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08/22/2006 11:20:51 AM · #1 |
Well, I scheduled a photo shoot last night with a model I got in contact with through Model Mayhem. She was in my area, although she said she is moving to Florida on Thursday, so she wanted to schedule the shoot quickly. I adjusted my schedule to make it happen last night. In order for me to do a shoot in my house, I have to move almost all of the furniture out of my living room, set up my backdrop and lights, clean up the place, and give money to my wife so she can take the kids out for a couple hours (my wife is VERY understanding of such things--I really love her!). In other words, setting up a shoot is NOT an easy task for me!
The model in question only conversed with me through email, and she sent several to me indicating how much she was looking forward to the shoot. I went over the details of what I was looking for, and she thought everything sounded great. From my initial email to her, I indicated this would be TFCD. Her portfolio pix on MM were VERY amateur, so I could see why she would be so excited to get some decent shots in her port. In exchange for a CD, she agreed to sign a model release so I could use the pictures for stock. The day of the shoot (yesterday), she sent one last email confirming we were all set, and how much she was looking forward to this. I replied by enthusiastically stating that I was all set, and I was looking forward to this as well.
The result? She never showed. No show, no call, no email--nothing. I realize now I made several rookie mistakes here, but I am SO pissed off over this. It makes me want to only work with models that I know personally (which is all I have done so far, to good results).
I posted in the stock forum about having any luck with MM models for stock, but I guess my question in general is, what steps can you take to better guarantee a model will show up? The forums over on MM are FULL of photographers ranting about getting stiffed by models who flaked on them, but I had every indication that this girl was going to show up. Maybe she gets some perverse pleasure out of setting up shoots and then not showing up, but this really sucks!
Sorry for such a long rant. Thanks for listening. Any words of wisdom will be gladly accepted.
-Don |
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08/22/2006 11:32:26 AM · #2 |
Im not sure if its doable or not since I havent spent any time on the model sites but if you have a bio on the site perhaps you can simple add to your bio stating the model in question was a no show for you. Kind of like bad feedback on e-bay. Conversely make sure to put in a good word in your bio for those you do work with.
Something else I would have done if I were in your shoes would have been (if at all possible of course) to do a casual outdoor shoot so you wouldnt have to rearrange your whole house. At least for a model you have never worked with. Then if they were a no show you would have just had a little drive time lost and perhaps if the location was cool you could have gotten some nice shots anyway without her.
I would be leary of taking the time to "prepare" my home for a shoot, especially for someone I had never worked with.....and knowing she was moving.
Just some thoughts from a newbie, take em for what they are worth. |
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08/22/2006 11:32:28 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by Pixl Mastr WannaB:
The result? She never showed. No show, no call, no email--nothing. I realize now I made several rookie mistakes here, but I am SO pissed off over this. It makes me want to only work with models that I know personally (which is all I have done so far, to good results).
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Happens quite often to me. It will happen as long as you are working with amateurs.
Originally posted by Pixl Mastr WannaB:
I posted in the stock forum about having any luck with MM models for stock, but I guess my question in general is, what steps can you take to better guarantee a model will show up?
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Work with experienced models with profressional attitudes. This will cost you though.
Originally posted by Pixl Mastr WannaB:
The forums over on MM are FULL of photographers ranting about getting stiffed by models who flaked on them, but I had every indication that this girl was going to show up. Maybe she gets some perverse pleasure out of setting up shoots and then not showing up, but this really sucks!
Sorry for such a long rant. Thanks for listening. Any words of wisdom will be gladly accepted.
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I doubt she took any pleasure in it. More than likely, she got nervous about it or something came up. I can't tell you how many photo shoots I've had to reschedule because the model got too drunk the night before.
Anyway, don't let this discourage you too much, keep trying. Not all your models will be the same.
Message edited by author 2006-08-22 11:34:22.
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08/22/2006 11:35:46 AM · #4 |
i am sorry dude. what "rookie mistakes" did you make? Seems like you did it all well and fine by me. Your family does sound very undestanding, so at least you can take that away from the experience. Did you photograph your wife and kids (since everything was setup) when they returned or just stew over an open brew?
i guess that is one reason why people work with more experienced models..But to give up on TFCD and inexperienced models where the back and forth might be a learning time for both, would be a little premature. If this happens 2 or 3 more times, then maybe it isn't meant to be...
