please show me the error in my ways

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II

04/07/2003 09:50:30 AM · #1

the following is a list of my actual submissions, and the alternatives i had. any comments about why you might have chosen one of the alternatives and/or edited the original differently would be appreciated.

Symmetry: (some people suggested that i cut out the lamp from the original, but i didn't think it detracted too much from the photo (especially beyond its more obvious problem of the b&w being so soft). as you can see, i cut out a whole bunch of stuff)
submission
original
outtake 1
outtake 2

Indoor Macro: (i've always liked photos where the subject seemed to float on a black or white background, although here i clearly took it too far and overexposed the photo. i wonder how much better the original would have done)
submission
original

Bridges: (this one i'm most bitter about my score, i still don't understand how my submission could have gotten so many '1's and '2's. to me those scores goto photos that are out of focus, don't meet the challenge, etc - bad photos. my submission was in perfect focus and clearly met the challenge).
submission
original
outtake 1
outtake 2

Leading Lines:
submission
outtake 1
outtake 2 (should have gone back and re-taken this photo for the symmetry challenge)

Message edited by author 2003-04-07 10:42:53.

jjbeguin

Olympus 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 ED Zuiko Digital

04/07/2003 09:52:13 AM · #2

URL Permission problem....

mariomel

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/07/2003 09:52:55 AM · #3

Sorry, but we can't seems to see the originals or alternates. The links don't work as you posted them.

{too slow....}

Message edited by author 2003-04-07 09:53:25.

jab119

04/07/2003 10:15:45 AM · #4

the problem is the urls look like this //jjj.image

if you take the jjj. out it will work

James

04/07/2003 10:36:26 AM · #5

I don't see why any of your submissions should have received any 1's or 2's. They all seem to meet the challenge and look technically good to me. I also am disappointed with the scoring. In the past several challenges I have received quite a large number of 1's. I know my pictures have been technically very good but still I get all these 1's and 2's. Come on folks, a vote of 1 means that it is a really crummy photograph. The only time I give a 1 is if it obviously doesn't meet the challenge. If the photo is really overexposed or out of focus then I would give it a 2. I guess I am being way too generous with my voting.

It also doesn't seem to pay to be creative around here. I can't believe the amount of reflections in the water that made the top 10. I sincerely though my photo at least deserved to be in the top 50%. I would REALLY appreciate it if people would give some sort of explanation for their 1 votes. In fact, a vote of 1 should require a comment in my opinion.

Greg

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

04/07/2003 10:39:09 AM · #6

Originally posted by jab119:

the problem is the urls look like this //jjj.image
if you take the jjj. out it will work
James

i think i fixed it. try again. thanks.

jodiecoston

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

04/07/2003 10:48:38 AM · #7

I'll start by saying I LOVED your indoor macro shot. I gave it a 9. I loved the tonal qualities of the metal and the dof worked really well. One of my favorites for the week.

On your symmetry shot, I would say that my standards for really good black and white photography normally have a full tonal range from really "white" white to true black. You met the challenge and the composition wasn't bad, but the mid-tone grays that are through the entire photograph don't let the image "pop". Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule and differences of opinion, but I think a higher contrast shot would have done better.

I didn't enter or vote on either of the other two challenges, but on your leading lines shot I'd agree with some of the other commenters about the excess blue space as far as the composition goes, but other than that it's a very nice shot. Perhaps a bit more sunlight on the flag itself to really make it stand out? But I'd have probably given it a 6 or a 7.

The bridge shot... I'd blow it off that you didn't get a score that you would have liked. If you're happy with it, that's all that counts. You're right, the focus is spot-on, composition is very good... You'll just find a lot of people here don't like shots that resemble a negative or have a single color cast (other than sepia). As far as art, it's very cool. As far as photography - personally, I prefer the original.

Hope that helps?

Jodie

04/07/2003 01:14:25 PM · #8

Originally posted by dadas115:

I guess I am being way too generous with my voting.

