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08/20/2006 09:28:43 AM · #151 |
wow.. i thought I got gipped for $370 for my 60,000.... but then again, i drive a cheap hyundai
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08/20/2006 10:25:49 AM · #152 |
This all looks quite cheap compared to motorcycle maintenance (the 600cc fourstroke performance type that rev to 12-15k).
I have the (synthetic) oil changed every 6000km and it needs it too. Every 24000 km the valve clearance needs to be checked and adjusted (that means taking the motor apart for a bit), spark plugs every 12000 km, also synchronizing the carbs every 12k, brake pads front every 30k, brake pads rear every 12k (I do the brakes myself, they need regular cleaning when you ride in the winter), officially it is wise to change the fork oil every two years (it attracts water and looses its dampening qualities over time), new chain and sprockets every 24000km, plus a lot of small stuff = big bills.
Fortunately that's not the worst. The tires are. New rear every 7000km, new front every 10000 (I am now on a harder compound, it used to be 3500km rear and 5000 front with the softer ones, I tried one tire that lasted only 1500km). For one rear I can replace all four on my car.
It has something to do with my riding style, when you ride normally you can do a lot longer with the oil and all the other stuff. When I have my car serviced I can only smile because of the low bill. :)
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08/20/2006 11:38:55 AM · #153 |
I guess at the bottom line I don't really understand why the auto industry feels justified getting $100/hr for such activity. Yes, some expertise is involved. Yes, some specialized tools make things easier or better, but I don't know too many other service industries which feel they can charge such rates.
Brad's going over of the 30k tuneup looked like it was about 3 1/2 hours. I'm assuming parts aren't that much there (fluids, plugs, etc.) so $100/hr is even a conservative judgement. |
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08/20/2006 02:37:32 PM · #154 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I guess at the bottom line I don't really understand why the auto industry feels justified getting $100/hr for such activity. Yes, some expertise is involved. Yes, some specialized tools make things easier or better, but I don't know too many other service industries which feel they can charge such rates. |
I love it, you have no clue on even the basics of how a modern automoble even works, yet you are telling people what it takes to repair/maintance them. Can I ask you a simple question? Who the heck do you think you are? Because your saying you know best how the Automotive repair industry should operate.
Im sorry, your 'Auto tune-up' was a 30k service thats requires on the vehicle, it was priced perfect, and what it cost. You want to pout because you feel any low life can do what the auto industry does and doesn't deserve to be paid anything. Yet you fail to realise what is actually involved, and what peoples time is worth. Im also sorry you have lived a sheltered life and feel any service industry is not worth the price of living, because your all high an mighty because your a Doctor and feel all others are beneath you. Grow up and pay someone thats got alot more training to do the work.
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08/20/2006 02:58:23 PM · #155 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I guess at the bottom line I don't really understand why the auto industry feels justified getting $100/hr for such activity. Yes, some expertise is involved. Yes, some specialized tools make things easier or better, but I don't know too many other service industries which feel they can charge such rates. |
I love it, you have no clue on even the basics of how a modern automoble even works, yet you are telling people what it takes to repair/maintance them. Can I ask you a simple question? Who the heck do you think you are? Because your saying you know best how the Automotive repair industry should operate.
Im sorry, your 'Auto tune-up' was a 30k service thats requires on the vehicle, it was priced perfect, and what it cost. You want to pout because you feel any low life can do what the auto industry does and doesn't deserve to be paid anything. Yet you fail to realise what is actually involved, and what peoples time is worth. Im also sorry you have lived a sheltered life and feel any service industry is not worth the price of living, because your all high an mighty because your a Doctor and feel all others are beneath you. Grow up and pay someone thats got alot more training to do the work. |
Dude, didn't I start the whole thing by saying "I don't understand". You are more than welcome to enlighten me rather than just getting all "up in my grill" (to use an auto term).
I assume labor's worth is directly related to specialization of knowledge and specialization of tools. The more you have of each, the more your labor is worth. Had you really read my post, I was questioning why auto labor seems to be quite different than other service industries? Computer repair, appliance repair, carpentry, plumbing all charge quite a bit less than the price I'm paying to have my car looked at. Perhaps I have "no clue" as to how you are far more educated than these people, but I think I at least have an inkling.
Sure, replacing a CV boot or something similar may demand such a price for the expertise and equipment required, but then how about a differential on hourly rates or a flat rate for the tuneup which requires a lower amount of expertise and equipment. Charging 15 minutes of labor for replacing a bulb in a rear taillight (which happened to me in PA until I complained) and then charging me an extra fee for disposal and shop overhead is nothing but patent greed.
I'm not sure why you are so bitter I'm a doc. I'm not sure of your age, but I'd bet at this point in our lives you have made more money than I have. I'm not sheltered to labor. I put myself through undergrad framing houses on a crew in the summers and building pocket door frames in my dad's garage to sell to lumber yards.
I'm just going to bite my tongue about the rest because you are just baiting me. I'm open ears to any reasonable explanation as to why you deserve $100/hr to change my oil and air filter among other things.
Message edited by author 2006-08-20 15:03:28. |
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08/20/2006 03:09:40 PM · #156 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I guess at the bottom line I don't really understand why the auto industry feels justified getting $100/hr for such activity... |
No offence doc, but everything can be viewed from a jaundiced eye. A little while ago I had the misfortune of cutting my hand open and required 14 or 17 stitches.
Since I was visiting a friend in the USA, and since the removal of these stitches would not fall under the realm of an "Emergency" I called to find out what out of pocket expenses I would incur. I was informed that this was a procedure that could be done by a "Nurse Practioner" and told the price.
Guess who practiced "Self Medicine" cause he thought the price was simply "Outrageous".
