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07/25/2006 08:46:10 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by albc28:
These threads aren't bickering, but clarifying the challenge. ... |
No disrespect intended here. This thread has stayed pretty civil and mostly on track. Many times what happens in various challenge threads, prior to submission deadline, is some posturing to basically "sell" a viewpoint. The opposing viewpoints I've seen show up here is the two camps on color vs no color in the 'B+W in Color' challenge. Some say a little color in the image is fine - some say not (that it should be strictly B/W).
This can be influencing voters as well as educating (or creating an "understanding of the challenge"). ;^) |
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07/25/2006 08:52:37 AM · #52 |
| geez... out of everything I wrote you all pick ONE word to jump on! I forgot to put a smiley face after it! or should it be ;). |
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07/25/2006 09:10:59 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
The color on color, similar to white on white and black on black, forces a photographer to use light and shadow to give dimension to their subject. It is much more of a challenge to shoot a background and an object of the same color and still allow the viewer to separate them visually. The winner will do that well. |
The only requirement is that all elements be the same color, not that they must be the same shade of that color.
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07/25/2006 09:30:10 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Originally posted by dahkota:
The color on color, similar to white on white and black on black, forces a photographer to use light and shadow to give dimension to their subject. It is much more of a challenge to shoot a background and an object of the same color and still allow the viewer to separate them visually. The winner will do that well. |
The only requirement is that all elements be the same color, not that they must be the same shade of that color. |
I'm sorry, but where did dahkota mention shades of color? |
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07/25/2006 09:47:38 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
I am worried for different reason. My black and white entery look so much black and white that i am afraid i will get disco requests just claiming that i is shot black and white and not in color.
Though, if one look carefully he can spot that there is little frindge of blue somewhere in the photo. Otherwise its wonderful photo. First time decided to use tripod for challenge entery. |
I'm in the same boat with my submission. Just for grins and giggles, I converted it to B&W just to see and there is very little difference. |
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07/25/2006 09:48:50 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
both of these challenges have a purpose - to allow photographers to learn how to shoot under varying circumstances.
The color on color, similar to white on white and black on black, forces a photographer to use light and shadow to give dimension to their subject. It is much more of a challenge to shoot a background and an object of the same color and still allow the viewer to separate them visually. The winner will do that well.
The black and white subject IN color (any background allowed) is an exercise in lighting and color control. What kind of lighting do you need for white to be white?
At any rate, take the challenges for what they are: exercises to improve your photography. Stop bickering about if this meets YOUR interpretation of the challenge or if this DNMC and go learn! |
Originally posted by dahkota:
geez... out of everything I wrote you all pick ONE word to jump on! I forgot to put a smiley face after it! or should it be ;). |
I think she's nailed the best interpretations for these two challenges. If you're gonna pick up on a single word from dahkota's post, it should be the last one - LEARN.
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07/25/2006 09:51:35 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Originally posted by dahkota:
The color on color, similar to white on white and black on black, forces a photographer to use light and shadow to give dimension to their subject. It is much more of a challenge to shoot a background and an object of the same color and still allow the viewer to separate them visually. The winner will do that well. |
The only requirement is that all elements be the same color, not that they must be the same shade of that color. |
I'm sorry, but where did dahkota mention shades of color? |
It seems implied to me in the description she's using to explain the challenge. Using light and shadow on objects of the same color so that they can be separated visually. That's only really necessary if the background and the subject are the same shade of the same color, no? If they're different shades, then they're visually separated on their own.
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07/25/2006 09:55:36 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
It seems implied to me in the description she's using to explain the challenge. Using light and shadow on objects of the same color so that they can be separated visually. That's only really necessary if the background and the subject are the same shade of the same color, no? If they're different shades, then they're visually separated on their own. |
That's a fair point you make. I didn't get that impression myself at first. Just goes to show how easy it is for people to have numerous interpretations of the challenge descriptions each week. ;^) |
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07/25/2006 10:18:05 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Originally posted by dahkota:
The color on color, similar to white on white and black on black, forces a photographer to use light and shadow to give dimension to their subject. It is much more of a challenge to shoot a background and an object of the same color and still allow the viewer to separate them visually. The winner will do that well. |
The only requirement is that all elements be the same color, not that they must be the same shade of that color. |
Nowhere did I say they must be the same color. I said, "It is much more of a challenge to shoot a background and an object of the same color and still allow the viewer to separate them visually. The winner will do that well." Huge difference. |
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07/26/2006 12:56:56 AM · #60 |
| How many times did the description for 'b/w in color' change? Why weren't there any admin or main page announcements to draw attention to the changes? Why couldn't the intent of the challenge be stated (e.g. were we imitating b/w, were we adding something to b/w by using a color shot - or was this just an arbitrary restriction?) Thanks for any input. |
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07/26/2006 01:01:35 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by meanwile:
How many times did the description for 'b/w in color' change? Why weren't there any admin or main page announcements to draw attention to the changes? Why couldn't the intent of the challenge be stated (e.g. were we imitating b/w, were we adding something to b/w by using a color shot - or was this just an arbitrary restriction?) Thanks for any input. |
Once and probably because it was about two hours after the challenge was announced. And because when is intent ever stated? |
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07/26/2006 01:43:33 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by meanwile:
How many times did the description for 'b/w in color' change? Why weren't there any admin or main page announcements to draw attention to the changes? Why couldn't the intent of the challenge be stated (e.g. were we imitating b/w, were we adding something to b/w by using a color shot - or was this just an arbitrary restriction?) Thanks for any input. |
Once and probably because it was about two hours after the challenge was announced. And because when is intent ever stated? |
It seemed like it changed after the first time, but perhaps I am hallucinating.