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08/22/2006 11:38:45 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Anyway, don't let this discourage you too much, keep trying. Not all your models will be the same. |
Thanks. I needed to hear that, especially from someone like you who has worked with a lot of models--much appreciated. I'm not about to give up by any stretch. On a good note, once my wife and kids came back home, I still had all of my stuff set up so I took a bunch of good shots of my kids. They'll probably sell better on my stock sites anyway. :o)
That only makes me feel slightly better, though... |
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08/22/2006 11:42:38 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Pixl Mastr WannaB:
I took a bunch of good shots of my kids. They'll probably sell better on my stock sites anyway. :o)
That only makes me feel slightly better, though... |
Hey.. that is a VERY awesome thing that you got to do. I mean, I know it does not diminish at all the frustration of a no-show model. But maybe it actually turned out better in the end - pictures of your kids will be able to be treasured like no other photo would. |
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08/22/2006 11:42:59 AM · #7 |
| Cutter--we posted at the same time. I answered your question before I knew you asked it! As far as a rookie mistake, I guess the main one is not getting her phone number. I should have insisted on it before hand, but I didn't want to push too much since she didn't know me and I didn't want to come across as creepy or too invasive. Also, she asked if a friend could come along (female) as she needed a ride, and I said that wasn't a problem. I'm not crazy about models bringing escorts, but I can certainly understand where they're coming from. I guess this was a "live and learn" moment. |
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08/22/2006 11:47:04 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by Pixl Mastr WannaB:
Thanks. I needed to hear that, especially from someone like you who has worked with a lot of models--much appreciated. I'm not about to give up by any stretch. On a good note, once my wife and kids came back home, I still had all of my stuff set up so I took a bunch of good shots of my kids. They'll probably sell better on my stock sites anyway. :o)
That only makes me feel slightly better, though... |
You're welcome.
FWIW, I've found a few models that I like to work with through trial and error. I'm most likely to call on them if I need to get a shot done.
I still recruit new models though and still go through the same trial and error with them. It can be a royal pain in the butt, but worth it if you find a good model that will work with you.
One of my favorite models, Jahara, has been doing some recruiting for me. She's got me set up to do a shoot with a really hot brunette in the very near future. It pays to become a friend with your models when you are working with amateurs.
Edit: I met Jahara on myspace... a lot of potential on that site :-)
Message edited by author 2006-08-22 11:50:55.
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08/22/2006 11:50:21 AM · #9 |
I've been pretty lucky so far. I've had 3 shoots, 2 with OMP models and one with a Mayhem model and they've all gone off without a hitch and produced some good stuff. But I'm waiting on the day when that no show happens. The horror stories I read over at MM scare me with all the "flakes". But I guess those are just the chances we take when nobody is paid and for the most part, it's probably more of a hobby for a lot of the models on MM. Maybe you might have better luck at OMP??
Seems like you took all the steps you could to get the shoot going. Life happens, but I'd be very put off by someone who doesn't even have the courtesy to call me. Especially after I went through all the work of rearranging my house for them. All mine have been on location shoots, so even if they didn't show I could still shoot other stuff and not feel so put out.
Sucks that your first experience went that way, but I'd keep plugging away at it. I've gotten alot of responses from models there, so I'm hoping to get some good shots and have some good experiences from it. You never know when you might find that diamond in the rough. :-)
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08/22/2006 11:51:14 AM · #10 |
FWIW, I had a bit of a red flag that popped up when you said that you sent your wife and kids away.
I was concerned that you might be alone.
I remember reading another thread about a guy who almost got a bit burnt by shooting a model alone. VERY DANGEROUS.
#1 always have someone there with you
#2 encourage them strongly to have someone along with them
ESPECIALLY if they are a different gender, and doubly so if the clothing aspect might be a bit racy.
The last thing you want to do is have to try to prove that there was nothing going on with photographic evidence of a scantily clad girl prancing about alone...
Invite another shooter along or just have your wife around. Send the kids to a friend or a sitter...
I wonder if maybe she might have spooked with a similar thought? Maybe her friend backed out and she didn't want to go alone, but felt uncomfortable telling you that she was afraid to go alone. Maybe you had indicated previously to her that you like to shoot alone and that there wasn't going to be anyone else in the house... Maybe it was said in pure innocence but she heard wrong...
