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07/31/2006 01:00:35 PM · #401 |
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
A lot of talk talk talk but no suggestions on what to do. May I suggest the following.
1. Delete all accounts that have no camera, sorry but this is a photo site, to actively participat you really need a camera.
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hmmm... the stats on this image I entered always bothered me...
Avg (all users): 6.412
Avg (commenters): 7.760
Avg (camera): 6.500
Avg (no camera): 3.714****
IMHO...Voters with no camera should not be Allowed to vote on challenges. |
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07/31/2006 01:00:39 PM · #402 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Beetle:
That sort of thing will always happen, and we'll just live with it. |
Hang on there! You need look no further than this thread to know that we take any sort of fraud seriously, |
No, no, I didn't mean cheating to THIS extent - obviously this sort of thing CAN be found out and dealt with.
I am talking about a buddy system (both male AND female, DrAchoo), which can have quite some impact without ever being found out.
Don't try to tell me that 100% of the 1000's of members/users of any site/organization are 100% honest. I'm not even making "vague accusations" here, I'm simply being realistic. |
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07/31/2006 01:00:40 PM · #403 |
Something happened. Different people have different reactions to what happened.
That makes sense as people ARE different and WILL see things in different ways.
It is perfectly normal to disagree with someone's opinion, and I am not trying to say anyone is wrong for that. But I don't think - especially in a tough, emotionally charged situation such as this one - that much will be helped by arguing about how or why someone views this matter differently from another. |
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07/31/2006 01:07:54 PM · #404 |
Wheh!
I haven't read or seen so much, who wants to write a bestseller about it?
Nothing new here, really.
When there is a large group such as this, it simply mimics the "Real World" outside of cyberspace, statistically. So do the replies of the members.
Hey, I know, when my photos are worthy of a ribbon.
I know what I've learned and accomplished.
I know I am getting better, learning, chatting, participating, and enjoying photography and what short life we all have.
Incidents make people think, creates changes in many ways.
Now back to taking pictures...
There are only two types of people in the world, ones with a camera and ones without. |
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07/31/2006 01:09:22 PM · #405 |
Originally posted by amber:
Originally posted by patrinus:
I'm shocked, I think this is something that could happen to mostly anybody on this site (whoever has friends and is eager to tell about DPC). Rikki is a great guy and I think his intention wasn't unfair but things happen.
I hope we can see Rikki back here and continue learning from him.
Good luck Rikki, keep the good work up!, don't stop improving on your photo skills. |
So the consensus is that Rikki is the victim of his co workers and SC have unfairly banned him? |
Whoah ...
When did anyone suggest there's a consensus that Rikki's a victim? I disagree strongly with Patrinus' apparent point, and I don't think this could happen to anybody who's paying attention. Patrinus' is the first post even remotely close to the idea that Rikki didn't do anything wrong or that he shouldn't be punished. I actually don't read his post that way, but I can see where others might read it differently.
What you may be referring to is speculation by Dr. Achoo, myself, and others, that what started out as a single mistake in judgement evolved into a major problem, even without a conscious attempt attempt to steal ribbons. But we don't really know, and that's been stated repeatedly.
Speaking for myself, I think the initial mistake did evolve, by whatever means, into a horrendous abuse. And, thus, I think a year is too short.
But it's the admins' and the SC's call, and I'll go on about my life secure in the knowledge they've sweated over this far more than I will.
Message edited by author 2006-07-31 13:11:50. |
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07/31/2006 01:13:42 PM · #406 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
More like, "He lost sight of what's really important and hurt his friends when he would have been just fine on his own. We might welcome him back, but he'll have a tough reputation to live down." |
The reason most of use joined is because there are rules. Are you saying these rules are OK for some and not OK for others. Just keep it simple and stick to the rules. As a member of SC you should above all be holding that firm rather than watering it down. In a business situation, this type of rule-breaking is called fraud. |
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07/31/2006 01:15:00 PM · #407 |
It's fraud here, too. Where did I suggest it was OK? It's not like he's getting a slap on the wrist here. A year's suspension is like a life sentence to such an active member. He's been stripped of his ribbons and a bunch of favorites, publically shamed, and if he comes back at all he'll have a sea of red DQ's on his profile and a tough reputation to live down. That's a heavy cross to bear.
Message edited by author 2006-07-31 13:20:49. |
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07/31/2006 01:16:50 PM · #408 |
Originally posted by pineapple:
Originally posted by scalvert:
More like, "He lost sight of what's really important and hurt his friends when he would have been just fine on his own. We might welcome him back, but he'll have a tough reputation to live down." |
The reason most of use joined is because there are rules. Are you saying these rules are OK for some and not OK for others. Just keep it simple and stick to the rules. As a member of SC you should above all be holding that firm rather than watering it down. In a business situation, this type of rule-breaking is called fraud. |
Shannon was responding to Amber's comment re: Patrinus's comment, a little further up, and suggesting that amber had misread what patrinus had to say.
