Another 'first paid photography gig' thread...

06/12/2006 11:12:14 AM · #1

Ok, so I realize that it's like a baby step, but I've got a big shoot for little money coming up.

I'm thinking of it as a test bed for learning more about the craft... I don't get a lot of opportunities and I have nobody else to take pictures of, so it's a good thing... I consider myself quite to be VERY green with this.

I will be taking pictures of a rather elaborate 'graduation' show for a local kindergarten... before you guffaw and snicker, these things are usually more elaborate than the entire set of proceedings of my sister's High School (gr. 12) graduation back in Canada a few years ago... and that was a pretty big deal... There will be two primary sections, one with certificates handed out, along with awards, and another section with performances of song and dance.

This is actually the smaller of two events (one of which takes place in the Penthouse conference room in the Grand Hotel, one of the top 5 swankiest hotels in Taiwan), and if I do well, I might get lucky enough to get called up next year for the big one...

Anyhow, my questions involve camera settings.... I want to hear some suggestions on low light shooting... Particularly on the 'exposure vs movement' equation.

I will be using my 30D plus 50mm f/1.8 for probably 90% of the shooting.

I have been asked not to use flash, although this is likely more specific to shooting the performances rather than the handing out of certificates as there is often a gaggle of parents at the front flashing away with their little pocket cams.

I may be able to borrow a Canon 380EX from a friend.

I am looking for a goal of 1/80 in shutter speed, and am willing to shoot up to around ISO 1000 or 1250. I will shoot in RAW. I hope to be able to stop down to around f/2.2 or f/2.0, but I am not afraid to shoot at f/1.8 in a pinch. Ideally, I would love to shoot around f/4.0 to 5.6, but I'm pretty sure that the lighting will NOT cut it.

The lighting will probably be stage lighting, fairly well handled, but with use of lots of colored spots.

I will probably shoot with AWB in RAW...

I will check my exposure with the Histogram.

Feel free to comment on whatever you like, but I have these specific questions...

#1 Would it be wise to shoot with the exposure in the middle of the histogram, or can I let it go a bit below low to prevent too much motion blur? I realize that I can push it a bit in RAW, but I'm not holding my breath on quality there.

#2 If I find that I need to get more light, where would be the best place to get it from? Shutter speed, Aperture or ISO? (based on the above statistics of a starting point of 1/80, f/2.2, ISO 1000)

#3 Regarding AWB, I realize that it's ok because I can readjust in RAW later, but because I expect to be shooting in the neighborhood of 500+ pictures, and I don't yet know the deadline for having them ready, I wonder if it might be wise to use tungsten or something (if I recall from another time I attended the show, the lighting is VERY orange) to minimize the corrections done later?

Post processing will be done with Canon Photo Professional, then PS 7, and I believe I will probably need to hit it with a bit of NI in PS.

#4 Would I be wise to use drive mode? I only have a single 4GB CF card and a 1GB backup. I will be bringing a HD which might take as much as 30 minutes to strip my 4GB card... I may get a faster enclosure though in the meantime which could pull the whole thing in 15-20 minutes.

#5 Would it be better to shoot handheld or tripod mount with a loose ballhead for stability?

Thanks for the opinions and suggestions!

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Canon

06/13/2006 12:02:49 PM · #2

First of two bumps.

Why two? Probably because of crayon's thread.... ;)

magnus

Canon EOS-30D

06/13/2006 01:25:28 PM · #3

I'm no expert, but I just did a theatre production shoot, so working with stage lighting is fresh in my mind.

#1 You should be able to take your subjects a bit below center of the histogram without suffering quality, but in the heat of the game you may not realize that some of the kids ended up too dark. I.e., if you aim for below center, you have no safety buffer to recover the occasional really underexposed shot.

#2 Looks like you are up against the limit on all three. In particular, if you are taking group shots, then I doubt you can go below f2.2 on the 50mm lens and get the whole group in focus. For individual kids, you can go all the way down to f1.8, just make double sure to focus on the eyes.