People are funny.
and not always 'ha ha' funny. |
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08/22/2006 11:57:35 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
#2 encourage them strongly to have someone along with them
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I strongly encourage this, especially if you are working with a model for the first time.
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08/22/2006 12:07:01 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by eschelar:
#2 encourage them strongly to have someone along with them
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I strongly encourage this, especially if you are working with a model for the first time. |
Yep. She asked if it was okay to have her friend drive her (and stay there), and I didn't have a problem with that. I don't think having my wife around would work well. It's tough to get a sitter for a couple hours, and although my wife is understanding about me shooting attractive women, I don't think she would actually want to see me shooting them. That would probably make both of us uncomfortable. I'm not sure if that makes sense--maybe I'm weird. :o) |
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08/22/2006 12:09:35 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by eschelar:
#2 encourage them strongly to have someone along with them |
I strongly encourage this, especially if you are working with a model for the first time. |
My first time working with a model, I like to have in a public place, like a neighborhood park or something like that. |
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08/22/2006 12:11:55 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Pixl Mastr WannaB:
... although my wife is understanding about me shooting attractive women, I don't think she would actually want to see me shooting them. That would probably make both of us uncomfortable. I'm not sure if that makes sense--maybe I'm weird. :o) |
Nope, I understand completely. I would get all self-conscious if I had my wife around during a shoot. |
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08/22/2006 12:12:54 PM · #15 |
OK, I have not done model shoots, nor am I by any stretch of the imagination a model..but as a woman, I was thinking if you insisted that the model bring an escort, it would not only make you look good, it would make the model very comfortable. And then everyones butts are covered...
and maybe better shots if the model is relaxed?
Just a thought... |
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08/22/2006 12:16:24 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Rae-Ann:
OK, I have not done model shoots, nor am I by any stretch of the imagination a model..but as a woman, I was thinking if you insisted that the model bring an escort, it would not only make you look good, it would make the model very comfortable. And then everyones butts are covered...
and maybe better shots if the model is relaxed?
Just a thought... |
And could make for a really hot shoot if the escort is also hot... LOL...
just kidding ofcourse. :-)
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08/22/2006 12:20:53 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by Rae-Ann:
OK, I have not done model shoots, nor am I by any stretch of the imagination a model..but as a woman, I was thinking if you insisted that the model bring an escort, it would not only make you look good, it would make the model very comfortable. And then everyones butts are covered...
and maybe better shots if the model is relaxed?
Just a thought... |
And could make for a really hot shoot if the escort is also hot... LOL...
just kidding ofcourse. :-) |
I have to admit, I was wondering if her driver friend was going to be cute, and if I should have two model releases ready just in case. :o) I guess I'll never know.
As far as an escort, it's fine with me as long as I don't have a semi-jealous boyfriend glaring at me the whole time. That wouldn't do either myself or the model any good, IMHO. |
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08/22/2006 12:33:59 PM · #18 |
| I think there's so much good advice here, for photographers as well as models. Just wanted to say that even though I'm not involved in being or getting models, I appreciate the good things to file away in the back of my brain. |
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08/22/2006 12:35:30 PM · #19 |
The risk of a lame shoot ruined by a semi-jealous boyfriend is probably not as bad as it sounds.
Especially compared with the troubles that can result by a loose cannon of a girl and you all by yourself with her for a couple hours... with your wife out of home... especially if the model is hot.
Actually, if she did bring her BF he might like it and go for a shoot later too. A good looking girl probably has a good looking BF... maybe he's interested in getting a CD too...
But if he was semi-jealous and glaring, it might ruin the shoot, but she might be irritated by it too and he might not come along on the next shoot.
I'm kinda of the opinion that it's more likely to be a girlfriend than a boyfriend that comes along though for that very reason.
Always have that second model release :)
A while back, I remember seeing a bit of something posted by Dr Jones about this (I think it was a few years back when he and Bianca were not quite so big-time) and they mentioned that they would never shoot without an escort for the photog AND the model. I don't think it was here at DPC.
