PS 7.0 vs CS vs CS2 - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/07/2006 09:12:12 AM · #1

Ok, so I've been running PS 7.0 for a while now and everyone keeps recommending CS2.

So a friend of mine who took a University course had an extra copy (he had it already before the course and it came with the - rather expensive - course package).

I tried it today, but I'm finding it VERY sluggish... Just firing it up takes around twice as long as PS 7.0, but the real sluggishness shows up when using my stylus... (I use a Tablet PC)... I used 512MB RAM for over a year with PS 7.0 and even though I had the odd bit of trouble with the memory maxxing out when using sliders with the pen, it was NEVER sluggish. Since switching one of my 256MB sticks for a 1GB (and pushing the max memory usable by PS from 200MB to 850MB), this problem has all but disappeared..

I thought that it might be a good idea to give CS2 a whirl based on the VERY nice performance I've been getting with 7.0, but it appears that something is not quite right...

Even after firing CS2 up, there is a period of around 30 seconds where everything is slowed down...

I'm trying to figure out why, but I don't have time to muck about...

I set it up with the identical set of actions (not many, just stuff I made myself) and the NI plugin, but that didn't have any effect. It neither slowed nor sped up.

So, my final conclusion for this week is that my machine is simply too slow to handle CS2.

Which brings me to my question...

What are the primary differences, feature wise and performance wise, between 7.0, CS, and CS2.

The most interesting things to me were:

Adobe Bridge for RAW processing
Smart Sharpen
Single step resizing

I'm just not sure which of these functions is available in CS. And, as I haven't tried CS1, I have no idea how it performs...

I'm willing to give it another go later on, but I'm wayyy too busy this week...

Impressions anyone?

Photoshop 7.0 plus Canon DPP or RSE plus multi-step resize actions
Fast, but finnicky, requiring multiple programs and a much more organized workflow... fine by me so far...

Photoshop CS

I don't know much about it...

Photoshop CS2
Powerful and can keep everything in a single program with a single set of actions for batch, but is slow and resource hungry... memory requirement?

I will add that my experience may have been thrown off balance by the fact that I have only 1.25GB of HD space available right now... Freeing that up right now...

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/07/2006 09:33:23 AM · #2

As a PS7 to CS2 user with a slow machine I would recommend not worrying about CS. One of the major features of the CS2 upgrade is performance improvements. If CS2 is sluggish for you now then CS would be totally intolerable.

To get a good idea of feature enhancements from PS7 to CS2 you have to look in two places. You have to look at the places showing PS7 to CS enhancements and then look in the places that have CS to CS2 enhancements.

For me, I find that the improvements from PS7 to CS2 far outweigh the performance sluggishness. But that is something you will have to decide for yourself.

On the plus side, if you have enough disk space, you can chose to run either PS7 or CS2 to work on images. I am set up that way, but find I never go back to PS7 for editing. You might want to though.

Message edited by author 2006-07-07 09:33:54.

coronamv

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 IF EX DG HSM for Canon

07/07/2006 09:46:35 AM · #3

If you shoot raw CS2 has more support for raw. This was the deciding factor for myself for going to it. I have cs also and PS7.0 at work.

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 IF EX DG HSM for Canon

07/07/2006 02:21:21 PM · #4

Thanks for the input guys...

Steve, could you mention the specific areas where CS2 has been improved that makes you want to use it over PS 7?

I had both on my computer for almost a day...

The funny thing is, I don't really consider my computer to be all that slow...

It's a 1.6 GHz Dothan series Centrino with 1.25GB of RAM... It's not a blazing fast computer, but it should be able to handle some basic functions...

What really raises my eyebrow is the fact that the same basic functions that work seamlessly and quickly in PS7 experience significant lag in CS2.... I'm trying to understand why this is...

coronamv

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

07/07/2006 02:42:51 PM · #5

Not extremely slow but how many seconds are we talking about in lag time mins or seconds?

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

07/07/2006 03:14:52 PM · #6

What preferences do you have set in 7.0 and CS2? You may find that the defaults need to be changed.

Also, automatically opening the bridge at time of opening photoshop will cause the initial sluggishness.

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/07/2006 03:43:38 PM · #7

Originally posted by eschelar:

Steve, could you mention the specific areas where CS2 has been improved that makes you want to use it over PS 7?

I had both on my computer for almost a day...

You mentioned a couple already but in no particular order let me expand...

1-True 16-bit processing
CS2 allows you to edit images in 16-bit rather than just 8-bit mode. Seems like an obscure concept but results in far more vibrant images with less banding and digital effects. It is essential for everything more than web graphics output.

2-Smart Sharpen
I use it on every image. It is better than and replaces the three layer USM technique I used in PS7.

3-Resizing
CS2 has replaced my purchased Stair Interpolation Pro plugin from Fred Miranda that I used for resizing images. It gives the same results and is at least 10 times faster, maybe more. It makes resizing for large prints a breeze. CS2 has the new "Bicubic softer" and "Bicubic sharper" modes that are a lot better than plain old "bicubic"

4-Expanded use of the "Sample all Layers" checkbox
Sounds like a small thing but is incredibly useful. In PS7 you can clone from the entire edited image into a whole new layer if the checkbox is clicked. This is an incredible assistant with non-destructive editing. CS2 expands this checkbox into a lot of other tools.