#3 You definitely want to get the best white balance in camera, since it affects the dynamic range of the raw image. If you know the lighting isn't going to change, then use custom white balance measured off a gray card before the show. If lights are very orange (as stage lights can be) then the card really has to be gray, its impossible to measure saturated colors on a white surface.

#4 If the kids are just standing around then single shot mode is probably fine. If they are very animated then drive bursts may help you catch that priceless expression.

#5 I'd go with handheld if your shutter speed doesn't go below 1/90. But then again I find tripods a huge pain. If you're used to yours then go with it and buy yourself slower shutter speeds whenever you can (when you are far away or your subject is really still)

kgeary

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM for Nikon

06/13/2006 10:04:50 PM · #4

Originally posted by eschelar:

#1 Would it be wise to shoot with the exposure in the middle of the histogram, or can I let it go a bit below low to prevent too much motion blur? I realize that I can push it a bit in RAW, but I'm not holding my breath on quality there.

Do you shoot in RAW often; be careful watching your CF cards fill up. You can push it if you want, you'll have almost two stops either way in RAW without losing anything.

Originally posted by eschelar:

#2 If I find that I need to get more light, where would be the best place to get it from? Shutter speed, Aperture or ISO? (based on the above statistics of a starting point of 1/80, f/2.2, ISO 1000)

Your shutter speed an aperture have to work together. You shouldn't adjust the aperture without adjusting the shutter speed, and you aren't going to be able to do one without the other (and make a difference) unless you are killing your image.

The first thing to do is lower your aperture which will raise your shutter speed. If you are at your maximum aperture then you need to start kicking up the ISO.

Originally posted by eschelar:

#3 Regarding AWB, I realize that it's ok because I can readjust in RAW later, but because I expect to be shooting in the neighborhood of 500+ pictures, and I don't yet know the deadline for having them ready, I wonder if it might be wise to use tungsten or something (if I recall from another time I attended the show, the lighting is VERY orange) to minimize the corrections done later?

RAW doesn't use the white balance setting anyway, it's RAW. You are going to use your converter to do the white balance so don't worry about it, put it on AWB.

You can use bridge to convert all your images at once anyway, so there is no factor of "corrections done later"

I'm more worried about your CF card capacity if you are looking to shoot 500 pictures.

Originally posted by eschelar:

Post processing will be done with Canon Photo Professional, then PS 7, and I believe I will probably need to hit it with a bit of NI in PS.

Why don't you just start out in PS? Does your canon program have the raw converter? You should get the upgrade to CS2...the new version of Bridge is worth it alone.

Originally posted by eschelar:

#4 Would I be wise to use drive mode? I only have a single 4GB CF card and a 1GB backup. I will be bringing a HD which might take as much as 30 minutes to strip my 4GB card... I may get a faster enclosure though in the meantime which could pull the whole thing in 15-20 minutes.

yes, bring a drive.

Originally posted by eschelar:

#5 Would it be better to shoot handheld or tripod mount with a loose ballhead for stability?

I would get a monopod.

Message edited by author 2006-06-13 22:07:07.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/13/2006 10:25:42 PM · #5

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Magnus. I will keep in mind 1/90 as a target... I still don't really know what the lighting will be like... Because they will be changing the lighting a LOT during the proceedings, I imagine that this will get VERY hairy. I will probably start in manual, but then end up in Av mode.

I was of the impression that white balance is still just an adjustment in-camera, whereas a RAW file is unadjusted. I just wasn't sure if perhaps there might be some benefit to pre-setting the white balance.

If I remember from last year's show, they used a lot of colored spot lights...

I am considering using the 5 fps burst mode and trying to shoot 3 pics each of the kids as they get their certificates (probably around 50-60 kids) and then try to get 2-3 of each of the rest of the kids in their performances (probably around 100 kids). Tracking who I have shot is going to be DIFFICULT as there are also quite a number of costume changes.

