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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> DSLR upgrade questions
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 07/17/2006 12:15:40 PM · #1
Hello all-

I feel like I should know WAY more about this than I do, but I've been looking at camera stats on dpreview.com and I'm kind of... baffled.

I have a Canon Digital Rebel (the 300, not the 350). I bought it in July of 2004 and I've taken about 20K exposures with it since then. Unfortunately, the poor thing is limping along at this point, with some body damage and a few... ahem... quirks. Like a mirror that sticks occasionally (despite the fact that I had it serviced a month ago) and an autofocus that's a bit tempermental and a host of other minor issues.

I just sold a couple of photos on Dreamstime for $400 and now I want to put that money toward a new Canon body. Unfortunately, I'm very stuck between the Rebel XT and the 20D.

I've borrowed a friend's XT and I feel like the shots are much clearer and the auto exposure when I use my flash is more accurate. It also seemed a lot faster to start up and wake up-- which is important, because I often take photos at events for my job.

I've never used a 20D, but I know it's more on the professional side of prosumer, as opposed to the XT which is more on the consumer side.

I mainly take photos of people (models, actors, portraits) along with the occasional event (people in action) for work. No sports, very few landscapes, no still lifes.

Should I skip the minor jump from the Rebel to the Rebel XT and go all the way to the 20D? Or should I buy the Rebel XT and put the difference in price toward a new lens or something? (I currently have the kit lens and a 50mm 1.8, which I LOVE. I need to eventually get something that's a faster telephoto.) I'm having a hard time understanding the difference between the XT and the 20D and which camera is better suited to which sorts of photographers. Can anyone clue me in?
 07/17/2006 12:19:20 PM · #2
Between those two models there is only one choice, get the 20D. But if you can stretch your budget a little furhter get the 30D for it's larger LCD.
 07/17/2006 12:22:20 PM · #3
20D.
As coolhar said if you can strech get the 30D.

Good luck.
 07/17/2006 12:54:55 PM · #4
30D
 07/17/2006 12:55:56 PM · #5
The 20D is a great camera, you certainly wouldn't regret upgrading. It's also faster in both startup, lag time and frames per second than the 350, if that sort of thing is important to you.

Of course the start up to shot time will take a hit when you upgrade, as you ponder the myriad options available to you before you press the shutter, but that will soon pass :)
 07/17/2006 01:01:50 PM · #6
Well, I'll be the first to disagree with the masses.

100% of the online reviews will tell you that the image quality of those 2 cameras is identical. You don't seem to need a PC connection, you'll most likely never use iso3200 - and the money you'll save will land you a canon 85mm 1.8, 100mm f2, or a head start on something longer.

Save the money for the glass (my opinion).
 07/17/2006 01:15:37 PM · #7
Originally posted by hopper:
Well, I'll be the first to disagree with the masses.

100% of the online reviews will tell you that the image quality of those 2 cameras is identical.


The 20D exhibits less noise at higher ISO, I think that's about all.

The differences in general aren't with the image quality, but more to do with form and function of the camera.

It might be worth handling the 20D / 30D in a shop to see if you like the feel compared your old camera.

The 30D also adds spot metering.
 07/17/2006 01:16:31 PM · #8
I vote 20D. You can get one for about a hundred bucks more than retail on a 350 if you look in your local market or online...

That hundred bucks isn't going to get you much of a glass upgrade.

It will get you a very significant performance upgrade though.

A few aspects of shooting the 20D/30D make it worthwhile because of less time spent working the equipment IMHO.

I'm a fan of the 350, but I do feel that the 20D is a bit better in the bang for the buck department if you can find one for around 800 bucks US.

You've already been successful with the LCD on the 300D, so you probably will be just fine with the 20D's screen.
 07/17/2006 01:33:58 PM · #9
Originally posted by mist:
The 20D is a great camera, you certainly wouldn't regret upgrading. It's also faster in both startup, lag time and frames per second than the 350, if that sort of thing is important to you.

Of course the start up to shot time will take a hit when you upgrade, as you ponder the myriad options available to you before you press the shutter, but that will soon pass :)


Actually they have identical start up times of .2 seconds and the XT has less shutter lag than the 20D. The XT is .001 and the 20D is less than .01 in the lag department. The 20D has more to offer over-all like a faster flash sync speed, higher ISO values, more FPS, more shutter speed options and more AF points to mention a few. Image quality is not a factor although the 20D has a few more pixels which are irrelevant.

