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07/21/2006 12:58:40 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
... Nevertheless, I haven't had any problems ordering from Dell other than a long wait on one camera. Dell sells 13-15 BILLION dollars worth of products per quarter, so obviously not everyone has a bad experience. I'm sure most people aren't thrilled with Microsoft either, but they still buy MS products. ... |
I don't think that's a good comparison, Dell to MS. People have very little choice when buying MS products, and often that choice is made for them by a computer manufacturer. (Remember that the Justice Dept. had them on the ropes and planning a breakup until MS started to understand the importance of hiring lobbyists and making contributions to pols, then the Bush admin came into power and all that monopolistic behavior was forgiven and forgotten.) There are many, many viable alternatives to buying a digital camera from Dell. So why do so many people shop there? Some do it because they read things like what you posted here from your readings of the deal sites. Maybe you'll think twice about suggesting Dell's bargains now that you have seen the resellerratings.
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07/21/2006 01:13:44 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
... Maybe you'll think twice about suggesting Dell's bargains now that you have seen the resellerratings. |
I certainly hope he doesn't. I do not know who among the readers have had any personal experiences with Dell, but I have, thanks to Scalvert's timely comments.
I have managed to save a substantial amount of money and did not experience any problems whatsoever, notwitstanding the fact that the items in questions had to be shipped outside of the USA.
It could be argued that ratings are often reflective of that segment of the customer base that was disatisfied, and not the consumer base as a whole. We are all prone to complain when things go wrong, but sadly few of us are apt to make any laudable comments when things go right.
Rather than trying to ascribe an ulterior motive in this scenario, I would commend Shannon's ultruistic approach in this regard, and thank him for bringing things of this nature to the forefront.
Just a thought.... :O)
Ray
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07/21/2006 01:26:59 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Maybe you'll think twice about suggesting Dell's bargains now that you have seen the resellerratings. |
As with anything, caveat emptor. A few years ago, I bought a subscription to Consumer Reports specifically to research a minivan and washer and dryer. We bought a Honda Odyssey and Whirlpool Calypso- both the highest-rated models in their respective categories by far, and both from companies with outstanding track records. Pfft! The Odyssey is on its third transmission (among other problems), and the Calypso died last month as a result of HUGE quality/design issues (look up the Calypso on ePinions). Honda gave us discounts on refurb warranty replacements, and Whirlpool has refused to even acknowledge the problem. Moral: ratings ain't everything! ;-)
Dell is not my favorite company, but neither is it an empty storefront or scam like many Brooklyn photo shops. If you place an order, you'll get the product- often right away, sometimes after a delay. Once you have it, warranty issues are the manufacturer's responsibility, and Dell is out of the equation. FWIW, DealMac has an aggressive policy of banning disreputable companies, but they still list Dell, whose ratings are mostly tied to computer equipment (their primary business).
Message edited by author 2006-07-21 13:45:23. |
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07/21/2006 01:47:29 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
As with anything, caveat emptor. A few years ago, I bought a subscription to Consumer Reports specifically to research a minivan and washer and dryer. We bought a Honda Odyssey and Whirlpool Calypso- both the highest-rated models in their respective categories by far, and both from companies with outstanding track records. Pfft! The Odyssey is on its third transmission (among other problems), and the Calypso died last month as a result of HUGE quality/design issues (look up the Calypso on ePinions). Honda gave us discounts on refurb warranty replacements, and Whirlpool has refused to even acknowledge the problem. Moral: ratings ain't everything! ;-) |
Caveat Emptor indeed! I agree that high ratings can lead you astray when a good seller/maker stumbles. Sometimes we get caught in a bad buy even when we have taken all the right precautions. Some times good sellers/makers go south. But thats not the same as buying from, or suggesting that others buy from, a seller that you know already has a bad rep, a confirmed bad-acter.
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07/21/2006 01:57:17 PM · #30 |
| Ahem... SonyStyle has a lifetime Rating of 3.75. Yes, THAT Sony. Like Dell, their primary business (and rating) isn't based on cameras. Nikonmall.com also has a lifetime Reseller rating of 5.00 (albeit with two opinions). |
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07/21/2006 02:09:06 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
has the 5D dipped below $2500 yet? |
Nope still $2899. I check it everyday. This will be my next purchase.
