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06/13/2006 02:42:49 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Originally posted by theSaj:
Brad...are you a mechanic? |
As a matter of fact yes.
I have been for over 25 years and own/operate a shop and have been on the ASE panel of experts
that writes/re-writes the National ASE Certification tests. |
I have a friend who is ASE certified and about 2 yrs ago became certified for BMW. He had the same rather low opinion regarding Ford. When pressed about it, he said GM is decent and can be really good on some models.
Ford, he felt were death traps. Well not quite, but he felt Ford tends to be the lowest build quality and when given the choice of safety calculates which will cost more lawsuit or recall. He likewise, pointed to the Ford Exploder as he called as an example. He expressed all car companies will do such. But Ford, seems to do a lot more pulling the wool over the problem type fixes in his opinion.
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06/13/2006 02:46:59 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Maintenance on the Toyota - just basics fluids and such every 30,000 miles, as is with any vehicle really. Maintenance tune-up on the V-8 is recommended around 120K, Timing belt in the 100-120K range, everything else is basic. The real value will be the dependability AND value at 100,000 miles. I can pretty much guarantee that 1) it will easily sell, even with 100K miles and 2) will retain much more of it's value than any of the vehicles you are looking at. |
Hey Brad, I know the new Tahoe's have moved to a chain instead of a timing belt. As I hated having to replace the timing belt on my last truck. Or rather paying for it.
The other concern I have, is this vehicle will be really for the purpose of towing. And I've heard of Toyotas having axle problems with a lot of heavy towing. With the big three having more experience with heavy duty axles. |
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06/13/2006 03:21:33 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
The other concern I have, is this vehicle will be really for the purpose of towing. And I've heard of Toyotas having axle problems with a lot of heavy towing. With the big three having more experience with heavy duty axles. |
No clue about the Tahoe - they have never had a timing belt as far I know, but late-model stuff never needs attention, so I wouldn't have looked into it yet, not saying something there has changed though.
About the Toyotas having axle problems because they aren't as well-versed in heavy-duty towing? Nonense. They have been building heavy-duty indutrial equipment for decades. Toyota got a bad rap in that dept because of the 4Runner rear axle bearings & seals. They were never designed as HD use vehicles, yet were used as such.
I've also done A LOT more differential rebuilds on GM than Toyota, by a factor of about 5:1 |
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06/13/2006 03:43:33 PM · #29 |
Well, it looks like the general opinion is for Toyota, if it makes any difference, I have a 2002 Tundra Limited Extended Cab 4x4 and I LOVE it. I bought it new and have never had any problems with it. Even after years of driving it, I still look forward to getting in it every day. My wife has a 2002 Mitsubishi Montero Sport SUV and we have a 1 year old son. Even though she has much more interior room, any time we go on long distance drives, we take my truck. It handles better, rides smoother, and is just overall better on the road than her Montero. The towing capacity is more than adequate for my needs and the front cab is very roomy. Unfortunately the Tundra Quad Cab wasn't released when I purchased my truck, but I will stick with Toyota for any future purchases. They are a little more expensive, but they hold their value and are very dependable. I plan on driving my Toyota until it falls apart (which I imagine will be many years from now).
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06/13/2006 04:42:04 PM · #30 |
If you want to sell the vehicle and get a new one every couple of years then buy whatever you like to sit in and drive.
From an engineering point of view, if you want long term reliability, then, no question, go with Toyota. They are known far and wide, and not just in automotive circles, for being well ahead of everyone else in engineering for reliability. Nissan would be a close second.
Yes, parts are more expensive for Japanese vehicles, but typically, repairs are much less frequently needed.
The Korean companies (Hyundai et al) are also gaining ground in reliability, but, in my mind, have not reached the level of reliability attained by the Japanese and also do not offer the kind of vehicles you are looking for.
My experiences with American made vehicles (and I've seen data to back this up) is that they still have quite a ways to go before they catcth the Japanese (or maybe even the Koreans) in terms of reliability.
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06/13/2006 04:53:29 PM · #31 |
I would go for the toyota. Its value will always be high. You could look for a year or two old ford or chevy, and save about half, pay in the 20-25k range.
I drive a vw golf to work, but I also own a 2 year old nissan pathfinder with 40k miles on it. It is a terrific truck. THe v6 is smooth and powerful and eats gas. The only reason I wouldn't recommend an armada is that they are a bit futuristic and boxy looking.
I would really laugh at the recommendation of an american truck before Nissan; I can give you name after name after name of people who have had dodges, chevy's and fords in the shop, for serious reasons, way too soon after buying. Its just not that way with the premier Japanese car makers, Honda, Toyota and Nissan.