Message edited by author 2006-07-17 13:35:03.
 07/17/2006 02:13:16 PM · #10
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
the XT has less shutter lag than the 20D. The XT is .001 and the 20D is less than .01 in the lag department.


I was sure when I got the 20D that I'd read otherwise, and I had

[quote]
The shutter lag time of the EOS 20D is 65ms, the shutter lag time of the Digital Rebel XT is 100ms.
[/quote]

I guess you can use figures to prove anything. My revised point of view is that both cameras are "fairly quick".
 07/17/2006 02:27:05 PM · #11
I was night shooting with some friends. With my XT I'd take a 10 minute shutter shot and the camera was ready to take the next shot instantly. With the 20D they would have to wait 10 minutes for the camera to process after the shot? Not sure why?

Lowest prices at reputable sellers per epinions.com:
Newegg.com has the XT for $650
Buydig.com has the 20D for $989

If you won't need ISO 3200, 5fps and a flash synch plug in, I'd save $340 and get the XT unless the feel is that important to you. Although for $340 you could easily get a nice wireless flash synch...

Photo quality is the same, but the XT is smaller and lighter (which seems to be advantagous in just about every realm of electronics except photography where bigger seems to be better?).


07/17/2006 02:36:24 PM · #12
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I was night shooting with some friends. With my XT I'd take a 10 minute shutter shot and the camera was ready to take the next shot instantly. With the 20D they would have to wait 10 minutes for the camera to process after the shot? Not sure why?



they had in camera noise reduction on. it is in the custom functions. your camera can do it too.

as you can see by my profile i have used both styles and am about to upgrade my 10d to the 30d (for the record the 350 and 5d are my wife's and the 10d is mine) i personally like the 10/20/30d setup better. I woudl recomend going with the 20d. as far as the bigger screen on the 30d that is a reason I am upgrading to that. after using my wife's 5d then going to the smaller screen i need it. if i had never used it i would have been ok. the 20/30d are a good bit bigger and heavier than the 350 which I like but you may want to actually hold one to make sure you like the added size.

Message edited by author 2006-07-17 14:36:52.
 07/17/2006 02:53:56 PM · #13
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I was night shooting with some friends. With my XT I'd take a 10 minute shutter shot and the camera was ready to take the next shot instantly. With the 20D they would have to wait 10 minutes for the camera to process after the shot? Not sure why?



they had in camera noise reduction on. it is in the custom functions. your camera can do it too.


That explains it! Thanks.

The decision between the two is mostly price and personal preference as image quality is the same and features are nearly identical. The 20D is a great camera and a lot of times I use it rather then my XT (wife has a 20D), but for the photography I do most often, which involves a lot of travel by foot, the size/weight issue along with the price savings sold me.
 07/17/2006 03:01:45 PM · #14
Originally posted by LoudDog:


The decision between the two is mostly price and personal preference as image quality is the same and features are nearly identical. The 20D is a great camera and a lot of times I use it rather then my XT (wife has a 20D), but for the photography I do most often, which involves a lot of travel by foot, the size/weight issue along with the price savings sold me.


I would agree. personal taste is the biggest difference. you can get great shots froms both. but you are complaing about weight with some of YOUR lenses:) you have a couple of lenses that are heavier than the OP lens and camera regardless of which they choose:) no wonder you try to save some weight. i get tired carrying my 10d and the f4 version of the 70-200L. but then again i could climb a mountain on my best day.
 07/17/2006 03:23:22 PM · #15
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
...but you are complaing about weight with some of YOUR lenses:) you have a couple of lenses that are heavier than the OP lens and camera regardless of which they choose:)


:) Those don't hike, that's why I still have the Sigma 70-300.

Picking which lens to bring is always a big project! Compromise between weight and function... I need that one perfect do all lens!

07/17/2006 03:30:38 PM · #16
20D nothing else needs to be said
 07/17/2006 11:54:42 PM · #17
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I was night shooting with some friends. With my XT I'd take a 10 minute shutter shot and the camera was ready to take the next shot instantly. With the 20D they would have to wait 10 minutes for the camera to process after the shot? Not sure why?

