Big Truck/SUV Question - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/13/2006 01:15:32 PM · #1

SEEKING ADVICE:

Okay, it's time for me to get a new truck. My Isuzu's transmission is all but dead. I am looking solely at the "full size" class (7+ passenger + towing ability).

These are the currently available models. I've test driven three of them so far. The Toyota felt the most luxurious and had a real soft feel. The Ford felt very cheap and plasticy. The Chevy was surprisingly nice in quality & feel just below that of the the Toyota.

I've never owned a full-size truck vehicle class, so I am not quite sure at everything I should be looking for. I also know a lot of change has been occurring in this class.

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Chevy "Tahoe"
MSRP: $33,115 - $36,915 (real life: $40,000-$50,000)
15/21 mpg
Standard Engine 5.3L 320 hp V8
4-speed automatic
Horsepower 320 @ 5200 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 340 @ 4200 RPM
Standard Towing (lb.) 7200
Maximum Towing (lb.) 8200
Turning Radius: 39.0

Toyota "Sequoia"
MSRP: $32,820 - $45,310 (real life: $45k-$55k)
15/17 mpg
Standard Engine 4.7L 273 hp V8
5-speed automatic
Horsepower 273 @ 5400 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 314 @ 3400 RPM
Standard Towing (lb.) 6200
Maximum Towing (lb.) 6200
Turning Radius: 42.3

Ford "Expedition"
MSRP: $32,660 - $45,240 (real life: $40k-$50k)
14/17 mpg
Standard Engine 5.4L 300 hp V8
4-speed automatic
Horsepower 300 @ 5000 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 365 @ 3750 RPM
Standard Towing (lb.) 6000
Maximum Towing (lb.) 8650
Turning Radius: 36.8

Dodge "Durango"
MSRP: $28,550 - $37,510 (real life: ??? )
14/19 mpg
Standard Engine 5.7L 335 hp V8
5-speed automatic
Horsepower 335 @ 5200 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 370 @ 4200 RPM
Standard Towing (lb.) 5700
Maximum Towing (lb.) 8650
Turning Radius: 39.9

Nissan "Armada"
MSRP: $34,700 - $42,800 (real life: ??? )
13/18 mpg
Standard Engine 5.6L 305 hp V8
5-speed automatic
Horsepower 335 @ 5200 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 385 @ 3600 RPM
Standard Towing (lb.) 9000
Maximum Towing (lb.) 9000
Turning Radius: 40.8

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PS - Please no sermons regarding SUVs. Some people actually NEED them. Thank you!

ShutterPug

Canon EOS-6D

06/13/2006 01:19:32 PM · #2

Saj - have you looked into the Toyota Highlander? It's not a huge SUV but it gets 31mpg city

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

06/13/2006 01:20:14 PM · #3

How heavy of a load do you need to tow? I would look at that first, than gas mileage. My cousin has the Durango and loves it.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/13/2006 01:21:37 PM · #4

What are you doing with it and what are you towing?

06/13/2006 01:25:58 PM · #5

Towing a large trailer full of audio equipment. Often with a number of individuals in the cab. Currently load is probably around 3,000-4,000lbs. But will likely be upgrading the trailer and being closer to the 5,500lbs load zone.

4x4 drive is desired as well.

Originally posted by ShutterPug:

Saj - have you looked into the Toyota Highlander? It's not a huge SUV but it gets 31mpg city

I looked into the Highlander. It's not, IMHO, a real SUV. It's an off-road car. They're not build on a truck frame if I recall. I actually looked at the hybrid. And was disturbed to find out that it is a front-wheel drive vehicle and only the 65 hp electric to power the rear wheels. 65 lbs is no where near adequate for towing.

hdogg4u

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

06/13/2006 01:26:56 PM · #6

I have a Toyota Sequioa and I just love it. I can tell you this thought expect to pay for the heavy gas bill. Just the norm with all Full Size SUV's. I just recently bought a Honda Ruckus Scooter/Moped which I use locally in town and within a 15 mile radius at 120miles a gallon and what fun it can be.

I'll have to post some pics of me and my ruckus.

06/13/2006 01:31:24 PM · #7

The Highlander is basically a Camry under the skin. Not one for towing.
You won't go wrong with the Toyota or the Chevy, but steer clear of the Ford & Nissan.
Before you buy new, go hit Budget and see what is in their lot. They sell their rentals, have full history disclosure, maintain them 110% and already have the bugs worked out of them. Just make sure it is one of their rentals, not an auction purchase (which they do to put cars in their used car lot).

06/13/2006 01:36:15 PM · #8

Why not the Ford or Nissan?

I am already leaning toward the Toyota or the Chevy. But the Ford was a bit more economical on purchase price. Dodge Durango seems the most economical but, the old Durango appears to have been a nightmare from 1999-2002...with lots and lots of transmission failures.

