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06/18/2006 02:33:19 AM · #1 |
I'm looking at upgrading to an SLR in the next few months. I'm probably looking at the Canon 350D (RebelXT). Mainly on price, a smaller and more lightweight body than many SLRs, and the sweet image smoothness. I know many people prefer bigger bodied SLRs, but I'm in the prosumer class, where I still want a convenient package to carry around, even when I might not use it, but I want good quality shots.
I love my pana FZ5 for convenience, but the image noise and imperfect focus is really bugging me. I am also looking forward to a nice portrait camera with the ability for narrow DOF.
Anyway, in looking at SLRs, I am noticing a few 'drawbacks', and would like to hear people's experiences in moving to SLRs. What did you like about the SLRs? What do you miss about the P&S. Particular concerns I have are...
1) SLRs are bigger and more trouble to carry around. I have a camera bag for my FZ5 anyway, but the SLR bag will have to be bigger, especially if I want to take several lenses everywhere I go.
2) SLRs do not have screen live preview. (Not considering the Olympus) I only found this out yesterday. Do people get used to looking through the viewfinder again, or is there a constant longing to go back to a P&S?
Particularly for WB, the live preview is very useful, to know before taking the shot whether I need to override it or not, and to preview the different options to see which works best on a scene. Maybe the auto WB on an SLR works much better than a P&S, but on my FZ5, non full sunshine often requires a quick manual WB override before taking the shot.
3) I'm used to a long zoom range. I borrowed a friends 300D, and found myself constantly switching between the 18-55 and the 70-200 every few shots, and getting annoyed at the gap between. I guess with the extra image quality, I can afford to shoot wider, and crop later, but it's nice to frame the shot when I'm taking it. Do people find this a problem?
I'd love to hear any comments...
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06/18/2006 03:34:09 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by surfdabbler:
2) SLRs do not have screen live preview. (Not considering the Olympus) I only found this out yesterday. Do people get used to looking through the viewfinder again, or is there a constant longing to go back to a P&S? |
What are you, insane? It's like the exact opposite. I could never get used to watching at that tiny and laggy screen. And most of the P&S VF's are rubbish so no help there. The optical viewfinder is a godsend. You'll understand when you use it for a while.
Weight is really a non-issue for me. My typical travel kit consists of a 16/2.8 (fish), Zeiss 35/2.4 and a Zeiss 135/3.5. These three lenses are the smallest ones I have and fit nicely in a small shoulder bag (35/2.4 on camera + other two)
You won't need to worry about WB that much. The preset ones work well enough and if you shoot RAW, you can always change it later. You'll want to read about RAW. Here's a link to an article on Luminous-Landscape.
//www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/u-raw-files.shtml
And about the 350D/XT. Consider buying a used 20D. You can have a used 20D with about 5,000 shots taken for peanuts. I got a bit lucky and bought mine for $650 (Well, 650€ but with 22% VAT, it comes back at 650)
The 20D is much better. Better build quality, better AF, better handling/controls, 5fps, more custom functions and ALOT better viewfinder.
Message edited by author 2006-06-18 03:35:00. |
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06/18/2006 03:46:04 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by surfdabbler:
Anyway, in looking at SLRs, I am noticing a few 'drawbacks', and would like to hear people's experiences in moving to SLRs. What did you like about the SLRs? What do you miss about the P&S. Particular concerns I have are...
1) SLRs are bigger and more trouble to carry around. I have a camera bag for my FZ5 anyway, but the SLR bag will have to be bigger, especially if I want to take several lenses everywhere I go.
2) SLRs do not have screen live preview. (Not considering the Olympus) I only found this out yesterday. Do people get used to looking through the viewfinder again, or is there a constant longing to go back to a P&S?
Particularly for WB, the live preview is very useful, to know before taking the shot whether I need to override it or not, and to preview the different options to see which works best on a scene. Maybe the auto WB on an SLR works much better than a P&S, but on my FZ5, non full sunshine often requires a quick manual WB override before taking the shot.
