Macro using 50mm reversed - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

07/20/2006 08:51:27 AM · #1

Hey everybody. I've seen a couple of older threads on this but haven't found answers to all of my questions...

I'm looking to purchase a 50mm prime lens to use for extreme macro shots. From what I've read and have been told, you want to set the 50mm aperture wide open and focus to infinity. No sweat doing this with a manual focus lens - how do you do this with an AF lens when it's not attached to the camera? Can you?

I ask because I would prefer to buy an AF lens to use it for other purposes besides extreme macro on occasion. Yes, I know I can use a manual lens but I'm spoiled and prefer AF for general walking around photography. ;^)

Also, how can I tell if the lens will fit the mount of my Konica-Minolta 5D? Will all older minolta lens fit? For example, this lens looks interesting: Minolta Rokkor-X 50mm f/1.4 I'm not familiar with the "Rokkor" part of this description.

I'll be using a macro coupler ring to match whatever 50mm I get to my Tamron 90mm Macro lens.

Any help and feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Barry

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

07/20/2006 09:03:12 AM · #2

some lenses are wide open when not attached to a camera, some are closed. Buying one which is open all the time would prevent the need to somehow open the lens (perhaps a piece of tape, maybe, I'm not sure).

I can't answer the specifics on lenses for your camera ... I'm a canon guy. Sorry.

ignite

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

07/20/2006 09:04:02 AM · #3

Hmm, I always thought all lenses had both AF and MF options, with a focus ring. You will mount the 50mm reversed to the telephoto lens I assume. 90mm will not be enough. People generally use 300mm for reverse macros.

The lens you have mentioned is a Manual focus lens. So one problem solved. The aperture is usually set by opening it wide open on camera, and then gently removing the lens while the camera is on.

Of course, someone who's actually done this will be able to help you better ;-)

Message edited by author 2006-07-20 09:08:57.

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

07/20/2006 09:05:12 AM · #4

I'd like to also add that I have MUCH better results with extension tubes rather than reversing a lens, but you won't get as much macro capability.

I've never had good success reversing a 50 ... but others have. Just personal opinion.

Message edited by author 2006-07-20 09:05:52.

Elvis_L

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/20/2006 09:25:18 AM · #5

I have used my 50 1.8 reversed on my 70-300 with pretty good results. without worrying about the apeture. I will second Hopper's sugesstion of extension tubes instead. the effect isn't quite as dramatic but with the 3 on all at the same time on my 50mm I can get VERY close. with a better DOF

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

07/20/2006 09:27:11 AM · #6

I'm just getting ready to try this myself but according to this tutorial, a wad of paper will do it.

ShaneBlake

Nikon D7100

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Nikon

07/20/2006 09:29:11 AM · #7

Originally posted by glad2badad:

auto focus lenses can be manually focused to infinity when they're off camera. there are, however, some lenses these days which do not have an aperture ring, so avoid these...

here are some examples of a reversed nikkor 50mm on the tamron 90mm macro :

just remember... you're going to get wicked shallow dof and you'll need a TON of light...

hyperfocal

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

07/20/2006 09:34:02 AM · #8

Originally posted by glad2badad:

From what I've read and have been told, you want to set the 50mm aperture wide open and focus to infinity.

yes, if you are mounting the lens on an another lens. But if you plan to just reverse the lens on the body, you will want aperature control. Either way there is no need to get an AF lens when the market is flooded with inexpensive MF lenses. And of course the lens doesn't have to be a minolta, just the filter threads will be used.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

07/20/2006 09:41:10 AM · #9

If your target is to use the lens as a normal 50mm lens at times, then you'll definitely want a Minolta lens, and you might as well get a modern AF lens. 50mm lenses are usually not expensive, so you're not going to save a fistfull of dollars by buying an old manual lens.
You can check one of your current lenses when it is off the camera to see if the aperture is fully open when detached. That's normally the case, but not always, and I'm not sure if it is true for the Minolta system. If it is not, you will either need a way to get it to stay open, or go with a manual lens that has an aperture setting ring on the lens.

07/20/2006 10:03:34 AM · #10

Wow! Thanks everyone for the fantastic feedback! Very much appreciated.

MK - I hadn't seen that tutorial. Funny, here I was spending time trying to find related threads. ;^)

Speaking of which - this one was decent: Can someone explain the reverse 50mm macro...

From that thread there was a link to this guy, some good info and fantastic bug shots: Plonsky - Macrophotography Article

An image by kosmikkreeper (who has been very helpful via PM's BTW) in this thread Nasty Spider...what is it? is what became my motivator to pursue this.

Jacko has some very nice images using this technique also. I'm sure there are many others...I just happened to notice some of his.

