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DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> DNMC vote option?
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 07/19/2006 08:52:29 PM · #1
I don't know if this would be easy to implement or not, but I know I, and I'm sure others, have had some "out of the box" shots that scored low due to voters feeling that it did not meet the challenge and voting 1,2, or 3 based on this alone. The problem with this as I see it is that the final score doesn't give the photographer a good handle on whether he was voted down for problems with challenge photo selection or compositional and post processing problems.
Would it be possible to have a DNMC vote option that could count against the overall score in final tabulations but could be separated out from the other votes in the bar graph at the end of the challenge to give the photographer a better idea of whether it was the chosen shot or technical problems that affected the score?
If possible this system would still prevent contributors from straying too far from the challenge theme by lowering scores for off topic entries while giving better feedback to the photographer as well by letting him or her know whether the entry was good but just off base for the challenge or if the photo itself was subpar in the eyes of the voters. If this has already been mentioned and rejected feel free to let me know why this wouldn't work or would be undesirable. If not I hope that it could be seriously considered.

Message edited by author 2006-07-19 20:55:19.
 07/19/2006 08:55:53 PM · #2
Originally posted by EricMGB1974:
I don't know if this would be easy to implement or not, but I know I, and I'm sure others, have had some "out of the box" shots that scored low due to voters feeling that it did not meet the challenge and voting 1,2, or 3 based on this alone. The problem with this as I see it is that the final score doesn't give the photographer a good handle on whether he was voted down for problems with challenge photo selection or compositional and post processing problems.
Would it be possible to have a DNMC vote option that could count against the overall score in final tabulations but could be separated out from the other votes in the bar graph at the end of the challenge to give the photographer a better idea of whether it was the chosen shot or technical problems that affected the score?
If possible this system would still prevent contributors from straying too far from the challenge theme by lowering scores for off topic entries while giving better feedback to the photographer as well. If this has already been mentioned and rejected feel free to say why this wouldn't work or would be undesirable. If not I hope that it could be seriously considered.


I would suggest this just become a checkbox that has no bearing on scoring. I think it would be interesting to see the "Avg vote w/ DNMC" and/or "Avg vote w/o DNMC" statistics.
07/19/2006 08:58:11 PM · #3
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Originally posted by EricMGB1974:
I don't know if this would be easy to implement or not, but I know I, and I'm sure others, have had some "out of the box" shots that scored low due to voters feeling that it did not meet the challenge and voting 1,2, or 3 based on this alone. The problem with this as I see it is that the final score doesn't give the photographer a good handle on whether he was voted down for problems with challenge photo selection or compositional and post processing problems.
Would it be possible to have a DNMC vote option that could count against the overall score in final tabulations but could be separated out from the other votes in the bar graph at the end of the challenge to give the photographer a better idea of whether it was the chosen shot or technical problems that affected the score?
If possible this system would still prevent contributors from straying too far from the challenge theme by lowering scores for off topic entries while giving better feedback to the photographer as well. If this has already been mentioned and rejected feel free to say why this wouldn't work or would be undesirable. If not I hope that it could be seriously considered.


I would suggest this just become a checkbox that has no bearing on scoring. I think it would be interesting to see the "Avg vote w/ DNMC" and/or "Avg vote w/o DNMC" statistics.


I love this idea. i always wonder if people thought my submission DNMC.
 07/19/2006 09:00:29 PM · #4
Originally posted by Elvis_L:


I love this idea. i always wonder if people thought my submission DNMC.


whoops i was logged in as my husband. elvis_l

I like this idea alot. i dont know what he thinks about it. lol. :)
 07/19/2006 09:00:48 PM · #5
I agree a checkbox would be good.
 07/19/2006 09:04:15 PM · #6
I'm pretty sure some people vote lower because they personally don't like the image, should we have a checkbox for that as well? and maybe one for overexposed? etc etc? I'm pretty sure if you submit shots that might be shoehorned into meeting the challenge then some people will vote you down (as they do with a poorly taken shot) others of course will vote you higher as they 'see' what you were doing.

how does it go? "you can please all ......."
 07/19/2006 09:04:25 PM · #7
Currently the voting statistics are "clean," that is, they are not weighted or modified in any way, except to throw out votes from those who ovted less than 20% and those whose votes showed a pattern intended to sway voting, e.g. mostly ones.
There have been many suggestions that involve counting votes differently. The downfall of all of these, this one included, is that some votes are different than others. The impact of that is to greatly complicate (or negate the value of) any statistics calculated from the votes.
With regard to DNMC, it should be very apparent whether the voting population regarded a shot as meeting the challenge or not. When a large number of voters feel it DNMC, some of the following usually happen"
- Comments to that effect are made (even one or two are a tip-off)
- A spike of low scores appears that's larger than otheriwse expected
- The distribution of scores is skewed; it has a "shoulder" on the low side.