I will try to do some RAW shooting before the event, but as I mentioned, I am fairly new at this DSLR thing, so it's pretty new to me.

RAW files are 8.7MB each... that means that my 4GB card should be able to handle a little over 400 shots. I have a 1GB as backup. I don't know how long it will take to pull 4GB to another media.

So your recommendation is to get exposure first from aperture, then from ISO, and last from shutter speed... ok, I was kinda thinking that myself... I am pretty sure that if you adjust your shutter speed, then adjust the aperture the other way, this will not actually get you more light.

I will use the Canon software because I understand it has some pretty decent RAW conversion abilities. I would use CS2, but I think my sysem would have a tough time with it... I am considering increasing my RAM before the shoot, but I don't think it will be enough.

Also, where would I get the money to upgrade to CS2? It's not exactly cheap.

I will have a look at the Monopod suggestion. It's already been tagging my brain as a highly useful appliance... I tend to switch orientations a lot, so that might be a little clunky. Again, more money... I will probably end up shooting without one... Although I may bring my tripod and tie the legs together to mimic one... Not entirely sure yet.

thanks again all!

GentleSoul

Canon EOS-30D

06/13/2006 10:42:31 PM · #6

Kieran, I may be really off on making this suggestion (I hope if I am, someone will point out to me why!), but, to deal with the possibility of running out of space on your CF cards, how about starting with the 1GB card instead of the 4GB? Then when that one fills up, continue with your 4GB while your 1GB gets dumped to your HD. That way, by the time your 4GB card fills up, your 1GB should be ready again, since it should be a much quicker copy to the HD than your 4GB would be.

Does this make sense?

Liz

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

06/13/2006 10:48:15 PM · #7

thanks. It's a good idea.

Actually the thought had occured to me and it's likely that I will do this... I am a bit concerned because the card is a bit older and the speed is only 1/3 that of my bigger card... It's possible that I will be able to do test shots with it though...

muckpond

Nikon D200

06/13/2006 11:23:53 PM · #8

Originally posted by eschelar:

I am looking for a goal of 1/80 in shutter speed, and am willing to shoot up to around ISO 1000 or 1250. I will shoot in RAW. I hope to be able to stop down to around f/2.2 or f/2.0, but I am not afraid to shoot at f/1.8 in a pinch. Ideally, I would love to shoot around f/4.0 to 5.6, but I'm pretty sure that the lighting will NOT cut it.

fwiw, i have very little experience with an event like this. however, i DO shoot a good number of concerts (using a combination of flash and no flash). if it were up to me, i'd take the shallower DoF that 1.8 gives over the noise created in a higher ISO file. noise/grain is fun when shooting action (like bands), but i'd think you'd want your shots to be as clean as possible with this.

i dunno about the monopod (never used one), but i definitely would not use the tripod. those kids are going to move around way faster than your ballhead will.

in any event, it's a good opportunity. good luck!

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/13/2006 11:33:00 PM · #9

Thanks muck!

I am also thinking about possibly bringing a mini tripod for some blurred action shots with my borrowed kit lens at wide angle... Might not go there though...

GentleSoul

Canon EOS-30D

06/13/2006 11:35:25 PM · #10

Just had another thought, Kieran. Do you think you could "predict" when in the event your CF card will run out if you start with the 1GB (or the 4GB)? That might help you to determine which to start first with, too. You wouldn't want to run out when a lot is going on, especially considering how many shots you plan on getting of each kid.

I guess the most important thing is to not run out while they're getting their certificates, because you might miss a kid or two while you are changing cards... Maybe temporarily switch out to the empty card right before this segment of the event happens? Just something that popped into my head, and I'm sure you've thought about it already, but just in case...

BTW - congrats on getting this opportunity, and Good Luck!

Liz