It also doesn't seem to pay to be creative around here. I can't believe the amount of reflections in the water that made the top 10. I sincerely though my photo at least deserved to be in the top 50%. I would REALLY appreciate it if people would give some sort of explanation for their 1 votes. In fact, a vote of 1 should require a comment in my opinion.
Greg

You need to check your OWN average vote cast. It seems alot of complaining goes on about low scores, and you look at the average and they are below 5. If this were your first week voting, I could understand.
About the being creative, I agree...the challenge titles seem to be taken very literally by most voters, or something like...my picture is not like that so this must be wrong. ie-my symmetry cactus //www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=16711. I left an explanation with the pic. Look at most cactus-symmetrical, but since I took it at an off angle, not symmetrical when taken literally.
You give 1's for something that you think does not meet a challenge? Even if it is the best picture you have ever seen? I won't give them over a 5, a 1 is, to me, totally incomprehensible, no focus, unrecognizable junk.
The macro shot, Tom, I did really like the high key to it. I gave it a 7. But again, taken literally, my macro suffered the same because people said they couldn't tell it was a backpack and zipper.
The thing is, even though this can be aggravating, if you like it and it is compositionally strong, who cares what the score was. I think what I am learning here the most is, the things that the fickle public seem to like, and when it comes to the time that you want to use that knowledge...it is there. So, find a nice mountain lake, wait for the sun to rise/set, take the picture off a mirror with water droplets on it, chess pieces, green pastures, and an american flag in the foreground. (C:
Just a joke, but you do see recurring themes. Keep up the good work.

04/07/2003 01:20:49 PM · #9

Originally posted by dacrazyrn:

my macro suffered the same because people said they couldn't tell it was a backpack and zipper.

i loved your macro shot and gave it a 10. (i thought in general there were a lot of strong pictures in that challenge, better than average)

04/07/2003 01:41:12 PM · #10

dacrazyrn my average vote cast may only be in the 5's but that is because most of the pictures I see get a 5. For the most part they don't do much for me one way or the other. If a pic is technically good but just boring to me it will at least get a 5. If the picture very obviously doesn't meet the challenge I would give it a 1 even if it was the best picture I had ever seen. If you gave high marks for good pictures that had nothing to do with the challenge then why have a topic at all? Why not just have the challenge be post the best picture you can take this week. For me meeting the challenge is one of the most demanding aspects of this site and that and the time constraint are what make it fun for me. There have been so many times when I saw a new challenge topic and though, "wow, I have the perfect picture for that but I took it last week!" I usually vote giving mostly 5's and my one favorite picture of the week will get a 10. I try to give two or three 9's, two or 3 8's, a few 6's and usually end up giving about ten to twenty 3's and 4's. Once in a while I give a 1 for something that I just can't figure out how it met the challenge. I also will admit that I haven't left comments on those but I see that as a problem and plan to rectify that. I keep getting all these 1's and I can't understand why. They might very well be for good reason but I'll never know because no one told me why. It is usually the criticisms that are the most useful in the learning process. I would much rather have a comment of "this picture sucks because it is completely oversharpened" than "wow, great job."

Just how I see things.

Greg

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/07/2003 02:48:13 PM · #11

i generally vote by a combination of meeting the challenge, originality, and quality - so an amazing photo that IMHO doesn't meet the challenge i'll give a 4 or a 5 to. usually at the end of the week i have a pretty normal distribution curve around 5. i think macro was higher, while i think natural numbers was lower.

given that taking a great photo is difficult enough, i wish that less esoteric challenges were picked so we could focus on photography and less on figuring out the meaning of 'natural', 'symmetry' or . . . 'candy'

wewillexplore

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

04/07/2003 03:09:55 PM · #12

Originally posted by dadas115:

dacrazyrn my average vote cast may only be in the 5's but that is because most of the pictures I see get a 5.

If you gave high marks for good pictures that had nothing to do with the challenge then why have a topic at all? Why not just have the challenge be post the best picture you can take this week. For me meeting the challenge is one of the most demanding aspects of this site and that and the time constraint are what make it fun for me.

Two things:

Votes Cast: 3067
Avg Vote Cast: 4.2586
Votes Received: 3618
Avg Vote Received: 5.8170

That's your vote range. You're getting 1.6 pts per vote higher than you give. Your average isn't CLOSE to the 5's and your votes received is almost 6. So first - I'm not sure what you're complainin about low voters for.