Any or all of these indicate a shot that either generated a negative reaction in many voters, or was seen to not meet the challenge. Usually you can sort out which it is.
 07/19/2006 11:20:15 PM · #8
Originally posted by kirbic:
Currently the voting statistics are "clean," that is, they are not weighted or modified in any way, except to throw out votes from those who ovted less than 20% and those whose votes showed a pattern intended to sway voting, e.g. mostly ones.
There have been many suggestions that involve counting votes differently. The downfall of all of these, this one included, is that some votes are different than others. The impact of that is to greatly complicate (or negate the value of) any statistics calculated from the votes.
With regard to DNMC, it should be very apparent whether the voting population regarded a shot as meeting the challenge or not. When a large number of voters feel it DNMC, some of the following usually happen"
- Comments to that effect are made (even one or two are a tip-off)
- A spike of low scores appears that's larger than otheriwse expected
- The distribution of scores is skewed; it has a "shoulder" on the low side.

Any or all of these indicate a shot that either generated a negative reaction in many voters, or was seen to not meet the challenge. Usually you can sort out which it is.


I don't necessarily see this as weighting the vote. It would rather be a way to better gauge the quality of the entry. I know my current entry is getting hit for DNMC, even though it actually does if the voters could see the commentary on where it was taken. However, I also know there are some technical deficiencies. What something like this would do, is tell me how badly others judge those deficiencies compared to my own level of self critique without confusing the issue by lumping in the low votes for the perceived DNMC. If DNMC was counted as a vote of one my score might actualy drop, as right now a voter can give a higher score to a DNMC, but the clearer picture of the voting pattern would make it more than worth it. If the point of the challenges is to improve photographically then providing more information is surely in the interest of the site.
07/19/2006 11:29:16 PM · #9
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
I'm pretty sure some people vote lower because they personally don't like the image, should we have a checkbox for that as well? and maybe one for overexposed? etc etc? I'm pretty sure if you submit shots that might be shoehorned into meeting the challenge then some people will vote you down (as they do with a poorly taken shot) others of course will vote you higher as they 'see' what you were doing.

how does it go? "you can please all ......."


I'm not advocating any large scale checkbox voting forms at all. I would just like a way to get a better feel for the viewer's perception of the photo. Are all the 1,2, and 3's DNMC votes or do they really think the photo is that bad? Right now, I don't always know. If the photo is fantastic, but borderline or able to be perceived as borderline, in meeting the challenge and it scores low, you have a good idea of what happened. If the photo's more mediocre and not a ribbon contender, like I'll admit most of mine are, the picture is a little less clear about why you have a 4.xxxx instead of the 5.xxx or low 6 you thought it would get.
 07/20/2006 12:13:51 AM · #10
it would be useful if the number of voters who checked the "dnmc" box is shown to the owner (only) after the voting period is over. At least we know how far off our entry was, at least to the voters opinion.
 07/20/2006 12:34:03 AM · #11
I like the check-box idea...and might be useful in scoring...but only if a certain amount of the voters checked the box so that there is a strong consensus that it DNMC.

Clint

07/20/2006 12:37:02 AM · #12
Originally posted by TomFoolery:
strong consensus

This is DPC. That is an oxymoron. :)
 07/20/2006 12:57:27 AM · #13
Haha...well if it was judged on how many people clicked the box it might be easy to see people agreeing to one thing...if only a few clicked the box then I wouldn't deem it DNMC.
07/20/2006 01:04:11 AM · #14
Originally posted by TomFoolery:
Haha...well if it was judged on how many people clicked the box it might be easy to see people agreeing to one thing...if only a few clicked the box then I wouldn't deem it DNMC.

I would bet money it would never be more than 50% DNMC even if you had titled it "Shoehorn" - just as there are the strict "DNMC Nazis" there are also lots of "I don't care about the challenge details, it's a great photo" or "I am open minded and can see the connection in an abstract way" type voters.
 07/20/2006 01:08:12 AM · #15
And then there are those that would say, "You want me to check that box...way too much work" Might think it's a DNMC image but don't want to be bothered with one more thing to click.
07/20/2006 01:18:05 AM · #16
Originally posted by TomFoolery:
And then there are those that would say, "You want me to check that box...way too much work" Might think it's a DNMC image but don't want to be bothered with one more thing to click.

Yeah, but we could have a checkbox for that. ;-)
 07/20/2006 01:25:03 AM · #17
Originally posted by TomFoolery:
And then there are those that would say, "You want me to check that box...way too much work" Might think it's a DNMC image but don't want to be bothered with one more thing to click.


hehe, lets turn the voting page into a long-20-page IRS form kinda thing :p
 07/20/2006 01:27:14 AM · #18
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by TomFoolery:
And then there are those that would say, "You want me to check that box...way too much work" Might think it's a DNMC image but don't want to be bothered with one more thing to click.


hehe, lets turn the voting page into a long-20-page IRS form kinda thing :p

"Remember, your votes will not count unless you file a schedule C, fill out worksheet K(3) and submit a W-43."

And voters should be audited.

Message edited by author 2006-07-20 01:27:31.
 07/20/2006 01:32:40 AM · #19
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
"Remember, your votes will not count unless you file a schedule C, fill out worksheet K(3) and submit a W-43."

And voters should be audited.


LMAO! classic
 07/20/2006 04:16:58 AM · #20
NOTICE

Your DNMC appeal was not filled out in the correct manner so it was Denied or DNMS (Did Not Meet Standards) Your photo has been deducted one point for the violation...Thank You.

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