Good luck. |
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06/13/2006 09:00:09 PM · #32 |
Another vote for Toyota. High quality, long life, good resale.
Of course, i went from an Isuzu Trooper (loved it, miss it) to a Chevy Suburban (loaded, like it, sucks gas and is too damn big), but i still like Toyotas. |
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06/13/2006 09:18:27 PM · #33 |
If towing is the main purpose with the weight you’re looking at, you need the Tahoe or the Suburban which I have. I tow a 5500lbs travel trailer with the rig packed full. The shorter Tahoe would handle the weight, the longer Suburban will have a more controlled ride. Toyota's are great, but don’t think they can handle the towing weight.
One other thingâ€Â¦..$100.00 to fill the tank. Ouch!!!!!
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06/13/2006 09:20:37 PM · #34 |
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06/13/2006 09:22:52 PM · #35 |
| I own 2 fords and love them never had a problem , my exployer has 125 thousand miles and runs great |
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06/13/2006 09:23:04 PM · #36 |
I'll respectfully disagree with BradP.
And yes, I have an associates degree in automotive technology, and am also ASE certified.
Build quality is not an issue with *just* Ford or just Chevy, or Toyota, they all have their issues no matter what anyone says.
That being said, yes Ford does have tranny problems, mainly in the Explorer and Ranger...not so much in the fullsizes, and not at all with the manual transmissions (the m50d is bulletproof).
Dodge has probably more problems with transmissions and build quality than any of the other companies when it comes to their trucks. Electrical problems are a nightmare with Dodge as well.
Chevy has their problems too (probably more than Dodge and Ford).
Anyone that thinks Toyotas still live up to their quality name is mistaken...they have their problems too.
Anyway...me, personally, I'd get the expedition, but that's just me...because I'm a Ford man...and always will be.
-----
Edit to add: just get whatever one feels the best...pay the extra 800 bucks for the 10 year, 100 thousand mile bumper to bumper warranty (which comes out to like 15 dollar a month) and forget about the rest...I know Ford's warranty comes with free towing for 100k miles and a rental car if your vehicle has to go in the shop.
Message edited by author 2006-06-13 21:26:17.
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06/13/2006 09:25:46 PM · #37 |
I have a seven year old Chevy Suburban. We purchased it to handle 8 people plus its cargo / towing capability. With the only drawback being it's gas guzzling tendencies, it handles a load and a crowd with ease.
For what it's worth, we are looking at replacing our other car with a Honda Pilot. |
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06/13/2006 09:28:07 PM · #38 |
I would actually go with the Nissan Armada. I am biased, so take my recommendation however you want. Nissan has the highest towing capacity in its class and is second in quality next to Toyota. Ford couldn't make a good product if they hired Toyota to design it for them...oh wait, they did...Escape Hybrid. GM just released their new Tahoe and Suburban within the last six months and I would never recommend you buy a brand new vehicle right after it is put into production.
I would also never recommend you buy from a rental car company, even if the cars are supposedly fixed. There are some mechanical pieces that will never work perfectly after being repaired or replaced. The best bet is to buy a vehicle brand new and straight from the factory.
Above all, the Nissan is a blast to drive and has a HUGE amount of second row leg room. Please do yourself a favor and at least test drive the Nissan. I also believe the Nissan will run on E85 if that means anything to you.
That is my $.02
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06/13/2006 09:29:50 PM · #39 |
oh and, you say the expedition has a sticker of 45, and real life is 45-55k...There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that you shouldn't be able to walk out of the dealership if the sticker is 45, having paid 38...none whatsoever...
My truck (2005 Ranger XLT 4.0 SOHC) had a sticker of 24,000 -- I paid under 17k for it brand new...and got a bedliner and a bottle of touch up paint thrown in for good measure.
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06/13/2006 09:39:31 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by deapee:
...and got a bedliner and a bottle of touch up paint thrown in for good measure. |
Touchup paint is nice, but I would have held out for a good bottle of scotch... maybe even a bottle of Drambuie to go with it. :D
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06/13/2006 09:50:18 PM · #41 |
Great another gas guzzler ... welcome to the real world!
Personally I've owned new the following trucks: Toyota 3/4 tom, F-150 gas v-8, Dodge 1500, Chevy Z-71 gas v-8 and a couple of Ford F-350 Crew Cabs, long bed, 4x4 Lairat Diesel engine. I also pull a 36 foot 5th wheelers now.
Toyota was dependable but too small (even the new ones are too small for heavy duty work but getting closer. Chevy seems to be the softest riding, more car like. Chevy Z-71 V8 got me about 14 mpg. The Dodge was the roughest driving, feels like a truck, but not near as comforatable.