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07/21/2006 02:31:44 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
... But thats not the same as buying from, or suggesting that others buy from, a seller that you know already has a bad rep, a confirmed bad-acter. |
It would seem that the two of us are at odds in this regard, which is fine in that it will heighten awareness in the DPC populace.
If indeed as you state Dell was a confirmed bad-acter, and bearing in mind the fact that they have such horrible ratings, then I would assume that their corporate demise is imminent.
I would hasten to reiterate my previous comment that ratings are not everything, since there is no gradient for displeasure, as even minor annoyances form part of the statistics.
I tried, liked it, and would strongly recommend it.
Just another man's viewpoint.
Ray
Message edited by author 2006-07-21 14:49:12. |
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07/21/2006 02:42:10 PM · #33 |
If all they are good for is trashing some of our favorite sellers maybe we should all gang up on resellerratings, and try to get that site shutdown.
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07/21/2006 05:27:55 PM · #34 |
| YE-ikes... here's a 2Gb 60X CompactFlash card for $23 after a small rebate. That's scary-cheap. i have no personal experience with PQI, but it's considered a name brand. |
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07/21/2006 05:30:00 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
...maybe we should all gang up on resellerratings, and try to get that site shutdown. |
Nah... DPCPrints has a lifetime rating of 10.00! :-D |
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07/21/2006 05:31:39 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
If all they are good for is trashing some of our favorite sellers maybe we should all gang up on resellerratings, and try to get that site shutdown. |
I know the editor-in-chief of RR from another forum, and it's definitely not a biased site or out to get any retailers.
The reviews are all made by customers of the sites, not by resellerratings themselves. They do remove the trolling reviews or score-padding reviews from dishonest companies, and they check to make sure that someone who writes a review actually made a transaction with the company before they let them write it. As said before, someone is much more likely to write a negative review because they had a bad experience than a positive review based on a positive experience.
People kind of expect huge companies like Dell, Sony, etc. to deliver the item quickly and perfectly, and they won't be surprised or pleased enough to write a positive review if it gets there on time and intact. But if something goes wrong, they'll be indignant and want to make sure everyone knows that 'x' company made a mistake.
On the other hand, big companies can be pretty frustrating/impossible to deal with if you want anything outside of their typical transaction. Some of the people who had bad experiences were probably not their typical customer, and they won't waste time catering or bending policy just to please a few people. Apparently Dell has a policy of not shipping any computers to a retailer unless they have a customer lined up to buy it immediately - the computer store I worked at was a Dell retailer but we weren't able to sell any Dell computers because everyone would buy it straight from them, so we never made any money from it. |
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07/21/2006 06:48:18 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
I know the editor-in-chief of RR from another forum, and it's definitely not a biased site or out to get any retailers.
The reviews are all made by customers of the sites, not by resellerratings themselves. They do remove the trolling reviews or score-padding reviews from dishonest companies, and they check to make sure that someone who writes a review actually made a transaction with the company before they let them write it. As said before, someone is much more likely to write a negative review because they had a bad experience than a positive review based on a positive experience.
People kind of expect huge companies like Dell, Sony, etc. to deliver the item quickly and perfectly, and they won't be surprised or pleased enough to write a positive review if it gets there on time and intact. But if something goes wrong, they'll be indignant and want to make sure everyone knows that 'x' company made a mistake.
On the other hand, big companies can be pretty frustrating/impossible to deal with if you want anything outside of their typical transaction. Some of the people who had bad experiences were probably not their typical customer, and they won't waste time catering or bending policy just to please a few people. Apparently Dell has a policy of not shipping any computers to a retailer unless they have a customer lined up to buy it immediately - the computer store I worked at was a Dell retailer but we weren't able to sell any Dell computers because everyone would buy it straight from them, so we never made any money from it. |
I didn't mean to imply that RR was biased, but I just find it strange that when posters here find their favored sellers panned there they start casting aspersions on the validity of the ratings.