5-Other features that you may or may not need
These are things that, if you need them, are alone worth the price of upgrade.
A-Highhlight/Shadow feature
B-10 times the power of perspective image processing
C-Adobe Bridge for image organization and mass updating with file browsing
D-Improved text processing
E-Integration with other Adobe products
F-Improved camera raw processing
G-Spot healing brush
H-Built in noise reduction (Neatimage but not quite as good)
I-HDR(High Dynamic Range) support for combining images with different exposure values
J-Photomerge for stitching multiple overlapped images (not as good as other products but much better than nothing)
K-Other features I've probably overlooked :)

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/08/2006 08:44:22 AM · #8

Coronmv: It takes like 20 seconds to start CS2 up the first time and around 12 seconds the second time. It takes around 14 seconds to start up PS 7.0 the first time and around 4-6 seconds the second time...

I am referring to starting it off a fresh boot vs starting it after closing it and restarting...

The lag that I mentioned is in responsiveness with my stylus... I don't have this problem with any other app that I use. When opening a single picture at 200% zoom, one or two layers only (normal mode) and doing stuff like dodge, burn and sponge tool, the cursor on the screen cannot keep up with the tip of the stylus... I feel like I'm using pocket artist on my PDA... (ie SLOW)

It will catch up and stay caught up for maybe 2 seconds out of 30... Either in one long drag or multiple sharp bursts...

Cpanioti: I am using the default settings for most stuff, but I'm using 75% of my RAM for PS (850MB). That's the only difference. I tried with and without the bridge program... You are right, the bridge program does start a fair bit of lag...

I notice that there are a couple of small 'cleanup' apps that make a showing in my task manager (and yes, I've double checked to make sure that I still have memory available)...

The last thing it started doing before I axed the program altogether was taking 15-20 seconds to load 5MB .JPG's when I was on the train. Completely unacceptable... I can load a 5-6MB .jpg on my PDA from a CF card in 3 seconds.

I will try again after I get everything backed up from my first 'job' and cleaned off... almost 18GB of images, raws, originals, batch edits and final edits... OY! I processed, cropped and edited 177 images mostly by hand today in 2.5 hours... While some images took a few minutes, most taking around 2 minutes, others were done and finished in under 5 seconds (crop, rotate, border, save), open to close... I ran out of time on my deadline... I don't think there is any way I could have accomplished that in CS2.... It probably would have cost me around 40 minutes... I delivered the DVD's 5 minutes before they closed for the day.

Steve.

Thank you for the breakdown of your reasons to use CS2... I am interested in 16 bit processing, although I think I might not have a real use for it for a while...

The resizing is a big one for me as well, although I've got a couple of freeware apps that I haven't played with yet that are supposed to be pretty good...

I had forgotten about the special tricks with adjustment layers in CS2. I had learned a bit about them from the Radiant Vista tutorials...

What is perspective image processing?

I played around with the spot healing brush and the smart sharpen features, but I really didn't know what I was doing...

Could you divulge some basic starting settings for the smart sharpen? I will probably do research on that next...

The HDR stuff looks neat too... I was going to try that in PS 7.0 with dual processing the RAW images...

Thanks again for the help. I really do appreciate it!

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/08/2006 01:34:01 PM · #9

Originally posted by eschelar:

What is perspective image processing?

Could you divulge some basic starting settings for the smart sharpen? I will probably do research on that next...

Perspective image processsing is the feature called "Vanishing Point" that is new with CS2. It is to sophisticated to explain here.

Russell Brown has a series of video tutorials that explains it very well. Russell has a quirky style but the guy knows his stuff:
//www.russellbrown.com/tips_tech.html

The three video tutorials from that page to watch are:
1-Ribbon of Perspective
2-Instant Exterior
3-Cloning in Perspective!

Smart Sharpen is another sophisticated tool as well.

Russell Brown has a video about it on the same page as above called "Smart Sharpen Revealed!"

Radiant Vista has a tutorial on it here:
//www.radiantvista.com/video_tutorials/page3/

Theirs is the tutorial titled, "A Photoshop Tutorial: Sharpening"

Regarding my own use of Smart Sharpen I do now in one extra layer what I used to do with two in PS7.

Sharpening is the last step in my workflow after flattening, croping and resizing the image. I duplicate the flattened BG layer and apply Smart Sharpen to the duplicated layer. I always use it with advanced checked to be able to adjust highlight and shadow sharpening separately. I sharpen to make the area of the image I want sharpest slightly oversharpened to allow for final visual fine tuning. I back off the opacity of that layer to get it just right. Then I might add a layer mask and mask out other areas of the image that may be oversharpened. Obvious this last part would not be legal in basic editing.

Message edited by author 2006-07-08 14:02:59.