The hands down not even close is the Ford F-350 4x4 V8 Diesel crew cab long bed monster. It will pull anything and gets much better fual mileage than any of the others with a gas engine by about 3 mpg. The diesel engine will last 3 times longer than gas also. Ride is firm but not soft.
They're all getting better, if you don't mind diesel I'd definately go that way. It takes about 75,000 miles to pay for the difference in gas mileage and purchase price. My 2002 has 180,000 miles and runs like new.
Before ya believe anyone ask each dealer to give you one for a day. Put 100 miles on it in different conditions and see what you think.
Look at the accidents around, I'de never buy another little car or truck, the safety is worth the cost and gas. |
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06/13/2006 09:52:31 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by deapee:
And yes, I have an associates degree in automotive technology, and am also ASE certified. |
*grins*
If you have taken the A1 (Engine Repair), A6 (Electrical/Electronics Systems, A7 (Heating & Air Conditioning), A8 (Engine Performance) or the L1 (Advanced Engine Performance Specialist) tests in the last 5 years, you probably have had test questions I have written or re-written, as I have done workshops on all those. I currently maintain A1 through A8 (Master Tech), L1 (Adv Eng Performance) and the new C1 (Service Consultant) certifications.
Regarding my opinions in this thread, they are based on real-world, daily servicing and repair of the vehicles, consumer input and general industry professionals consensus. I read and stay current in what is happening in the trenches, have written national trade magazine articles in addition to some Mitchell Repair Technical writings, repair procedures and tech tips.
The industry is not without faults in all manufacturing brands. It's the laws of acceptable losses in manufacturing, but when one sees over & over, certain brands that have a higher failure rate of it's major components and a general higher breakdown rate and lack of dependability, then I steer my customers away from them, just as I have done here. |
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06/13/2006 10:00:56 PM · #43 |
Last I heard, Nissan and Ford worked together...
Anyhow, I'm not certified, but I worked in a shop for a few years.
General concensus was that the american auto makers couldn't do much right when it came to small cars, but in the field of bigger stuff like trucks, they could hold their own...
Having said that, Toyota doesn't mess around with crap, and it would not at all surprise me that since their foray some years ago into the truck world, they have been doing a really good job.
If it were me, I'd look at the Toyota, then the Chevy too...
I've worked on Fords and they are known for their bizarre repair 'rituals'... Most people that I know that claim to be 'Ford people' are generally the lucky few that get cars that don't break down much... I had a problem with the electronics in my tempo and I needed to buy special tools just to remove the entire dashboard so I could get at this stupid set of switches... When I went to the Ford service center to purchase replacements, they laughed at me and told me that my car was garbage and should be thrown out... I took them at their word.
Oh and incidentally, most companies' manual transmissions are 'bulletproof' compared to their automatic trannies. Ford included. I am going to guess though that because theSaj already stated the specs with automatic transmissions, that he is leaning towards getting that. If you do go Ford with an Auto Tranny, I've heard that the recommendation is to make sure you use the parking brake as well as they sometimes pop out of gear under load. That may be info for older trucks though...
Therefore, I would second the recommendation to get what you like if you are going to do the 2 year lease thing, but if you will be buying for the long haul, go with quality.
I'm also a big fan of Diesels, although they will set you back a fair bit initially. Incidentally, all the head mechanics at the shop where I worked drove big diesel trucks.
Another option might be picking up a small team of Clydesdales? Spend less on gas...
Message edited by author 2006-06-13 22:05:07. |
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06/13/2006 10:08:24 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by AlphaTrooper:
I know that this may not have much to do with stuff talked about here.
Stay away from Fords. I own a 91 tempo, and with only 175,000 km on it, I have spent more on repairs on it in the past year and a half that I've owned it than my parent's have spent on their 2004 Toyota Carolla with 425,000 km which they have owned for almost the entire history of the car.
Stick with the Toyota if you can afford it. Definately work out better for you in the long run.
Edit:
For all you Americans
175,000 km = 108,740 mi
425,000 km = 264,080 mi |
Don't compare the small cars to the big trucks, there are no comparisons. That is why I don't and never again will buy any small car from any manufacturer. In the small car use, yup Toyota has a great reputation. In the BIG SUV or truck I think Ford is tops, had lots of trouble with rear axle in a new Chevy Z-71 4x4 truck, they couldn't or wouldn't fix it so went to Ford and had minor issues but overall with over 175,000 miles it's paid for it's self. I like the idea of being able to drive over the little cars, much safer for me ... not as safe for the little car. Safety is more importatnt than anything. If you can afford the $40k plus go with the biggest strongest you can get.