Intent as in hinting at the aim of the challenge. Examples:
Perspective - Use perspective to create a dramatic effect with your photograph.
Take 2 - With 500 challenges under our belts, let's see what we've learned! Pick one of your own (non-ribbon winning) past entries and improve upon it based on the comments you received.
Heat - Convey heat in your photograph.
But I guess there was no unified idea of what the b/w in color challenge was supposed to accomplish or teach. My question about it was based on looking at the odd mix of entries.
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07/29/2006 04:40:12 AM · #63 |
I was initially a bit confused about the "B&W in colour" until I looked at some of the photos I had taken one day. It turned out that some of my photos looked totally B&W, even though I shot in full colour all day.
To me, the challenge was about B&W, but when I looked at some photos entered, I was somewhat surprised at the amount of colour in the photos.
Anyway, it was a very interesting challenge. I am very very happy with my entry, but not sure how well it will do.
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07/29/2006 11:22:55 AM · #64 |
| Well soo far the reviews I have got have been right on track with what I felt was the way to go. I took the challenge to mean make it appear to be B&W. Some interpreted it to mean on the subject, whiched seemed to easy to me. But I did vote slightly away from what I felt was the point. So as to be fair with the description of the challenge. I did however see many that look like they were just plain old color photos without any B&W attempt at all. And a few that appeared to be shot B&W or desated. I had one person blast me for commenting it looked like it was desated. The funny thing is I don't even remember the photo. |
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08/01/2006 12:21:16 AM · #65 |
This set of challenges has presented quite a problem in their interpretation. One is asking you to stay within the domains of one color family much like placing a light and dark blue bottle against a blue sky. The other to wind up with a grayscale like image and to to do it without global desaturation or conversion to black and white. It is this one I would like to demonstrate because some folks simply have not delved deeply enough. The challenge is almost over and so 95% have voted and not likely to go back but I wish to offer this observation for when the challenge returns as b/w II.
B/W in color means exactly that. If you use color objects they will interfere. You want objects that contain some or all of the following:
Black, White and the family derived between these two extremes. This means the grayscale between black and white. Let us look at some generic examples:
A) The black object against the white background or the reverse.
B) grayscale against black or white
Now, example A is easy to understand because it is a literal interpretation.
Example B is the one that fools the unwary. Suppose you shoot a gray dot against a black or white background. It can be argued that the gray against white has no black and that gray against black has no white.
None of these argument apply because the virtue of a b/w image is its grayscale foundation. The two extremes of black and white are not required.
So, you can find such grayscale images under an overcast sky near rock formations with a neutral sky and all seaguls are welcome. You can find bodies of clear water reflecting rock formations and branches. The overcast adds the added magic. Notice that some of these images are about 80 percent gray values with only accents of sheer black and white and some may even lack either of these extremes.
Another way to go is to find objects all around you which meet the grayscale including coal, tin, nickel, platinum. silver, etc. Can not use yellow gold but white gold is good.
Another approach to create an artistic rendition one may choose to paint objects white, gray or black.
So, a gray poster board as background and then a dark gray pattern will qualify. Yes, there is no black and no white but that is not required. Black and white means grayscale. In other words, the end result is a grayscale that is shot with color film but no color to register since steps have been taken to avoid color subject. Paint the apple black, white or gray and shoot it against black, gray or white and the challenge is met.
Message edited by author 2006-08-01 00:28:15. |
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08/01/2006 12:24:56 AM · #66 |
graphicfunk, your interpretation of the challenge is mine exactly... and i did vote it as such.
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