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08/10/2006 12:01:11 PM · #51 |
Who are "they" or "them" anyway?
"They" could live down our street, attend our universities and stand side by side with us in the queue for the bank.
I think that if we constantly think of "them" as an insane bunch of radicals living in a cave in a far off country that we can "wipe out" we will never begin to understand as to what makes a person want to blow up a plane as a way to fight back against what they see as terrorism dished out against their homes and loved one's by the UK and USA govenments.
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08/10/2006 12:17:02 PM · #52 |
Of course, one must remember that they've been unleashing this terroristm since before both the U.K and USA even existed. This is to them a nearly 1,500 yr war that goes back to shortly after the Roman empire.
I'm sure the victims in Darfur understand that the constant killings and attacks on them are due to their terrorism. Likewise, India. Phillipines. Russia. France. Spain. Australia. North Africa. The entire middle-east (one must remember long before the USA or Britain were there they were inflicting such upon themselves).
Even if you go so far back as to point to the crusades. Those were in response to the same aggression against the then eastern orthodox christian states seeking help from their western christian neighbors against the violent onslaught.
So, nope....I don't buy it all being a response to the last 80 yrs of USA/Britain/Israel. Cause historically speaking we've got over a dozen centuries of it.
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08/10/2006 12:24:10 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by Tallbloke:
Who are "they" or "them" anyway?
"They" could live down our street, attend our universities and stand side by side with us in the queue for the bank.
I think that if we constantly think of "them" as an insane bunch of radicals living in a cave in a far off country that we can "wipe out" we will never begin to understand as to what makes a person want to blow up a plane as a way to fight back against what they see as terrorism dished out against their homes and loved one's by the UK and USA govenments. |
Who cares who they are or what makes them the way they are??
The fact of the matter is that "they" want to destory our way of life, and if we continue down the path we currently are on "they" will suceed.
The only way that we will ever rid ouselves of this problem is to make the price of acts of terrorisim so high that "they" are no longer willing to pay the price. Talking and understanding is not the answer. These people have made it very clear that inocent life means nothing to them, and I think it's high time raise the stakes. If that means killing a hundred of them for every single inocent they kill, then so be it. We didn't start this war on terroisim, but we sure as hell could end it, if the world had the guts to do it.
Message edited by author 2006-08-10 12:25:04.
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08/10/2006 12:31:05 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by astropilot:
We didn't start this war on terroisim, but we sure as hell could end it, if the world had the guts to do it. |
And what exactly would that "final solution" be? |
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08/10/2006 12:33:46 PM · #55 |
astropilot
read back your post from "their" viewpoint and it still makes sense......this is it in a nutshell
"If that means killing a hundred of them for every single inocent they kill, then so be it"
just depends on where your frame of reference is!
Message edited by author 2006-08-10 12:35:43. |
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08/10/2006 12:36:23 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by astropilot:
Originally posted by Tallbloke:
Who are "they" or "them" anyway?
"They" could live down our street, attend our universities and stand side by side with us in the queue for the bank.
I think that if we constantly think of "them" as an insane bunch of radicals living in a cave in a far off country that we can "wipe out" we will never begin to understand as to what makes a person want to blow up a plane as a way to fight back against what they see as terrorism dished out against their homes and loved one's by the UK and USA govenments. |
Who cares who they are or what makes them the way they are??
The fact of the matter is that "they" want to destory our way of life, and if we continue down the path we currently are on "they" will suceed.
The only way that we will ever rid ouselves of this problem is to make the price of acts of terrorisim so high that "they" are no longer willing to pay the price. Talking and understanding is not the answer. These people have made it very clear that inocent life means nothing to them, and I think it's high time raise the stakes. If that means killing a hundred of them for every single inocent they kill, then so be it. We didn't start this war on terroisim, but we sure as hell could end it, if the world had the guts to do it. |
So what "price" would you consider high enough?
"a hundred of" whom do you want to kill in reprisal for the act of a terrorist group from London? The bombers of last year were Leeds residents and British citizens. Are you considering killing 6400 Yorkshiremen in revenge for the people who died in the bombings in London?
How does that make us better than them?
