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by alexsaberi:
html has progressed to xhtml and css. This will make your site easier to build, more updateable quicker, faster to load, accessible to partially sighted, and more google friendly.
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CSS is definitely something to look into, which makes it easier to change the look (presentation) of your site without editting all of your X/HTML files. Without having any idea what you want, that's the only thing I can think of.
You can achieve all of the stated bennefits of XHTML in this paragraph though by using HTML and good coding practices (XHTML just makes some of these practices mandatory); check your site using the W3 validators (//validator.w3.org), and make sure that the site is accessible and intelligible without images, scripting, or plug-ins if you want people who are disabled in certain ways to be able to use it.
Just remember, if you use XHTML 1.1, you're alienating a large portion of the web since MicroSoft still (after seven years) doesn't support XHTML in its web browsers. There are work-arounds for this, just as there are for some "quirks" in its CSS rendering. Basically, if you want to do anything complex with layout, you're going to need to check in several different web browsers and probably curse a bit.
[editted to add]
The real benefits of XHTML are that it's more logical than HTML, making it easier to manipulate with automated tools (standard XML parsers, XSLT). Its modularity also allows one to utilize other languages like MathML (for mathematical notations).
Message edited by author 2006-09-22 08:17:01. |
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09/22/2006 08:18:25 AM · #4 |
Thanks for the help
any more tips |
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09/22/2006 08:29:06 AM · #5 |
You don't say exactly what you want to do, so being specific is hard, but -
www.w3.org will give you a good grounding in most web technologies, though some of the information is hidden and/or abstractly presented.
(x)html, css, and some javascript for validation of forms are useful things to know.
If you're considering a very large project, then you might want to look into the "back end" a bit more, this covers things like ASP (generally for IIS/windows based web servers) or PHP (generally for Apache/Linux based web servers) that can dynamically present pages to the users depending on various parameters. This then links into back end databases that can be used to hold various information and even page text. |
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09/22/2006 08:39:01 AM · #6 |
| I just wanted advice that what language should i learn in order to make this web site. I know only HTML |
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09/22/2006 08:48:33 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by mist:
and some javascript for validation of forms are useful things to know.
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Just make sure you don't *rely* on javascript for validation of forms--*never* trust the client (web browser/user agent) to do what you expected it to. The user could have javascript off (in which case the validation wouldn't run), or may have done something more malicious. Always perform a sanity-check on the server.
With that warning, yes, client-side validation is useful to alert well-meaning users of mistakes, especially in the case of poorly designed forms that don't tell you what information you actually need to submit, or what format to submit it in (pay attention to your interface, and make sure things are clear; and remember, if you're requiring a phone number, not everyone has a phone number that matches 3+3+4 and a country-code of 1). Sorry for falling into a bit of a rant there. Check input server-side!
[editted to bring this back on topic]
... so, if you're doing stuff with forms, learn a server-side language. I have no idea what you have available, but PHP, Perl and Java (J2EE) are probably the most common low-cost options. You can write CGI scripts (stuff run by the web-server, which could be used to verify input, update/store data, do whatever) in any language pretty much though so it's wide-open ...
I'd suggest looking around for existing software packages that might do whatever it is you're looking for if possible unless you really want to learn a programming language and make sure your data isn't too important because if you've never programmed before you're probably going to have security problems.
Again, as was stated, none of this may apply to whatever you have in mind. Or it could be spot-on. "Languages to learn to make a web-site" is pretty broad. If you just want something that people can read, without providing feedback, none of the stuff to do with form validation or server-side scripting is important.
Message edited by author 2006-09-22 08:55:12. |
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09/22/2006 08:51:45 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by m:
Check input server-side! |
Yes, absolutely do that too. You should never put user input directly into anything, anyhow. I was advocating client side validation in general, just because it can sometimes be handy.
It's nice, for example, as a user, not to have to wait for a server round-trip to be told "please fill in field x".
Originally posted by General:
I just wanted advice that what language should i learn in order to make this web site. I know only HTML |
And you have recieved it, in abundance.
Message edited by author 2006-09-22 08:52:15. |
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09/22/2006 08:54:49 AM · #9 |
Thanks Everyone
Ya i have recieved in abudance |
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09/22/2006 11:25:52 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by alexsaberi:
html has progressed to xhtml and css. This will make your site easier to build, more updateable quicker, faster to load, accessible to partially sighted, and more google friendly.
best book isweb standards |
That's what they claim. But since very few people are using browsers that perfectly implement a lot of CSS, etc. Often you'll find yourself spending just as much time if not more dealing with such quirks.
