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07/20/2006 09:42:48 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
...If you are not adjusting things like color and contrast then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. |
true...
and that is even done with film photos... touch-ups done with film photos.
I used to think "out-of-camera" photos are the best, but I changed my mind. At least some color adjustments and contrast should be done... I still don't like to do heavy adjustments or layers though... making it more than what I actually am... that's not my point doing photography (no offence to those who do it... personal choice) |
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07/20/2006 09:44:11 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
Originally posted by amber:
Before I upset people, this is just my own view and not intended to garner death threats. I take basic editing to mean you can barely touch your image except for the normal adjustments, gaussian blur and neat image. So that's all I do ( as my attempts show). Is it really worth the effort to try and push every boundary? To push every rule? To try and find loop-holes or get-out clauses? |
If you are not adjusting things like color and contrast then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. |
I suspect that's what she means by "normal adjustments." |
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07/20/2006 09:46:54 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
Originally posted by amber:
Before I upset people, this is just my own view and not intended to garner death threats. I take basic editing to mean you can barely touch your image except for the normal adjustments, gaussian blur and neat image. So that's all I do ( as my attempts show). Is it really worth the effort to try and push every boundary? To push every rule? To try and find loop-holes or get-out clauses? |
If you are not adjusting things like color and contrast then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. |
I suspect that's what she means by "normal adjustments." |
I see that now. I read it as the normal adjustments that are Gaussian blur and neat image not the normal adjustments AND gaussian blur and neat image. I'm an idiot. |
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07/20/2006 10:02:29 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Basic Editing Rules:
...no effects filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur, which are allowed. |
That's pretty clear IMO. While lens correction might be considered "preserving image integrity," it's an effects filter unrelated to noise and blur/sharpen, and SC has consistently voted against it in Basic. Future rules may allow limited lens corrections (to fix defects), but in this case the distortion was applied to change the intended design of the lens, so it's a moot point. |
What's unclear to me is whether certain filters or correction tools would be considered effects filters. Lens correction tools are designed to correct lens distortion, not to produce an effect, IMO. |
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07/20/2006 10:03:24 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by gayle43103:
...That's why I like the advance editing challenges, it allows me to flick the stupid sensor dust that always seems to show up on my good photos...lol!! This will be an ongoing battle of the "rules".
g |
This is way off subject...but you're getting sensor dust on your E-500? Isn't you're SSWF working? If you're getting sensor dust I'd be more concerned about that than how to get rid of it in editing.
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07/20/2006 10:05:31 AM · #31 |
but they do produce an effect - the effect of a non distorted lens
if this effect were applied to a normal image, this debate wouldn't even be happening, everyone would agree with the dq.
Originally posted by Keith Maniac:
Lens correction tools are designed to correct lens distortion, not to produce an effect, IMO. |
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07/20/2006 10:09:09 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by hopper:
but they do produce an effect - the effect of a non distorted lens
if this effect were applied to a normal image, this debate wouldn't even be happening, everyone would agree with the dq.
Originally posted by Keith Maniac:
Lens correction tools are designed to correct lens distortion, not to produce an effect, IMO. |
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Arguably, yes. But the point is that you could argue it either way, and therefore the rules are unclear. |
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07/20/2006 10:12:26 AM · #33 |
nevermind i cant read hahaha
Message edited by author 2006-07-20 10:13:10.
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07/20/2006 10:24:10 AM · #34 |
| how then can selective color correctionb be allowed. In this case only the pixels for the color selected are changed. That seems like it should not be allowed. Same goes for channel mixer or channels. There individual "selected" pixels are being changed while the adjoining pixels are not. The rules are still far too confusing on what is allowed, especially when they are comared to PS type filters and not everyone uses PS. The rules somehow really do need to be clarified. SOooo slight straightening of lines using PS CS2 distort and Lens correction is also not legal except in advanced? SC's ya'l have a very difficult job, thanks for your work. |
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07/20/2006 10:27:08 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
how then can selective color correctionb be allowed. In this case only the pixels for the color selected are changed. That seems like it should not be allowed. Same goes for channel mixer or channels. There individual "selected" pixels are being changed while the adjoining pixels are not. The rules are still far too confusing on what is allowed, especially when they are comared to PS type filters and not everyone uses PS. The rules somehow really do need to be clarified. SOooo slight straightening of lines using PS CS2 distort and Lens correction is also not legal except in advanced? SC's ya'l have a very difficult job, thanks for your work. |
If that were the case, then Levels and Curves would be illegal as well since you can affect only the light/mid/low level pixels. Personally, I think the basic rules are fairly easy to understand - basic adjustments - nothing heroic. That is all.