In a nutshell...If you don't like the price either do it yourself... find someone who will do it for what you think is fair... or do without.
Ray |
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08/20/2006 03:14:38 PM · #157 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
In a nutshell...If you don't like the price either do it yourself... find someone who will do it for what you think is fair... or do without.
Ray |
Probably fair enough...but it's so much fun to complain! Especially with Quinn watching...
Message edited by author 2006-08-20 15:15:51. |
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08/20/2006 03:21:47 PM · #158 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
In a nutshell...If you don't like the price either do it yourself... find someone who will do it for what you think is fair... or do without.
Ray |
Probably fair enough...but it's so much fun to complain! Especially with Quinn watching... |
Complain, or call it rape? You tell me, so whats involed with changin those simple spark plugs that anyone can do? I want detail whats involved since you seem to have a price set since its so easy, whats involved? |
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08/20/2006 03:48:04 PM · #159 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
In a nutshell...If you don't like the price either do it yourself... find someone who will do it for what you think is fair... or do without.
Ray |
Probably fair enough...but it's so much fun to complain! Especially with Quinn watching... |
Complain, or call it rape? You tell me, so whats involed with changin those simple spark plugs that anyone can do? I want detail whats involved since you seem to have a price set since its so easy, whats involved? |
Do you want me to type out the Chilton's pages or just scan them? |
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08/20/2006 03:59:10 PM · #160 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I assume labor's worth is directly related to specialization of knowledge and specialization of tools. The more you have of each, the more your labor is worth. Had you really read my post, I was questioning why auto labor seems to be quite different than other service industries? Computer repair, appliance repair, carpentry, plumbing all charge quite a bit less than the price I'm paying to have my car looked at. Perhaps I have "no clue" as to how you are far more educated than these people, but I think I at least have an inkling. |
There's an additional factor you've forgotten, which is surprising since you must be familiar with the different rates charge by malpractice insurance companies for physicians in different specialties.
If your computer or washing machine or toilet malfinctions as a result of improper repair, it's usually just a major inconvenience. If your car malfunctions as a result of an improper repair, you and your family die. That's a major reason auto mechanics and airline pilots and, yes, doctors get paid what seem like exhorbitant rates, while professions and crafts requiring as much specialized training and knowledge -- e.g. teaching -- do not.
Better to ask why bankers and stockbrokers and tennis players get paid ten times what you are ... |
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08/20/2006 04:05:20 PM · #161 |
Quite right Paul. That certainly plays a role too. I think perhaps Ray had the best advice and I should just shut up or pay. Brad was also helpful in breaking things down for me. If he thinks it would take a pro 45 minutes to change the plugs, it would likely take me 2 1/2 hours (five if my son is helping). That's probably not worth my time.
I'll just decide what to do and go for it I guess.
Thanks for the commiseration people. Thanks for keeping me in line Quinn. Anybody know a good mechanic in the Portland/Vancouver area? I'm shopping for a new one... |
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08/20/2006 04:07:56 PM · #162 |
Link//www.iatn.net/shopfinder/
I find this site has some helpfull info.
Message edited by author 2006-08-20 16:08:32. |
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08/20/2006 04:21:24 PM · #163 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
Link//www.iatn.net/shopfinder/
I find this site has some helpfull info. |
I tried the Car Talk site too. I'll have to make some calls tomorrow... |
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08/20/2006 06:11:52 PM · #164 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by Leok:
These ones have me intrigued:
Coolant Service
Transmission Service
Brake Fluid Service
Differential service (if required)
What exactly do you do for these items? Inspection? Change fluids? Somehow I don't imagine you strip them all down and recondition them @ 30k...
Must be alot of work to cost $650- my mechanic does all the rest except the alignment for $99. He includes inspection of all the above systems in the price.
A seperate issue - how can you justify charging for more work than the manufacturer recommends? They spent hundreds of millions of dollars engineering the vehicle, surely they are in the best position to know what is required to keep it in good shape...
$750 without plugs - bargain :P |
The services that I have up there are just that. All of the fluids are changed as well as any filters in the system.
Coolant service= Coolant flush and all new fluid added.
Transmission Service= Transmission fluid flush and if required filter.
Brake Fluid Service= Brake Fluid flushed.
Differential Service= Fluid exhange.
Not all of these services are done on each car @30k not all require them at that mileage. However even if they arent on my own car I do them anyway. Why you ask? THe manufacturer maint recommendations that are listed are the bare min you have to do in order to keep your warrenty good. That doesnt mean thats all you should do, just what you have to do. Fluids break down more depending on your driving habits. And I'd rather err on the side of making sure my car will last. Maybe thats why all of my cars have failed to break down and all except my motorhome have had a long life.
1996 WIndstar 129k miles and still driven daily.
1995 Explorer 203k miles and still driven daily.
1997 Escort 121k miles and used a few times a week.
2001 F53 Motorhome 36k miles.
MattO |
Yes I agree with the need for preventative maintenence. My wifes Mazda 121 was only ever serviced by my local mechanic who charges $100 for a major service (except for the 1000km service stuffed up by the dealer). We sold it at 7 years of age with 110,000km on it and it had never let us down in fact we never had to replace anything except tyres and brake pads that weren't part of the regular service. If we hadn't been heading overseas for 12 months we would have kept the car for many more years.
I also had a MX5/Miata for 3 years, (bought 2nd hand) it had over 200,000km by the time I sold it. Again it never broke down. I had to replace wear and tear items like the clutch and brake pads but nothing died due to lack of maintenence. The only other major repair I remember was the aircon clutch - the big electromagnet burnt out one day. I don't see how maintenence could have prevented that. I have always had my cars maintained by these types of mechanics and simply can't see the value in others that charge 4 to 7 times as much for essentially the same service. |
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