*lol*
Sorta like how computers were promised to herald the paperless office. Instead, management just decided they wanted even more documents created and printed for them.
As for languages. CSS is good to get into. You'll need at least a rudimentary understanding of JavaScript. Likewise, most sights today need to be dynamic and the real strength of sites usually comes when they are tied to data. Here you have a wide choice from PHP to Microsoft's .NET. I'd also recommend you check out Adobe's (formerly Macromedia's) ColdFusion. It's especially good if you want to build something quickly.
Flash has also come a long way from the days that it was merely an animation tool. Might be worth your time going that way. (And to those who think Flash is just a gimmick for animation...our company has done some significantly advanced systems in Flash. Full blown major applications.)
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09/22/2006 11:41:35 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by alexsaberi:
html has progressed to xhtml and css. This will make your site easier to build, more updateable quicker, faster to load, accessible to partially sighted, and more google friendly.
best book isweb standards |
That's what they claim. But since very few people are using browsers that perfectly implement a lot of CSS, etc. Often you'll find yourself spending just as much time if not more dealing with such quirks.
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Well it does cover most browsers. If you are talking about NS 4. Then u turn off styles, and the page is readable. Other quirks for old IE are easily fixed. Anyway that book deals with all scenarios.
CSS is the way forward. You should definitly learn that.
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09/22/2006 01:47:58 PM · #12 |
My point with CSS is that you are often forced to code twice, yes...even for the latest versions of IE & Firefox, let alone adding Apple's Safari into the mix.
As all have their quirks especially for certain actions. And numerous other little eccentricities.
That said, yes, you need to be familiar with CSS. But it sure would be nice if all browser participants actually adhered correctly and uniformly.
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09/22/2006 02:00:04 PM · #13 |
CSS for sure. Web standards for sure. Browser quirks and workarounds.
Also suggest learning Flash if your project is to have any multimedia content (e.g. animation, video, or music).
Consider web graphics prep software (e.g. Image Ready (ships w/ Photoshop) or Fireworks (from Macromedia (now Adobe))).
Finally, learn where you can find free web-based resources to help. There are a zillion sites offering code snippets, templates and coding examples for most desigh patterns.
Message edited by author 2006-09-22 14:01:19. |
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09/22/2006 02:04:12 PM · #14 |
I dont think i can ever thank enough for the help i get here.
I hope some day i can some how repay DP Challenge and it's members. |
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09/22/2006 04:10:27 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:
CSS for sure. Web standards for sure. Browser quirks and workarounds.
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//www.webdevout.net/browser_support.php#css
Quick table showing how little of CSS is supported in some cases.
Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:
Also suggest learning Flash if your project is to have any multimedia content (e.g. animation, video, or music). |
Flash is over-rated; there's nothing it can do that you can't do in a more accessible, open, and standard way. Just take a look at //games.funnygames.nl/lemmings/index.html |
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09/22/2006 04:41:22 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by m:
Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:
Also suggest learning Flash if your project is to have any multimedia content (e.g. animation, video, or music). |
Flash is over-rated; there's nothing it can do that you can't do in a more accessible, open, and standard way. Just take a look at //games.funnygames.nl/lemmings/index.html |
That link doesn't seem to work for me. I tried it in Firefox 1.5 and also IE 6. In IE 6 the loading bar never moved. In Firefox 1.5 the bar moved to the middle and then nothing. Maybe it's still loading but I don't know since I don't get any percentage or anything else telling me it's doing something. |
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09/22/2006 04:49:22 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by yanko:
That link doesn't seem to work for me. I tried it in Firefox 1.5 and also IE 6. In IE 6 the loading bar never moved. In Firefox 1.5 the bar moved to the middle and then nothing. Maybe it's still loading but I don't know since I don't get any percentage or anything else telling me it's doing something. |
Odd. I'm using Firefox 1.5 (Firefox 1.5.0.2 Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.2) Gecko/20060417 Firefox/1.5.0.2) and it works fine; friend was playing it on that weird Gecko-based social browser too. I'm curious if the javascript console says anything useful (I've yet to hear anybody have problems with it). Are you sure it wasn't a temporary connection issue as it prefetched stuff?
edit: flock, that's what the weird browser was called.
Message edited by author 2006-09-22 16:50:52. |
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09/22/2006 04:54:33 PM · #18 |
that link works for me. Man I love that game. Is that really only written in javascript? That's sweet.