P
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08/10/2006 12:43:34 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by Makka:
How much do they actually search hand luggage in UK and the US? I remember 2 years ago I was on an interstate flight here in Australia and everything of mine was thoroughly searched. Even my camera bag was totally searched (everything emptied). How much of a chance is there to actually take a bomb on board in hand luggage these days? |
Normal practice is to put it through a x-ray machine, they may then look inside the bag and take the contents out, sometimes they do sometimes they dont. Then random checks when you go to the boarding area. Well thats my experience over the numerous trips from Gatwick.
Mike
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08/10/2006 12:49:24 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by astropilot:
The only way that we will ever rid ouselves of this problem is to make the price of acts of terrorisim so high that "they" are no longer willing to pay the price. |
What's higher than dying? Most of the terrorists in question are those that are willing to die for the cause. |
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08/10/2006 01:23:47 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by Riponlady:
How does that make us better than them?
P |
It seems people want to equate anyone who acts with violence as the same. This is wrong.
A kid who defends himself from bullies when the teachers aren't doing anything is not as evil as the bully. |
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08/10/2006 01:37:16 PM · #60 |
| The really sad part is, they don't have to actually do anything anymore to upset peoples lives. All they have to do is threaten. Could they build bombs on a plane? Sure...but do they have to? No. Just let it leak that they are going to and then have a few designated people purchase airline tickets. Send the world into a frenzy and disrupt lives and commerce. I think they have figured this out by now too. Think of the loss of revenue to the major airlines because of panic stricken people cancelling. I think they're making a joke out of us. |
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08/10/2006 01:43:54 PM · #61 |
please keep this thread on the news-based topics of the day. any political conversations should be started in a thread in the Rant forum.
thanks! |
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08/10/2006 01:54:33 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
please keep this thread on the news-based topics of the day. any political conversations should be started in a thread in the Rant forum.
thanks! |
Thanks.
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08/10/2006 01:55:42 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Tallbloke:
...." we will never begin to understand as to what makes a person want to blow up a plane |
That's easy...It's called insanity.
Originally posted by skiprow:
"what would happen to your body if you tried to negotiate with cancer?" |
tough question because cancer doesn't negotia.....wait a second....I see what you mean. Well said..
My only input is this:
Take a look at the last 60 years (and lot more for that matter) of violence and conflict in the Middle East. Once this bad boy gets rollin', there ain't no hopping off. Meaning, those who stand for justice and peace, should be prepared for a "battle" to the end. I am simply afraid this will never end. I am an optimist too!
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08/10/2006 01:56:59 PM · #64 |
Brilliant ... NOT!
Let's turn your idea around and say for every innocent that is killed by American Soldiers, 100 Americans are killed .... That's a guarantee to create more terrorists in the genral community where there were simply farmers previously ... Every capable person in that area will take up arms against the enemy.
Also: Let's not forget that many of "them" believe that death is not the end. "I was never afraid of death ... As Muslims, we believe that when we die, we go to heaven. Before a battle, God sends us ... tranquility." Osama BL
Death in an honerable way is the path to eternal immortality or more lives or whatever the case. You can't solve this problem with eye-fo an-eye -- No I'm sorry, 200 eyes for 2 eyes ...
----
Originally posted by astropilot:
Originally posted by Tallbloke:
Who are "they" or "them" anyway?
"They" could live down our street, attend our universities and stand side by side with us in the queue for the bank.
I think that if we constantly think of "them" as an insane bunch of radicals living in a cave in a far off country that we can "wipe out" we will never begin to understand as to what makes a person want to blow up a plane as a way to fight back against what they see as terrorism dished out against their homes and loved one's by the UK and USA govenments. |
Who cares who they are or what makes them the way they are??
The fact of the matter is that "they" want to destory our way of life, and if we continue down the path we currently are on "they" will suceed.
The only way that we will ever rid ouselves of this problem is to make the price of acts of terrorisim so high that "they" are no longer willing to pay the price. Talking and understanding is not the answer. These people have made it very clear that inocent life means nothing to them, and I think it's high time raise the stakes. If that means killing a hundred of them for every single inocent they kill, then so be it. We didn't start this war on terroisim, but we sure as hell could end it, if the world had the guts to do it. |
Message edited by author 2006-08-10 13:57:56.
