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06/17/2006 02:39:08 PM · #1 |
Dodging and Burning has always been a basic technique for almost as long as photography has been around.
Why then is it not part of the basic rules? I think this is wrong.
So therefor, my suggestion is to redo the basic rules to include dodging and burning.
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06/17/2006 02:42:40 PM · #2 |
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06/17/2006 02:42:43 PM · #3 |
Not defending, just explaining:
The essence of the basic rules has always been to limit post processing to effects applied to the entire image. Dodge and burn are spot editing techniques and thus outside the spirit of the basic editing ideal.
Defend mode on:
I like the distinction myself. My only desire would be to make exceptions to the basic rules for sensor dust and dead/hot pixels. |
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06/17/2006 02:45:17 PM · #4 |
This is like beating a dead horse. D&B is spot editting and that is now allowed in the basic rules. The way I see it is this: basic rules are like when people take their film to a convenience store and get it developed. The maching does basic things like levels, crop, saturation, etc. Thats that's that. Now, dodging and buring is NOT a basic procedure. Advanced rules is like taking a picture and developing it yourself, you have full control on the outcome, you can then dodge and burn if you want. Do you know what I mean?
June
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06/17/2006 03:13:59 PM · #5 |
As much as I'm for dodging and burning and cloning and insane layer masks in basic...
Chiqui's right...In my opinion, dodging and burning is an advanced technique in both digital and film. Heck I've taken many pictures with a 35mm...so has my mom, my sister, my friends, my grandparents...and I'd be willing to bet none of them know what dodging and burning is...so I say it's rather advanced.
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06/17/2006 03:22:22 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by Chiqui:
The maching does basic things like levels, crop, saturation, etc. |
Do they seriously auto-crop? That sucks. |
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06/17/2006 03:26:50 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
Originally posted by Chiqui:
The maching does basic things like levels, crop, saturation, etc. |
Do they seriously auto-crop? That sucks. |
Of course
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06/17/2006 05:37:13 PM · #8 |
Well beating that dead Horse....
we are not here to learn how to push a button on a machine to come up with an image.
we are here to learn, experience, an take basic photography.
and so, therefore, the most basic of basics in photography is dodge and burn.
cloneing, masks, sharpening and all the other neat stuff PS does is advanced.
reinventing the process of PP from hundreds of years of photography, and photographers seems a bit backwards.
Ok....beat this Horse....come on, you know you want to.
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06/17/2006 05:47:02 PM · #9 |
| Well I like the way things are now. Dodging and burning are not basic techniques. I have never been involved with film photography, but I read somewhere that for film dodging and burning does require a lot of experience and expertise on the part of the film developer. Am I right? |
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06/17/2006 05:53:38 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
Originally posted by Chiqui:
The maching does basic things like levels, crop, saturation, etc. |
Do they seriously auto-crop? That sucks. |
The ratios of 35mm film, your APS sensor, or anything else, do not readily translate to 8x10 or 4x6. Especially 8x10. So, yeah, they crop.
To brother horse, I think you're off track, and I agree that D&B is advanced.
I took high school photography and never even heard the terms. Of course, my teacher sucked. anyways.
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06/17/2006 05:56:51 PM · #11 |
| Dodging and burning is soooo much more difficult in the darkroom. I just finished my large format project for summer school and spent forever trying to get certain prints the way I wanted them. In photoshop you can be so precise, dodging and burning the smallest details that in the darkroom would require a slew of different tools and cutouts. Not to mention a ton of patience because you often can't even see the image while making the print exposure. Its really easy to mess up and can be extremely frustrating. Its definetly an advanced technique and should stay within those rules. However, I do agree with stragehost, we should definetly be able to clone out sensor dust. Its not very fair to get points docked off a picture over something that we really couldn't control(w/out cleaning our sensor every month) and could be easily removed. |
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06/17/2006 06:02:27 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
I took high school photography and never even heard the terms. Of course, my teacher sucked. anyways. |
Yes,....you did.
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06/17/2006 06:29:39 PM · #13 |
Not to be a digital snob or anything -- but what difference does it make how hard it was to do this or that in an old-school darkroom? This site (and the rules within it) is about digital photography.
All of the editing tools in the tools palette are much more difficult to use. The require a large degree of control over the digital brush that makes them much closer to painting than anything else. Their use is definitely not a basic skill.
As for cloning out dust bunnies... Cleaning your sensor is not hard and once a month would not be too much to ask. If you wear glasses, how often do you clean them? ...the windshield of your car? ... Your monitor? ...after kids have been around it?
David
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06/17/2006 06:32:14 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by David.C:
... If you wear glasses, how often do you clean them? ...the windshield of your car? ... Your monitor? ...after kids have been around it? |
Not nearly often enough on any of these, which is one reason I chose to not buy a dSLR : )
Message edited by author 2006-06-17 21:04:44. |
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06/17/2006 06:38:23 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Originally posted by wavelength:
I took high school photography and never even heard the terms. Of course, my teacher sucked. anyways. |
Yes,....you did. |
No, really, my teacher sucked horribly. She never even gave us any books or told us what thirds was. Seriously.
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06/17/2006 07:46:31 PM · #16 |
I think David C has got it right. The division of techniques between our Basic and Advanced rulesets does not correlate to what could or could not be done in a chemical darkroom, nor to what was easy or difficult to achieve in film. It's more about what a beginner at digital photography is comfortable with and needs to know about to get started. Color correction, contrast, cropping and resizing, etc., are things people learn about early on. D&B is something that even the most experienced photgraphers can get along without using. It is not a necessary tool.
As for cloneing out dust spots, even if it were something that all newbies knew how to do, it should still be kept out of Basic for two other, very good reasons - to encourage/teach people to take proper care of their equipment; and to save the SC from having to make many subjective decisions about how much is too much. The temptation to go beyond just a few bunnies and also clean up other imperfections would be great, and abuse might become rampant.
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