R.
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07/31/2006 01:18:51 PM · #409 |
a friend of a friend of mine is a couple months away from completing a 10-yr sentence for cocaine distribution. he had gotten into it to get some quick, easy money, but instead got caught and lost everything--his freedom, his wife, his home, his kids, his job, his reputation. my friend told me that all the guy has had to say about it was, "i made a mistake, and i'm sorry. i did the crime, i'm doing the time, and i'll deal with everything else once i get out." no blame, no excuses, and, from the sounds of it, no bitterness. it sounds like he has a good idea of what to expect once he gets out, and he's ready to deal with it.
one real show of character will be how rikki is a year from now...
another show of character will be how we all are a year from now... |
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07/31/2006 01:21:17 PM · #410 |
I don't see why everybody has to jump at Rikki's neck and flame him.
1) There was a clear mistake
2) There is a clear punishment
3) As long as I have no doubt about his intention *I* hope to see him back. (clearly subjective and everybody can have a different opinion)
4) I think he is no victim but I can imagine this to be an easy mistake for anyone, so I suggest everybody a little indulgence as the proper measures have already been taken by SC.
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07/31/2006 01:22:51 PM · #411 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
another show of character will be how we all are a year from now... |
Indeed.
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07/31/2006 01:24:13 PM · #412 |
Originally posted by patrinus:
I don't see why everybody has to jump at Rikki's neck and flame him.
1) There was a clear mistake
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I hope he comes back to, but from my understanding this was intentional NOT a mistake. He planned this, it didn't occur on it's own.
Just my 2 cents.
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07/31/2006 01:24:36 PM · #413 |
| on an italian web site there should be 3 parties....1)the hanging party... 2) the party of those which ask for forgiveness of God and Admin..3) and the :"I don't give a fuck" party 'cause I get nothing (99%) :) |
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07/31/2006 01:25:07 PM · #414 |
Originally posted by patrinus:
I don't see why everybody has to jump at Rikki's neck and flame him. ... |
I believe not all of the reaction is directed specifically at Rikki per-se. It's the shock of the action and the length of time it was going on. Insert another name if you wish but I think many people are just plain ticked off that this level of cheating was able to go on undetected for so long. |
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07/31/2006 01:25:34 PM · #415 |
when's this thread gonna be locked, i wonder?
when's enough enough? |
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07/31/2006 01:25:47 PM · #416 |
Originally posted by patrinus:
I don't see why everybody has to jump at Rikki's neck and flame him.
1) There was a clear mistake
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Mistake!! What mistake, getting caught?? He cheated, personally I liken the whole afair to theft. He stole from each and everyone of us through his actions..
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07/31/2006 01:26:58 PM · #417 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Whoah ...
What you may be referring to is speculation by Dr. Achoo, myself, and others, that what started out as a single mistake in judgement evolved into a major problem, even without a conscious attempt attempt to steal ribbons. But we don't really know, and that's been stated repeatedly.
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At some point he seems to have continued to inform others about which image was his. After the initial, single mistake in judgement he had an opportunity to put a stop to it, otherwise after that it was conscious. 40 odd times conscious. If that's not the case, he was totally unaware what these voters were doing, and they either got his weekly challenge images by stealth, or he continued to declare them in spite of his initial single mistake in judgement, therefore why should he be held accountable? I'm confused.
I like rikki, I enjoyed his posts and images. But if this was maestro for example, I don't think many people would be reacting the same way.
Message edited by author 2006-07-31 13:37:43. |
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07/31/2006 01:27:38 PM · #418 |
Originally posted by ergo:
when's this thread gonna be locked, i wonder?
when's enough enough? |
Hopefully, not for a long time. People have been affected by this, and the thread provides an outlet work out their anger and sense of betrayal. It's a healthy thing.
R.
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07/31/2006 01:29:25 PM · #419 |
Originally posted by patrinus:
I don't see why everybody has to jump at Rikki's neck and flame him.