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08/10/2006 02:01:54 PM · #65 |
i repeat:
Originally posted by muckpond:
please keep this thread on the news-based topics of the day. any political conversations should be started in a thread in the Rant forum.
thanks! |
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08/10/2006 02:02:01 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
So, don't use glycerol based products before a flight. |
From memory the Guildford Four (convicted as IRA terrorists, realised wrongfully 20 years later) were convicted on the basis of them being Irish and having glycerol on their hands, probably there because it was also used in the manufacture of the cards that they had been playing earlier the day they were picked up.
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08/10/2006 02:07:03 PM · #67 |
Spare a thought for my Wife Hanae who flies back to Japan from heathrow airport this weekend. Worried is an understatement, Im sure it will be ok and her Nikon is now in an alluminium case ready for the hold and her mac lappy also in a solid case. This adds to the weight and other things have been sacrificed to accomodate.
It is a terrible thing and all I can say is "No wonder Tony Blair left yesterday"
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08/10/2006 02:19:44 PM · #68 |
| I used to joke that soon we'll just strip naked and put all our clothes in a hermetically sealed baggie at check-in. I'm beginning to think it's not so much of a joke anymore. Let's hope they at least issue paper robes. |
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08/10/2006 02:22:17 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by astropilot:
We didn't start this war on terroisim, but we sure as hell could end it, if the world had the guts to do it. |
Who did?
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08/10/2006 02:22:46 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Let's hope they at least issue paper robes. |
yeah, but they'll still make you take off your paper slippers and run them through the x-ray. |
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08/10/2006 02:35:28 PM · #71 |
"we didn't start it" vs "who did?"
unfortunately, you could take this game of he-said-she-said back to the dawn of time. as long as there have been two people, there has been envy and coveting. any of you with siblings should remember very well your childhood, where the item you had no interest in suddenly became the most important thing in your life as soon as your brother or sister picked it up.
human nature will never outgrow itself. people just never seem to be satisfied with what they have. and, when you can't get what you want, what do you do? try to take it or steal it? or break it? act out in a tantrum? or, kill those that have it, break their stuff, and take what's left over?
oh, how we would all like to sit on the thrones of kings, fed pitted olives while we watch the dancers swirl. most of us can accept that vision is just a dream, a dream to motivate us and entertain us as we toil to earn what is ours. however, even as we accept what we have, we must protect ourselves from those that would just as soon slit our throats because that's the only way they know to get what they want. |
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08/10/2006 02:39:42 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
i repeat:
Originally posted by muckpond:
please keep this thread on the news-based topics of the day. any political conversations should be started in a thread in the Rant forum.
thanks! |
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It might be better to move the thread so that some of the points can be answered. It is already 3/4 gone.
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08/10/2006 02:41:44 PM · #73 |
Okay. I've often wondered since 9/11 when they would start blocking liquids coming on airplanes and today is the day. But what if some terrorist decides that he will use the water from the plane to react to alkaline metals?
He sneaks the stuff on with his carry on and then asks for a bottle of water or goes to the bathroom to dump it in the toilet or sink...
//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2134266654801392897
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkali_metal
In the end it becomes the quality of our intelligence that will probably ultimately protect and save us.
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08/10/2006 02:45:08 PM · #74 |
| Dleach, come with us.. we need to ask you some questons. |
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08/10/2006 03:15:35 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by Riponlady:
How does that make us better than them?
P |
It seems people want to equate anyone who acts with violence as the same. This is wrong.
A kid who defends himself from bullies when the teachers aren't doing anything is not as evil as the bully. |
Who is the bully and who is the teacher? I was answering the point that we should respond 100 fold for innocents slaughtered. How can that be right? It does make us as evil as the terrorists as we then are slaughtering innocents.
We've heard the story of you being bullied at school on numerous occasions and I can see this left a terrible mental scar on you, but this does not equate to this topic. In "their" eyes we are the bullies, in our eyes, they are the bullies
P.
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