Message edited by author 2006-07-20 10:27:27. |
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07/20/2006 10:40:21 AM · #36 |
Pardon me if this is clearly answered elsewhere.
"SOooo slight straightening of lines using PS CS2 distort and Lens correction is also not legal except in advanced?"
I'm confused how an "edit tool" can garner a DQ based on a "filter" rule.
Is fixing slight perpective and/or lens distortions such as the mentioned sloped horizon example for normal non fisheye lenses not allowed in basic?
Also, what is the reality of the aforementioned on topic debate held 7 months or so ago?
"There was a discussion about seven months to a year ago where we talked about distortion correction being ok in basic and it was confirmed."
Please clarify.
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07/20/2006 10:42:45 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by rswank:
Pardon me if this is clearly answered elsewhere.
"SOooo slight straightening of lines using PS CS2 distort and Lens correction is also not legal except in advanced?"
I'm confused how an "edit tool" can garner a DQ based on a "filter" rule.
Is fixing slight perpective and/or lens distortions such as the mentioned sloped horizon example for normal non fisheye lenses not allowed in basic?
Also, what is the reality of the aforementioned on topic debate held 7 months or so ago?
"There was a discussion about seven months to a year ago where we talked about distortion correction being ok in basic and it was confirmed."
Please clarify. |
Lens correction is a filter not an adjustment tool. moving any lines in basic is not allowed. |
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07/20/2006 10:49:57 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
Lens correction is a filter not an adjustment tool. moving any lines in basic is not allowed. |
Sorry if dense, but how is it considered a filter when I don't see it listed in the filter drop down on my copy of PS CS1 ?
And in Capture NX it is listed as "distortion control" under "Adjust" NOT "Filter". |
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07/20/2006 10:57:05 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by rswank:
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
Lens correction is a filter not an adjustment tool. moving any lines in basic is not allowed. |
Sorry if dense, but how is it considered a filter when I don't see it listed in the filter drop down on my copy of PS CS1 ?
And in Capture NX it is listed as "distortion control" under "Adjust" NOT "Filter". |
in CS2 it is under filter>distort>lens correction not sure if it is different in CS1 |
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07/20/2006 11:11:47 AM · #40 |
The name and location of the tool aren't really all that important. "Photo Filter" is legal in Basic despite the name, and lens correction is named/located differently in other applications. The bigger issue is that it distorts the image (like Liquify, Free Distort, Perspective, etc.) and distorting your image is considered an effect even if it's used correctively. I think it's generally understood that you couldn't use Perspective to correct wide angle distortion on a shot of a skyscraper. Lens Correction is really no different.
As I noted earlier, this may change in the future. |
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07/20/2006 11:14:40 AM · #41 |
I think I'm going to view basic editing as "take a damn good pic from your camera" so post processing is a moot point (to a certain extent of course.) Erm...
Message edited by author 2006-07-20 12:05:33. |
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07/20/2006 11:15:10 AM · #42 |
yeah i am still a bit surprised by this decision
I posted the original so that you can see how much change was done to it, looking back on it, and if i known, i would have just cropped it as the result is almost the same
the plug in filter i used is 'imagealingPRO'
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07/20/2006 11:22:15 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by marycciu:
I think I'm going to view basic editing as "take a damn good pic from your camera" so post processing is a mute point (to a certain extent of course. Erm... |
Shouldn't all your photography be that way?
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07/20/2006 11:23:55 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by Pano:
yeah i am still a bit surprised by this decision
I posted the original so that you can see how much change was done to it, looking back on it, and if i known, i would have just cropped it as the result is almost the same
the plug in filter i used is 'imagealingPRO'
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I think this is an EXCELLENT photo... I had SAME exact thing in my mind for "Stationary" challenge, but never got a chance to visit a harbor...