1) There was a clear mistake
2) There is a clear punishment
3) As long as I have no doubt about his intention *I* hope to see him back. (clearly subjective and everybody can have a different opinion)
4) I think he is no victim but I can imagine this to be an easy mistake for anyone, so I suggest everybody a little indulgence as the proper measures have already been taken by SC. |
Only Rikki knows why he emailed his challenge entries to friends. If he was merely sharing his enthusiasm, his friends took it upon themselves to increase his score, and Rikki had no knowledge they were voting, it was a mistake. If he asked them to vote (even if he just said "vote" and didn't ask for them to give him 10's) or knew they were voting, then he made a conscious decision to break the rule about keeping entries anonymous. |
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07/31/2006 01:30:21 PM · #420 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by ergo:
when's this thread gonna be locked, i wonder?
when's enough enough? |
Hopefully, not for a long time. People have been affected by this, and the thread provides an outlet work out their anger and sense of betrayal. It's a healthy thing.
R. |
Well, will disagree. Healthy is letting it drop. I suppose the ignore option is just above this other button on my screen. :) |
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07/31/2006 01:34:10 PM · #421 |
Originally posted by patrinus:
I don't see why everybody has to jump at Rikki's neck and flame him.
1) There was a clear mistake
2) There is a clear punishment
3) As long as I have no doubt about his intention *I* hope to see him back. (clearly subjective and everybody can have a different opinion)
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Mistake...? ....................mistake?
I must be on a different planet because I see no mistake.
If he was aware of it then there was NO mistake.
Nobody knows his intention but him so I'm not certain why or how you're certain about his intent. For me, apologies are crap at this point...too little, too late.
I think if some of the forgiving people here worked their asses off to win a ribbon...break the Top 10/20 barrier and missed those marks which I'd bet there are a few, his actions might be taken in a different light. I especially feel for those who placed 4th and were robbed of their glory. That would piss me off to no end. |
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07/31/2006 01:35:40 PM · #422 |
| Perhaps the submission rules should be clarified a bit to specifically ban sharing of photographs in order to solicit votes/comments before the end of the challenge. |
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07/31/2006 01:35:58 PM · #423 |
| Is it possible for SC to Post a list of the challenges with "tainted" results? |
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07/31/2006 01:36:25 PM · #424 |
Well I for one am pissed off because the challenge in which I placed 11th was NOT one where he came in above me. Sigh.... just my luck.
(OK, so I just wanted to throw that in there for a little levity.)
:-) |
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07/31/2006 01:37:14 PM · #425 |
I've been trying to keep up with this thread. Lots of thoughts come to mind but I'll hold back most of them for the time being. But I do want to thank the admins, and the SC, and all the others who helped them in this matter, for their ongoing dedication to dpc. It's clear that many, many hours were spent on this problem, and more will be required. Thank You all.
I also want to mention keegbow and pawdrix. Your posts here were duely noteed. Thank You both.
And now a few specific repsonses -
Originally posted by muckpond:
... also, the recalculations that occurred last night appear to be the result of SOME votes being tossed out because the user's DQs made it so the "ghost" accounts voted on less than 20% of the remaining images in the challenges. this is a flaw in the programming of the site that is currently being dealt with, as it has obviously given us some pause for consideration. |
I don't see this as anything unusual, and don't see any need to change it. Why do you consider it a flaw in the system?
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
Don't all think it's really past time to stop the Rikki this and that. I've seen far too many persoanl scathing remarks that delve completely past DPC and into areas that this shows how dishonest he is in all parts of his life. Thanks ridiculous and serves no purpose here at DPC. The freedom to voice opinions is good, slander and libel is not.
If ya'll do a search not too long ago, the middle of July 2007, there was a member who asked DPC'rs to go to a newpaper site and vote his fireworks photo up so he could win a prize ... MONEY. I give no names, I think I even responded and had trouble getting to the site to look at the pics. SO how many of the fine DPC members helped vote up a photo so someone could make hundred bucks? Isn't that worse than helping someone win bragging rights at DPC? This isn't the only example of requests from DPC members to others here to vote in various other contests so they can win.
Stop throwing stones at one individual, there are dozens if not hundreds of others that have done similar things here or at other photog sites. |
Some have thrown stones but many have also voiced support and sympathy. The community has been dealt a severe blow, and it needs to vent. Better to let it all hang out now as long as it doesn't become unnecessary personal attacks.
Originally posted by ralphnev:
... I hope this is all that falls out of the tree with this shake up .. |
I join in that hope Ralph. But my faith in our community's ability to root out the cheaters would be bolstered even further if a few more of the bad apples among us were to fall.
It will be days, perhaps weeks before the dust settles. There are still a lot of loose ends flapping about in the wind, some may never be answered. The situation will be much better understood after more facts surface and are digested; and after time gives emotions a chance to calm down. Everyone should re-evaluate their own personal feelings at some point in the future, and be prepared to lay aside the conclusions we may have jumped to in the short term.
Just my one cent's worth as I'm sure I'll have more to say later.
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