Second - about the 'meet the challenge' requirement. I'm with you. I give 1s to anything that doesn't meet the challenge even if it's the best photo ever. I agree wholeheartedly that the WHOLE POINT of having a topic is staying on topic. I do try to see creative ways to view the topic, but I'm not averse to "1 - doesn't meet the challenge."

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/07/2003 03:35:32 PM · #13

wow, I didn't realize mine was so low. It isn't the low scores that I am complaining about it is the lack of explanations for 1's. I know I will be making a large effort to give the person who submitted the photograph some sort of explanation from now on when I cast a vote of 1. As I said before I haven't been doing that so far but having received so many 1's in recent challenges I see the error in my ways. When I see the results and there are 11 1's I start to think there really must be somethign wrong with this picture and I am just not seeing it. I would like to know what that thing is. I have no problem at all getting a low score if there is someting wrong. If I just wanted to hear people tell me how good my photography is then I will just show my pictures to my family. They say everything is good even if I know it is crap. I would actually like some more critical comments to go along with those 1's and 2's.

I guess that's enough rambling for now.

Greg

Fiver

Canon EOS-5D

04/07/2003 03:59:08 PM · #14

I still can't see you pictures:
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /u25/tomzinho/upload/15172188.symmetryorig.jpg on this server.

Anyways I liked your Photo, but I thought it was a little washed out. Not much tonal range (I think that's the word). Also the focus is soft. I also lowered your score a bit because of the number of building photos in this challenge (originallity). I gave it a 6.

Ooops I forgot to mention what photo I am talking about... Symmetry.

Message edited by author 2003-04-07 16:36:55.

04/07/2003 04:17:35 PM · #15

You also bring up the comments thing (you do say you are going to rectify it), but on your portfolio page it list how many of those you have given.
60 comments for 3067 votes...less than 2 percent.
I also am not that fond of the great job comments, even though they make ya feel good. The ones that suggest improvement are usually much better.
I guess giving something that you think does not meet a challenge a 1 would be much better if there were a mandatory comment for a 1 or 10. Then you could say does not meet challenge, but would give it a 6 otherwise.

04/07/2003 04:31:55 PM · #16

When I do leave a comment it is definately not a "good job" type comment. With a few exceptions I have put a lot of thought and time in the comments that I have written. I dont' feel bad one bit for the number of comments I have left. Dacrazyrn I am afraid I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

Greg

helgihelgi

Canon EOS-20D

04/07/2003 05:04:45 PM · #17

I think that getting great, constructive comments but an average score is better than getting bland comments and a good score.

I don't comment on nearly all the images I vote on, but when I write a comment I try to make it constructive/helpful.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/07/2003 05:20:54 PM · #18

the point is...do unto others, as you would have done to you.
you don't comment, someone else does not comment, and then others decide "why waste my time with comments, if I am not going to get them back."

Fiver

Canon EOS-5D

04/07/2003 05:37:26 PM · #19

Dacrazyrn,

Let me get this straight: you critisize me on my low voting average, but your "point is..." you think Commenting is more important?

Votes Cast: 1473
Comments:
Made: 267 <18.1%>
Helpful: 126 <8.5%>
Received: 79

Votes Cast: 210
Comments:
Made: 71 <33.8%>
Helpful: 39 <18.6%>
Received: 9

04/07/2003 05:55:30 PM · #20

Don't get your panties in a bunch
Did I direct the comment straight at you, Fiver? No, it is in general.
I also have not stressed commenting as more important, have I? Even though it is. This is a place to learn and grow in photography.
I only point out these things (scores and comments) to the ones who start off complaining that they get no comments and are getting low scores, and you check their profile to see that they are one of the offenders

04/07/2003 06:25:09 PM · #21

hey guys! relax! the purpose of this thread was for you to comment on my photo submissions vs. outtakes!!! ;-)

tomzinho (3624 votes cast, 465 comments:12.8%, 186 helpful: 40% - and damn proud of it :-)