3) I'm used to a long zoom range. I borrowed a friends 300D, and found myself constantly switching between the 18-55 and the 70-200 every few shots, and getting annoyed at the gap between. I guess with the extra image quality, I can afford to shoot wider, and crop later, but it's nice to frame the shot when I'm taking it. Do people find this a problem?
I'd love to hear any comments... |
I never had a P&S but there is one in the household and I almost always use the viewer :), old habits die hard.
Buy a camera that feels good!!! A camera that you like handling, that fits into your hands.
Canon or Nikon, I can't say if one is better than the other, I only have had Nikons. They say Nikon glass is better, I wouldn't know. But my experience is that it is not a good idea to buy cheap glass. There are really good threads here on glass, read through them and google some too. Your pictures will never be better than the glass allows. No matter how good the camera is, if the glass is no good or only average, your shots will be average at the best. I have bought two good lenses in the past months and I can't tell you how much it has meant.
I have a 28-300, but it is blurry when I go past 250, even with a tripod, if you want long range, start at 70 or 80. 28 was/is way too low. My recent buy was a 24-85 (good advice from Kiwiness) and he is right (usually is) I love it.
You might want to consider dropping a kitlens and buy just the body or make a deal with the seller= a body and the lens you would really like to start out with.
It is nice to frame it when you shoot and you will get lots of shots you do not want to crop, and then you will get many that are fine even after serious cropping.
Hope you find the camera of your dreams, just remember to visit the camera stores and see how you get along with the different models, how they feel. If they feel awkward, there will be another model that feels better and is just as good.
Edit: spleling
Message edited by author 2006-06-18 03:48:50.
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06/18/2006 03:49:30 AM · #4 |
From your comments I would say the 350D is an ideal choice, very light and 8mp to boot.My first impression when changing to DSLR was the massive weight difference, which for me is sometimes a problem, I have weak wrists due to years working in the dying industry.Having said that I was going to swap my 10D in favour of the 350D but have put it on hold for now.
Viewfinder, I don't like or need live preview, the only use I give the screen is for histogram view.Get used to the optical viewfinder,helps with composition and light doesn't affect it.
WB is not a problem, shoot raw! it can be changed during conversion, one thing to avoid with dslr is auto everything, no point in buying one if you do that, you may as well stick to the point and shoot.
Just a few of my personal observations,
Paul. |
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06/18/2006 11:16:17 PM · #5 |
Thanks for the replies and advice.
I'm certainly not an auto everything person - I'm always adjusting WB, aperture, ev, shutter speed. Not ISO, because my camera is only just acceptable at ISO100, so I leave it there. I have a CPL and a 0.42x adapter and I use both very regularly. But, even when using full auto, I like to know what the settings are doing, and often use the half-click to validate the aperture and shutter, as well as the live preview to validate the WB and exposure settings.
With a DSLR, I can see myself having to take pre-shots just to check how it's going to come out, and see whether the exposure and WB settings need overriding.
I know what you are saying about an optical viewfinder though, particularly for action shots and sequences - just impossible with a laggy screen. And yes, I never use the video VF - completely useless. I hated the digital screens when I first used them, but I have got used to living with it's limitations, and there are some benefits which I think I will miss.
Once the photo gets out of the camera, I often do editing, crops, curves, dodge and burn layers, etc. (My wife gets in trouble when she prints photos that I haven't had a chance to edit yet.) But I don't want to have to do it for every shot. I certainly don't want to shoot RAW, and then be forced to convert every shot, just to do what the camera should do 90% of the time anyway. To me, shooting RAW is a great option for Pros who want to edit every shot anyway, but not something I want to use, except very occasionally when I want to get really serious about a tricky shot.
Do SLR users have problems with Auto WB? Aside from shooting RAW, do I just have to live with the occasional missed WB, and try to edit the JPG back (which never works as well as forcing the right setting in the camera). I'm pretty adept at PSP, but never had good results with trying to correct bad WB. (tried hue shifts, auto WB adjust, manual colour balancing, RGB levels, played around with curves) Maybe I should start a new thread on how to do this well.