Lowest prices at reputable sellers per epinions.com:
Newegg.com has the XT for $650
Buydig.com has the 20D for $989

If you won't need ISO 3200, 5fps and a flash synch plug in, I'd save $340 and get the XT unless the feel is that important to you. Although for $340 you could easily get a nice wireless flash synch...

Photo quality is the same, but the XT is smaller and lighter (which seems to be advantagous in just about every realm of electronics except photography where bigger seems to be better?).


Thanks for the quote on online pricing... I didn't think that the OP might want new :)... For me, I wouldn't mind buying a 20D used... Have seen them from 750-800 USD.

Regarding the Noise Reduction in camera, it's kinda worth it's weight in gold... try it if you can...

I thought I read somewhere that the 350 couldn't... I thought that was odd, but didn't check into it because it wasn't relevant to me.
 07/18/2006 09:41:04 AM · #18
Hey all! Thanks for the responses. You've certainly given me a lot to think about.

eschelar was sharing my train of thought-- if I chose the 20d, I was planning on buying it used rather than new. (With so many photographers switching to the 30d, there are some great deals out there.)

The size and weight might end up being the deciding factor for me. I went to a camera shop to hold the 20d yesterday evening and it seems really big and heavy. More impressive to look at, certainly, but after a long day of shooting (and with the tendonitis I have in my right wrist) the lighter weight of the XT might end up being very important.

I love how passionate everyone here is about their camera choices! (And I'm *really glad* I didn't ask the old Nikon-v-Canon question, or we would have been here all day!)
 07/18/2006 09:59:10 AM · #19
As well as looking at the size and weight look at the knobs and controls. To me the 20D has better form fitted knows and controls. The XT has a program knob on it that is bigger, bulkier and loots like it really wants to break off. The 20D is heavier becasue of it's construction of metal instead of the XT's plastic body. In the long run, unless money is a real issue, you will be far happier with the 20D, Yup same sensor but the fit and polish of the 20D camera is just better.

Now all ya XT users, don't slam me, agreed same basic photo quality, just a less expensive case to hold it.
 07/18/2006 12:37:06 PM · #20
Two suggestions on the wrist thing...

#1 - get a hand strap that fits your hand properly for non-tripod use. It will ease the amount of work required by your fingers. The type in mind is the one that goes from the tripod mount to the neck strap loop.

Good for either the 20D/30D or the 350XT with BG.

#2 support the camera... Honestly, I'm a 'still camera' nut lately, and almost never shoot one-handed. Even with my little plastic 50mm.
 07/18/2006 12:40:23 PM · #21
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:

Now all ya XT users, don't slam me, agreed same basic photo quality, just a less expensive case to hold it.


I wish I had the money for the 20D. Not that is something wrong with the 350D. You get used with. But still 20D gives a better feeling. IMO
 07/18/2006 12:50:30 PM · #22
If someone need the added features of the 20D over XT, than they should do that. But to say you'd want to spend and extra 300 dollars "cuz it feels better" doesn't seem like a very good reason. Metal casing or plastic, dropping your camera is never going to end well. Big knob? Have you ever actually held the XT in your hands? There's not a single "big" thing about it.

Keep in mind, I'm not at all "defending my camera". I don't even want this camera, but the camera I do want is $3000.00 - so the 20D/30D would also be a compromise for me. So if I'm going to have to compromise anyway, why pay extra for a camera that still falls short of what I really want?

Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
As well as looking at the size and weight look at the knobs and controls. To me the 20D has better form fitted knows and controls. The XT has a program knob on it that is bigger, bulkier and loots like it really wants to break off. The 20D is heavier becasue of it's construction of metal instead of the XT's plastic body. In the long run, unless money is a real issue, you will be far happier with the 20D, Yup same sensor but the fit and polish of the 20D camera is just better.

Now all ya XT users, don't slam me, agreed same basic photo quality, just a less expensive case to hold it.
07/18/2006 03:07:38 PM · #23
One advantage of the 20D is the control wheel on the back. It makes changing exposure compensation much easier and quicker.
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