I use RR whenever I am confronted with buying from a vendor unknown to me. Of course the ratings are generated mostly by negative reviewers, that's only human nature. The ratings are only valid for comparing among alternative sellers, not in any absolute sense.
I know a guy who used to work with me who sells, services, and installs computers and sets up networks for small businesses, schools, etc. He says that most of his customers ask for Dell. He thinks there quality control is weak because his customers report lots of hardware failures. But he doesn't mind selling them because Dell allows him a fat mark-up, and won't let him do any warranty work. If anything goes wrong all he has to do is give his customer a toll free number. Dell will sell them to him a half dozen at a time and he usually has a couple of unopened ones in the trunk of his car. But the negative is that his Dell sales don't generate repeat customers out of the first time buyers.
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07/21/2006 07:28:22 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
I didn't mean to imply that RR was biased, but I just find it strange that when posters here find their favored sellers panned there they start casting aspersions on the validity of the ratings. |
Who did that??? I have re-read the posts and have found no comments remotely close to what you are advocating in this instance. The mere fact that one can might question the validity of a finding is NOT to be construed as falling into the realm of "Casting Aspersion".
Similarly, the fact that you know of individual who has one specific set of experiences with a company cannot be viewed as being representative of all transactions of the said company.
The fact is that you seemingly do not like, trust or wish to avail yourself of the products of DELL, which is your right. You are free to express your views in this regard, but it would be nice if you could do so without seemingly questioning the motives and/or integrity of others.
Ray
Message edited by author 2006-07-22 13:06:55. |
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07/21/2006 07:54:52 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
...his Dell sales don't generate repeat customers out of the first time buyers. |
Yet, somehow, they've been at or near the top of the computer food chain for many years. That's not possible without a LOT of repeat business and positive experiences. Similarly, SonyStyle has a terrible rating, but few people would bother checking resellerratings for such a "known" company as Dell or Sony. Actually, had I known their rating was so low, I still would have posted because my own experiences have been positive, and because (call me crazy) I consider #25 on the Fortune 500 to be a sign of a reputable company. ;-/
Message edited by author 2006-07-21 20:01:07. |
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07/22/2006 10:58:09 AM · #40 |
Thank you for shopping with Dell!
Congratulations! Your order shipped on
07-21-2006
Yayayayayayay! :D
btw - I've bought 3 computers from Dell in the past 5 years, one just a month ago and have never had a problem with their products, service or price.
Message edited by author 2006-07-22 10:59:06.
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07/22/2006 11:26:14 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by idnic:
Thank you for shopping with Dell!
Congratulations! Your order shipped on
07-21-2006
Yayayayayayay! :D
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Showoff!!! ;-) Good luck with the new camera! |
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07/22/2006 11:55:25 AM · #42 |
Hummmm, Dell I've bought8 desktops, two laptops, my 20D, lenses, extra monitors. Eveyone arrived before the expected delivery date. Last week one of my LCD monitors seemsed to have a few pixels dim, I called tech support and got someone in Pakistan or India ... very friendly but they are the ones causing most consumer warantee complaints. After 30 minutes talking to them I opened up the on-lone chat with a tech in the US. Within 4 minutes of typed chat a new monitor was on the way, arrived two days later. The whole time India was still on hold with me.
Answer ... if you get connected to India ask for level 2 tech support in the USA immediately, much better customer service. Dell is great, Dell in India sucks.
p.s. Oh by the way, if anyone is in the military the AAFES BX / PX system sell through Dell and usually the price is much better and no taxes.
Message edited by author 2006-07-22 11:56:37.
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07/22/2006 08:54:02 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Yet, somehow, they've been at or near the top of the computer food chain for many years. That's not possible without a LOT of repeat business and positive experiences. Similarly, SonyStyle has a terrible rating, but few people would bother checking resellerratings for such a "known" company as Dell or Sony. Actually, had I known their rating was so low, I still would have posted because my own experiences have been positive, and because (call me crazy) I consider #25 on the Fortune 500 to be a sign of a reputable company. ;-/ |
Reminds me a bit of AOL. They were at the top of the ISP food chain for a long time. They always had the top numbers for new customers and total customers. But they also had the worst numbers for customer retention. People who had never had an internet experience were flocking to them in droves. But once they became more net savy they were switching to other providers fast. AOL was always able to look good by attracting the newbies but couldn't keep `em down on the farm after they had a dose of the world wide web.