Anyway, I've always dreamed of an SLR for the image quality and powerful controls that can't be matched by any P&S, but I'm finding that it's going to be a big tradeoff, and I'll lose many benefits of my P&S (great macro, huge zoom, the convenience of a small package, one lens does all, and quick video feedback of problems before the shot).
Maybe it's time for me to stop talking about it and try to borrow a DSLR for a while, to really get a good feel for it. That's what it really comes down to. Thanks for all your suggestions.
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06/18/2006 11:22:44 PM · #6 |
I just graduated from P&S to SLR and chose Pentax *ist DL which can't be beat price wise...
I do have many shots done already with it www.mixedphotos.com and I am very happy about it.
It is a larger camera than previous camera I own, but not huge in size.
So, I welcome you to SLR world, whenever you get into door, and good luck :) Start with something that you can play around without worrying about value of the machine :)
Message edited by author 2006-06-18 23:23:46. |
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06/18/2006 11:30:55 PM · #7 |
Did you also realize that with a DSLR, you have to buy Image Stabilization per lens on everything but the new Sony A100 and the old KM bodies??
BTW - You'll get over your LCD preview hangup soon enough I think. Panasonic is realeasing a camera with the live LCD preview also, if you want to wait for it. They will probably have all MegaOIS lenses.
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06/18/2006 11:34:37 PM · #8 |
| oh yeah - and no more taking videos on your dSLR |
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06/18/2006 11:38:08 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Did you also realize that with a DSLR, you have to buy Image Stabilization per lens on everything but the new Sony A100 and the old KM bodies??
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New Pentax k1000 too an the Samsung version that will probably follow :)
Message edited by author 2006-06-18 23:38:46.
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06/18/2006 11:43:54 PM · #10 |
The Sony A100 with kit lens and a Sigma 70-300 is a great starting place for many who have come to rely on Anti-shake... Very affordable too, for a new 10MP camera...
But it's not entirely necessary...
The 2nd hand 20D is a good suggestion too...
But if you like the smaller body, there's nothing at all wrong with going for the 350XT...
The lens kit I would probably recommend would include the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8, 50mm f/1.8, and Sigma 70-300...
Small-ish lens kit, but with very decent quality...
You won't have anti-shake (ok, well you can get the same kit for the Sony A100 and then you would have anti-shake), but you will have a decent lens kit with good ISO performance too..
Worth it? Sure!
Will you miss the live preview? Doubtful... Attempt one or two panning shots and you will see what people mean there... Or low light shots... Or manual focus shots.... or....
I kept my S2 IS because it has that feature AND it has a flip and twist screen... Very useful for self-portraits and other things like that... Not bad for awkward angle macro shots too... That's pretty much why I bought the camera and why I kept it...
Regarding WB, after you get used to things for a month or so, you will probably start dabbling with RAW anyhow... I just did, and I probably won't go back...
The availability of very large CF cards for very good prices helps this decision too...
Go slow though and pace yourself... things will probably get a bit worse before they get better, so plan to do a LOT of learning in the first little while you shoot with it...
For me, that has meant making mistakes, doing dumb things, posting threads about questions that made no sense, and generally making a bit of an ass of myself here and there...
But it IS helping... and I AM making progress :).
The first thing I would recommend is that you have a good clean workflow to prevent getting overwhelmed by large numbers of pictures...
I took more pictures in the first month owning a DSLR than I have so far with my S2 IS in total, after a year of ownership.
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06/18/2006 11:47:43 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by surfdabbler:
Do SLR users have problems with Auto WB? Aside from shooting RAW, do I just have to live with the occasional missed WB, and try to edit the JPG back (which never works as well as forcing the right setting in the camera). I'm pretty adept at PSP, but never had good results with trying to correct bad WB. (tried hue shifts, auto WB adjust, manual colour balancing, RGB levels, played around with curves) Maybe I should start a new thread on how to do this well. |
i haven't had any problems...
and, there is another way to edit the white balance of a jpeg. in photoshop, hit Ctrl-U for the saturation palette, and with the colorize box unchecked, choose the color that the picture has a tint of (eg, many lights give photos a yellowish tint, so you'd choose yellow.) Then, move the saturation slider down until you think it looks good
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