Martin and Bianca are serious professionals... a good example in this regard. |
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08/22/2006 01:18:08 PM · #20 |
I had the same thing happen a few months ago. I was shooting a Safety Video for a local company. One of those Don't do This Videos.
They hired an actor from a play group in the area, I spent 3 hours setting up my cameras, microphones, audio recording equipment, lighting etc.. The so called actor never showed up. Had to do it all over again 2 weeks later but only after the company hired a real actor from a talant agency at my request. He arrived 3 hours before the shoot, helped me get set up doing sound and lighting. He was very involved in making sure that he looked and sounded good, Which is also helpful to me because It makes my end product look that much better The Best part was the script, He knew every line by heart and we shot the entire project in one day. Usually this style of video takes 2-3 days minimum.
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08/22/2006 01:56:39 PM · #21 |
This is all great advice / support--I really appreciate it. The problem I'm having for now is that I'm not making enough money from stock to justify hiring a pro. Down the road I'm sure I'll be making enough to do the studio rental and / or model hire. But for now I'm sticking with TFCD, which is probably going make most models a crap shoot (meaning a gamble--not a crappy photo shoot! :o)). Even $20 would be more cost than I could justify. It's not that I can't afford it, it's just that it may take quite a while for me to make back even a little money, and I want to make shooting stock as profitable as I can (obviously).
I am going to re-think the idea of having my wife present, though. I'll talk to her tonight, and see what she thinks. She is very supportive, and as long as I tell her in advance what to expect, it may work out okay. And I can certainly see where having someone present on my side of the deal could be great protection from a "he said / she said" scenerio down the road if the model flakes out. |
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08/22/2006 04:19:38 PM · #22 |
On the subject of having wives/husbands/boyfriends present.
I have a good friend who used to run a small-time studio in a large garage behind his house. He had a 40x30' space, with 12ft stud. He lined it, put heating in, shower and kitchenette, the whole works. Once he was set up he approached some local model agencies about being availble to do model work for portfolios.
He _always_ had an 'escort' for himself present, and insisted in his single page contract he used that the models bring a companion as well. His neighbour normally did assistant duties for him, which worked fine.
His wife put up with the whole process, him throwing heaps of money up against the wall making the studio, and the almost constant stream of young blokes and girls coming and going once things got off the ground.
The wife was almost always home during the shoots, some of which were nude/semi-nude. Never a problem. She would even come into the studio occasionally to get stuff out of store room out the back.. No problem. She would pass comment on photos and poses she thought were odd, and would talk/joke with the models and their companions.
The first time one of the models had to use the shower in the house, as the one attached to the studio was out of hot water was the day she had enough, and left him about a week later.
Long story short (I know, I should have put the moral first)...
Different people have different 'triggers' and thresholds for what is acceptable to them. This couple had been together for 8 years, never a single protest from the wife, and lots of communication. Then when the home became involved it was over.
The same can go for BF/GF when one is the model. With one couple I heard about te BF would sit down reading car magazines in the background. She could swing from the rafters by her toes and he wouldn't even look up. But he really, really, didn't like her having her pic taken in fishnets, even if she was wearing a mid length skirt. To him his GF wearing fishnets was 'his' thing.
Be careful out there, people are complex things... |
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08/22/2006 11:19:32 PM · #23 |
I hate to say it but I told you so... I suspect part of the problem was the concept of TFCD being not for commercial use. Form the model's perspective stock photos will earn you $$$ so the model doesn't see why they should not be paid.
Give the model your phone number, insist on getting theirs - a mobile prefereably, call and confirm the shoot the day before.
Good luck! |
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08/22/2006 11:38:33 PM · #24 |
I wonder if she got scared. I had the same problem with a couple of models I found on craigslist. And my shots would have been outdoors in a public place.
Both responded to emails and communication was great, until it came time to set the date and time. Never heard back from them.
It just makes me think they got scared or nervous and decided it was not a good idea. Maybe someone talked your model out of going. |
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08/22/2006 11:45:39 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by lepidus:
It just makes me think they got scared or nervous and decided it was not a good idea. Maybe someone talked your model out of going. |
FWIW, I've talked female friends out of seeing a photographer a few times. Either after seeing that thier work had no consistancy (ie I didn't think it was their work) or the work was not up to par for what I'd expect from at least a serious amateur.
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