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07/22/2006 11:39:18 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
...Reminds me a bit of AOL. |
I must be missing something here. You make mention of AOL who were/are wholly associated with the product they are marketing, and then strive to compare it to DELL, who has no link whatsoever with the production of the item in question... namely a camera which is made by Canon.
What the people are buying here are cameras... nothing more... and saving money in the process. Given your scenario, DELL is a neer-do-well who will, in time, suffer the wrath of consumers. In the interim, more power to those who will be saving money whilst getting a product they truly want.
I applaud your concerns, but there are times it is truly best to let people learn for themselves, and this I earnestly believe is one of them. From my personal experiences thus far, and from the comments made to date, it would seem that DELL has fared rather well with customer satisfaction in this regard.
We purchased and are happy... you haven't and yet arent...Makes one ponder.
Ray
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07/23/2006 04:07:41 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by coolhar:
...Reminds me a bit of AOL. |
I must be missing something here. You make mention of AOL who were/are wholly associated with the product they are marketing, and then strive to compare it to DELL, who has no link whatsoever with the production of the item in question... namely a camera which is made by Canon.
What the people are buying here are cameras... nothing more... and saving money in the process. Given your scenario, DELL is a neer-do-well who will, in time, suffer the wrath of consumers. In the interim, more power to those who will be saving money whilst getting a product they truly want.
I applaud your concerns, but there are times it is truly best to let people learn for themselves, and this I earnestly believe is one of them. From my personal experiences thus far, and from the comments made to date, it would seem that DELL has fared rather well with customer satisfaction in this regard.
We purchased and are happy... you haven't and yet arent...Makes one ponder.
Ray |
Ray, have you read the entire thread? I tried to buy from Dell and had a bad experience.
I find it difficult to consider Dell as having "fared rather well with customer satisfaction" with the ratings mentioned by mk.
Originally posted by mk:
...their six month rating is 3.8 and lifetime rating is 4.37 |
Just for reference here are the resellerratings.com scores of a couple of other popular online stores:
B & H Photo - 6 month = 9.52, lifetime = 9.30
Amazon.com - 6 month = 6.54, lifetime = 6.23
An "Average Store" scores 7.12 at resellerratings.
Message edited by author 2006-07-23 04:26:15.
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07/23/2006 12:28:50 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Just for reference here are the resellerratings.com scores of a couple of other popular online stores:
B & H Photo - 6 month = 9.52, lifetime = 9.30
Amazon.com - 6 month = 6.54, lifetime = 6.23
An "Average Store" scores 7.12 at resellerratings. |
Wow, I'm surprised at the Amazon rating. I've bought TONS of stuff from them over the years with no problems. I even got my 70-200IS direct from Amazon and had it the next day after ordering.
Like mentioned before, maybe some of the lower ratings are from when people only give negative feedback when something goes wrong with their order. It's expected that a company completes an order with no problems, and most people don't praise a company for simply doing their job. |
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07/23/2006 08:10:13 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Telehubbie:
... Like mentioned before, maybe some of the lower ratings are from when people only give negative feedback when something goes wrong with their order. It's expected that a company completes an order with no problems, and most people don't praise a company for simply doing their job. |
I tend to agree that the ratings come mostly from people who have a bad experience, but that should apply across the board to all merchants. The merchants with the lowest ratings are still worse than the merchants with higher ones.
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07/24/2006 02:19:08 PM · #48 |
Just arrived, no complaints from me! :)
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07/24/2006 02:20:32 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by idnic:
Just arrived, no complaints from me! :) |
Far Out! A new Camera Wooo Hooo!
:-P |
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07/24/2006 02:21:23 PM · #50 |
| Wow, that was quick! Be sure and give them a good rating. ;-) |
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