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09/22/2006 05:28:28 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by General:
Concept of this site is to answer question of young member of my community about our religon. We decided instead like in past where we accept our young members to read religous scriprtures without asking question they would get lot more information on this site. |
Have you thought about installing Wiki software on your site and taking that approach instead (similar to //www.wikipedia.org )
//www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki |
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09/22/2006 06:55:33 PM · #20 |
Actually, Flash is quite under-rated. Yes, everyone is now talking about Ruby-on-Rails, AJAX, etc. But a lot of the stuff that they're just now doing, I've been doing for a few years now with Flash.
3+ yrs ago we delivered drag-n-drop GUI interfaces to our client along with non-refreshing pages that responded to user requests.
I am sure you think Flash is solely for animations and cute little games. It just shows that you know very little what Flash is potentially capable of.
That said, of all the systems I've worked with, Flash is one of the best for mobile devices.
Every technology has it's advantages and dis-advantages. Ironically, I never have to reboot my paper. But I do have to sharpen my pencil. Then again, I never have to sharpen my printer.
One of the most important aspects of the web world is knowing what you need and what will allow you to implement that need in the most economical way. |
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09/22/2006 06:59:34 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Actually, Flash is quite under-rated. Yes, everyone is now talking about Ruby-on-Rails, AJAX, etc. But a lot of the stuff that they're just now doing, I've been doing for a few years now with Flash.
3+ yrs ago we delivered drag-n-drop GUI interfaces to our client along with non-refreshing pages that responded to user requests. |
What IDE do you use? |
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09/22/2006 07:09:05 PM · #22 |
We started with Macromedia Flash 6.0 (might have even been 5.0). Yes, Macromedia/Adobe's tools left and still leave a few things to be desired.
And if I could go back to late 2003 oh the things I'd make sure we'd have done differently. *lol*
But I doubt you'll ever find a programmer who when looking back a year would not have done things differently. ;)
BTW...cute little game (Lemmings)...that said. Had it been made in Flash, I could scale it nicely on my laptop's 1920x1600 resolution screen. |
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09/22/2006 08:34:58 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by General:
Concept of this site is to answer question of young member of my community about our religon. We decided instead like in past where we accept our young members to read religous scriprtures without asking question they would get lot more information on this site. |
Have you thought about installing Wiki software on your site and taking that approach instead (similar to //www.wikipedia.org )
//www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki |
I find above mentioned concept very interesting but it is not great for my project as 99% of information for web site would come from a Scholor who has researched for a long time and has created long list of Question and Answers |
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09/23/2006 12:37:51 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Actually, Flash is quite under-rated. Yes, everyone is now talking about Ruby-on-Rails, AJAX, etc. But a lot of the stuff that they're just now doing, I've been doing for a few years now with Flash.
3+ yrs ago we delivered drag-n-drop GUI interfaces to our client along with non-refreshing pages that responded to user requests.
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Originally posted by theSaj:
I am sure you think Flash is solely for animations and cute little games. It just shows that you know very little what Flash is potentially capable of.
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Originally posted by theSaj:
BTW...cute little game (Lemmings)...that said. Had it been made in Flash, I could scale it nicely on my laptop's 1920x1600 resolution screen.
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And it wouldn't be playable on most of the computers I use. Find me something that will play it on PPC Linux (my desktop) and I might concede that it has more value than I give it credit.
(Find me a libre player that plays recent versions of the format, and not only will I be surprised, I'll install it post-haste).
(Also, you really don't want to know my opinion on what Flash is really for; suffice it to say that, maybe 8 years ago it had a more noble reason to exist, but I hold that there's no reason to create web sites that are flash-centric anymore). |
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09/27/2006 01:31:12 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by m:
Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:
CSS for sure. Web standards for sure. Browser quirks and workarounds.
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//www.webdevout.net/browser_support.php#css
Quick table showing how little of CSS is supported in some cases.
Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:
Also suggest learning Flash if your project is to have any multimedia content (e.g. animation, video, or music). |
Flash is over-rated; there's nothing it can do that you can't do in a more accessible, open, and standard way. Just take a look at //games.funnygames.nl/lemmings/index.html |
Disagree that Flash is over-rated. You point to the DHTML game as an example ... I won't express an opinion about the game but the DHTML implementation is fairly primative. Could have been so much better and with so much better performance in Flash. Just my opinion. |
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