Kirbic - You're right about my wanting to use the 50mm for both macro and general use. I've seen some really inexpensive ($15-20) older manual 50mm lens that I might start with just to try this...

Again, thanks to all for your help.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

07/20/2006 10:08:43 AM · #11

Crud. I forgot a question.

Is there that much difference in speed from a 1.4 vs a 1.7 aperture? I'm seeing both out there. Obviously the 1.4 costs more - is it that different, especially considering the use (extreme macro reverse lens hookup)?

Thanks again.

Elvis_L

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/20/2006 10:14:35 AM · #12

Originally posted by glad2badad:

I would say that you wouldn't want the 1.4. I am not possitive if reversing has the same effects but you wouldn't want any shallower DOF. with the 50 reversed on my 300 the DOF is SO shallow, anymore would be almost unusable

nova

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 35mm f/1.4L USM

07/20/2006 10:14:37 AM · #13

Barry, the old Minolta ROKKOR-X designates their good stuff, like Canon "L" now. And that 1.4 vs 1.7 in MY opinion isn't worth the difference in cost unless it's just a few dollars... but yeah it will be faster and also give you even shallower dof for those macros.

Good to 'see' you, hope you are loving the job changes (heh heh).

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

07/20/2006 10:14:56 AM · #14

the more a lens can open (1.4 being bigger), the less chance there is of vignetting (dark corners) ... that's about the only difference for macro work.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

07/20/2006 10:20:16 AM · #15

Great. Thanks again! The 1.7 is sounding like the winner.

Nova - New job is "OK", the new commute sucks! ;^)

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

07/20/2006 10:43:04 AM · #16

Originally posted by hopper:

the more a lens can open (1.4 being bigger), the less chance there is of vignetting (dark corners) ... that's about the only difference for macro work.

Originally posted by glad2badad:
Crud. I forgot a question.

Is there that much difference in speed from a 1.4 vs a 1.7 aperture? I'm seeing both out there. Obviously the 1.4 costs more - is it that different, especially considering the use (extreme macro reverse lens hookup)?

Thanks again.

Agree. There will be no difference in DoF. The 50mm lens only needs sufficient aperture to assure there will be no mechanical vignetting, anything more is just extra glass. I suspect that with a cropped cam, you won't see mechanical vignetting with a 1.7, unless the effective aperture of the main lens is quite a bit larger.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/20/2006 10:49:19 AM · #17

Done. $23.95 including shipping. ;^) Such a bargain. He-he.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

07/20/2006 10:58:19 AM · #18

Not sure if this is helpful but I've been using a 1.4 reversed right on the camera with a reversal ring (given, I use a Nikon). Anyway, I agree, the DOF is extremely small, even at f16 ... However, If you can get 6in from the subject and all is still ... you can get a decent shot.

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Nikon

07/20/2006 11:07:22 AM · #19

Originally posted by metatate:

Stunning capture there tate!!!

I guess you could use a reverse ring on many different lenses - yes? I've also heard the reverse ring adapters are a bit more expensive than macro couplers...

ShaneBlake

Nikon D7100

07/20/2006 12:19:03 PM · #20

Originally posted by glad2badad:

I guess you could use a reverse ring on many different lenses - yes? I've also heard the reverse ring adapters are a bit more expensive than macro couplers...

they're not that much more than the couplers, really... about $25 if i remember correctly...

i got one for christmas, though i've not used it very much. i had trouble w/ the flash not firing in remote mode... i guess i should try again now that i've added a sb-800 to my collection...

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/20/2006 12:29:21 PM · #21

Here's a trick you can at least do on a Canon. I'm not sure if it will work on the Minolta. Put your 50mm on the camera, set to the aperture you want, push the button that lets you view through that aperture (usually used to check DOF), and while the button is pushed, remove the lens. The aperture stays to what it was set at.

I goofed a bit with reversing and actually I wanted to set the aperture to something much smaller to try to maximize the DOF. at 1.8 your DOF on a reversed lens will be literally a few mm at best.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/20/2006 12:29:38 PM · #22

on my d70 the flash wont fire, focus is manual and so is aperture.
I don't know ANYTHING about other cameras :]

Phil

Canon EOS-7D

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

07/20/2006 12:33:49 PM · #23

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Not on Minolta Doc. KM lenses are spring loaded and pushed via slider in the camera. He'll definitely have to wedge it open with something.

Phil

Canon EOS-7D

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

07/20/2006 12:36:11 PM · #24

Originally posted by mk:

I'm just getting ready to try this myself but according to this tutorial, a wad of paper will do it.

That is not a wad of paper mk. It is a high tech product from dudephil Industries that can be available to anyone who sends $30 and a self address stamped envelope.

Anyone?

Hello?