Oh ya ...Toyota just finished the Tundra plant in San Antonio texas and will start selling this fall. Even tho I live here .... Texas is not a Toyota town!!!! Ford rules and will always. Good thing there are trains to transport and to sell the Toyotas out of state ;)
Message edited by author 2006-06-13 22:10:11. |
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06/13/2006 10:17:32 PM · #45 |
Saj, I have an Expedition and have about 40k miles. It has been trouble free and has no trouble towing 4800 lbs of trailor and Corvette.
Average mpg is 14.2 city. One of its best features is it's tight turning radius. I also like the backup sensors in the bumper. Heck, I don't even have to look when backing up anymore. They start beeping in plenty of time to stop, if you want to, or just use the soft rubber bumpers and feel your way.
Good luck with your selection.
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06/13/2006 10:35:16 PM · #46 |
I had a 1999 Chevy suburban that I sold last summer. With regular routine maintenance we got about 250,000 miles on it. And someone else bought it to use!
We now have a Chevy Trailblazer. There is much I like about the Trailblazer. I needed to buy used - so I still think the deal I got was the way I should have gone for this purchase.
But . . . .
Drive the cars you are looking at with the size engine you plan to get. How do they accelerate uphill? How well do they handle curves? Does the engine struggle on major uphill runs? How fast can you gain passing speeds? (My Trailblazer does very well!)
What is their gas mileage? My only disappointment with my Trailblazer is gas mileage. It is a smaller car, with a smaller engine, four wheel drive just like my suburban - but gets the same gas mileage that the larger suburban got.
How easy is it to park and make U-turns? My suburban had a special design such that at slow speeds the front wheels allowed a tighter turning radius - I definitely enjoyed that feature. However, I am much happier in parking garages and tight parking lots in my Trailblazer. Much tighter turning radius and narrower car. But I learned how to find "suburban" spots - those ones that you can drive straight into. However, the newer parking lots are not designed for larger SUV's and wide pickup trucks.
Also - determine whether you need four wheel drive. We do. We regularly go on photo and other explorations up into the high country of Colorado and California. We also drive in the Colorado mountains in winter. We also find that four wheel drive makes our car more stable on wet Central Texas roads.
Also, what kind of cars does your regular mechanic service? Talk to him about which of the models you are looking at have been the most problem free - which ones does he see regularly with major problems.
Hope this info is helpful. |
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06/13/2006 10:51:53 PM · #47 |
| Just a data point on Fords. We have a Ford Ranger and a Ford Explorer. My vehicle is the Ranger. It's a '95 with close to 180,000 miles on it. No major work done, regular maintenance only. It's not a pretty vehicle. It's been in a few accidents and I've used it to haul rock on more than a couple occasions. Still runs strong and I expect it to continue. The Explorer is only a year old so I can't comment on its longevity but it's a pleasure to drive. A couple years ago, before we bought the Explorer, we went to rent one for a trip we were taking. They ran out of Explorers and gave us a 4x4 Eddie Bauer edition of the Expedition for the week. That was possibly the most pleasant vacation as far as a vehicle was concerned we've ever had. Super comfortable, AC like a meat packing plant, and real quiet inside. Just a pleasure all around. |
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06/13/2006 11:21:24 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Saj, I have an Expedition and have about 40k miles. It has been trouble free and has no trouble towing 4800 lbs of trailor and Corvette.
Average mpg is 14.2 city. One of its best features is it's tight turning radius. I also like the backup sensors in the bumper. Heck, I don't even have to look when backing up anymore. They start beeping in plenty of time to stop, if you want to, or just use the soft rubber bumpers and feel your way.
Good luck with your selection. |
Yeah, great policy for backing up... Any kids/animals nearby? They don't always beep. More of a soft crunching sound.
Living in a country where people routinely drive in directions that they are not looking, I can say that this is the cause of MORE than a few accidents... Not all are 'soft' either.
I hope that you do use common sense behind the wheel.
Message edited by author 2006-06-13 23:21:53. |
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06/13/2006 11:39:21 PM · #49 |
Get this:
...I'm pretty sure it's a hybrid. |
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06/13/2006 11:49:20 PM · #50 |
Don't overlook the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Pulls 2 horses awesomely! (V8) I liked mine so much I replaced it with a newer version of the same thing. My sister loved her Dodge Durango until gas prices started soaring.
I can also vouch for a Chevy Taohe & Chevy Suburban, both tow nicely, again The 1/2 ton Tahoe 2 & 3 horse trailers pulled well well never tried the 4 horse with it (vehicle to trailer weight ratio issues, our 4 horse is huge) The Suburban can pull our 4-horse safely since it is a 3/4 ton.
Mostly consider your weight ratios and if you vehicle could keep the trailer from dragging the it around if an issue arrives suddenly. 5,500 pounds should do just fine with a 1/2 ton body. Most people I know that pull often stick to Ford and Dodge. |
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