It's great work, and shame DQed :(
Go PENTAX... |
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07/20/2006 11:24:10 AM · #45 |
I really didn't want to open this can of worms again. But by the last few thread entries it is easy to see where people are still confused. When the rules use Photoshop actions or filters or whatever as an example it gets confusing. As we can see there is a huge difference between previous versions of PS and the newer PS CS2. Things that were adjustments are now filters and things get moved around. I suspect the next version when it has many of the Lightroom features integrated will be even different. I know it is difficult to set hard and fast rules. I don't think I'm confused too much but I sure hate to see newbies get DQ'd because of confusion between filters and adjustments and selection etc.
Would it not be eaier to plainly list say 5 things that can be done and drop the PS equivalent. Such as
"without selecting any pixel or specific part of a photo you may use your processing program to sharpen, soften, adjust contrast, curves, adjust levels, crop, or convert to B&W or variations. You may use any function under your processing program that is listed as a filter as long as it was supplied by that specific program as a default. No home-made or aftermarket actions, filters or adjustment tools can be used other than conversion from RAW to RGB or Adobe format after which the default parameters of you processing program comes into affect."
Just look at the advanced winners in many challenges. Some or more art work than photo. The over processing has taken the original photos and changed it in such a way that it is no longer a true represetation of what the photographer captured. That's great, we need this kind of wide-open challenge but the basic really needs to get back to basics. Not straight out of the camera basic but simplified more to that standard. AND WOW ... some of the straight out of the camera entries were pretty darn good.
Once the newbies become proficient with both taking photos and the abilities within their programs, most photos will look outstanding without selection type adjustments. Again, I just really do not like to see newbies DQ'd when there was confusion or no attempt at trying to cheat. |
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07/20/2006 11:30:57 AM · #46 |
What parts of the rules are Photoshop specific that don't include explanations directly following?
Originally posted by rules:
Post-shot Adjustments may be made to your image in a photo editing program, so long as the modification is applied to the whole image. This includes levels, conversion to black and white, hue/saturation, sizing/rotating, curves and cropping (or their non-Photoshop equivalents). The use of certain editing and adjustment tools is restricted or prohibited as outlined below.
* Filters: The use of filters (or non-Photoshop equivalent) is strictly limited. Any filter or stand-alone utility designed and used to preserve the integrity of the image and/or reduce the effects of noise, scratches, etc, are permitted. These include but are not limited to the Sharpen, Unsharp Mask, and Dust & Scratches filters, and standalone image cleanup utilities such as NeatImage. However, no effects filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur, which are allowed. Any filter permitted by this rule must be applied uniformly to the entire image. Selective application of any filter is prohibited.
* Spot-Editing: Absolutely no spot-editing is allowed. This includes, but is not limited to drawing tools, dodging/burning tools, and cloning tools. Additionally, the use of any type of selection tool is prohibited except to select a non-feathered, non-anti-aliased rectangular area for cropping.
* Layers: Only Adjustment Layers (or the non-Photoshop equivalent) may be used. An Adjustment Layer is one that does not contain any pixel data, but rather is a special, non-image layer that lets you experiment with color and tonal adjustments to an image without permanently modifying the pixels. Adjustment Layers must be applied in Normal mode. All other types of layers (including those that contain pixel data or masks) and all other blending methods (modes) are prohibited. Changing the opacity of an Adjustment Layer is permitted.
* Borders: It is suggested that if you decide to use a border, you should only use one or two solid colors around the outside of your photo. However, alternative borders are allowed, as long as they do not contain any text, clip art, photographs, or other artwork.
* No text may be added to your submission. This includes copyright statements.
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In addition to being incorrect, I'm not sure how your suggested paragraph is an easier explanation. |
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07/20/2006 11:36:38 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by focuspoint:
It's great work, and shame DQed :(
Go PENTAX... |
thanks dude
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07/20/2006 11:42:14 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by marycciu:
I think I'm going to view basic editing as "take a damn good pic from your camera" so post processing is a mute point (to a certain extent of course. Erm... |
Shouldn't all your photography be that way? |
No. Her photos should be whatever she wants them to be and not what YOU want them to be. |
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07/20/2006 11:45:26 AM · #49 |
| Great photo Pano, yup crop next time. The persepective was perfect and the subject right on the mark, good work. |
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07/20/2006 11:48:09 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by Pano:
if i known, i would have just cropped it as the result is almost the same |
It's a shame you didn't. That's a great shot, and the fisheye just adds more drama IMO. |
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