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

06/13/2006 01:47:02 PM · #9

I have a 4-wheel drive double-cab Tundra. It's a very nice truck with lots of room for 4 adults, and it pulls my 21' boat easily. I think the base MSRP for an '06 is around $33K.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

06/13/2006 01:48:04 PM · #10

If you are considering the Ford, check out Hertz rental car sales. They only sell the top 5% of their rental fleet (the rest go to auction), they have one price (no negotiating), you get a full history on everything they had to do to it down to putting plugs in the tires, and they usually have Expeditions on hand (but you might have to get on a wait list). You get a 1 year old truck with 25-30K miles, but you pay $20,000 less, still get a little bit of the factory warranty, and can buy a really good warranty package from them relatively cheap. They don't take trade ins, so you know exactly what you are getting. I bought two expiditions from them and my buddy bought one and we had great experinces all around.

eqsite

Nikon D7100

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

06/13/2006 01:49:10 PM · #11

Originally posted by theSaj:

I've got a 2000 Durango with over 120,000 miles and no major problems. It does fine with towing. We tow a 2-horse trailer with it without any trouble. Gas mileage sucks, and it's a little loud, but otherwise I have no complaints.

dagaleaa

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2

Panasonic Lumix 20mm f1.7 ASPH

06/13/2006 01:52:39 PM · #12

What about the Honda Pilot? We have one, and it has a fantastic ride...third row seating if needed...rugged, and drives like a luxury car. We love our Honda Pilot.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

06/13/2006 01:54:01 PM · #13

I don't think you can go wrong with the Toyota. I believe that you'll find that the additional $$$$ on the purchase price will pay back in lower service costs over it's lifetime.
If you are going to put on a bunch of miles, you might do some calculations as to whether a diesel makes sense. You'll get significantly friendlier towing performance (LOTS of low-end grunt) and better overall fuel economy. Of course, the cost of entry is higher, and you'll need to do a financial analysis based on your situation. It probably will only make sense if you intend to run the thang for 200,000 miles or so.
You should *really* consider buying a newer used vehicle. With fuel prices where they are, market prices on used large trucks are bound to be depressed somewhat, making them a better bargain than they normally would be.

06/13/2006 01:55:53 PM · #14

Well, let me see if I can say this in a nice way.
Fords are a poor product. Period. They have a high transmission failure rate. (Explorers are industry-nicknamed Exploders because of it) They are stupidly designed from a service standpoint (2.8 hrs to change spark plugs), are cheap in fit & finish with a lot of platic components breaking. The engines are also not without fault and have numerous problems with their plastic intake manifolds, timing chains and head gaskets. Oh - to pull heads? The body is removed off the frame for access - yes - they are that un-serviceable.
Nissans - well, I have yet to see Nissan get their act together on electrical systems. They have some of the worst (behind Jaguar) designed electrical connections and over-enginered systems out there. I do service a lot of Nissans, and for the most part are OK products. They do get a bit quirky after a number of years, numerous reports of A/C system problems and oil leaks.

06/13/2006 02:00:29 PM · #15

Originally posted by dagaleaa:

What about the Honda Pilot? We have one, and it has a fantastic ride...third row seating if needed...rugged, and drives like a luxury car. We love our Honda Pilot.

Honda Pilots do not have the ability to do heavy towing. I am only looking at the full-size SUV class. I already have a mid-size SUV which I blew out the transmission on by towing.

06/13/2006 02:02:48 PM · #16

Originally posted by kirbic:

If you are going to put on a bunch of miles, you might do some calculations as to whether a diesel makes sense. You'll get significantly friendlier towing performance (LOTS of low-end grunt) and better overall fuel economy.

Surprisingly, the market isn't too depressed. So far my experience has been that a used vehicle with 30,000-60,000 miles is running only $5,000-$10,000 cheaper than a new one.

As for diesel, right now it doesn't look like many companies are offering diesel. I don't think I saw a diesel option for Toyota, Chevy, or the Dodge. And not sure if the Ford had one either.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

06/13/2006 02:05:24 PM · #17

Originally posted by BradP:

I do service a lot of Nissans, and for the most part are OK products.

Brad...are you a mechanic?

A fine tuner of complex instruments great (cars) and small (cameras)?

Yeah the Ford just felt, for lack of a better word "coarse". I think I am most interested in the Chevy and the Toyota.

NstiG8tr

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

06/13/2006 02:14:50 PM · #18

Pick what ya like. 5550lbs aint nothing.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

06/13/2006 02:18:21 PM · #19

Originally posted by theSaj:

Brad...are you a mechanic?

As a matter of fact yes.

I have been for over 25 years and own/operate a shop and have been on the ASE panel of experts
that writes/re-writes the National ASE Certification tests.

Message edited by author 2006-06-13 14:19:03.

Rebecca

Nikon D80

06/13/2006 02:23:08 PM · #20

As a banker who gets to deal with a couple really picky dealers who like to talk shop, I recommend going with the Toyota, with the Nissan being a close second. Nissans tend to depreciate very quickly, though, so be warned. The Toyota is more likely to hold its value.

colyla

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM II

06/13/2006 02:25:41 PM · #21

Originally posted by BradP:

Before you buy new, go hit Budget and see what is in their lot. They sell their rentals, have full history disclosure, maintain them 110% and already have the bugs worked out of them. Just make sure it is one of their rentals, not an auction purchase (which they do to put cars in their used car lot).

I was just thinking this. We bought our 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan last October? (approx) and got it for 15,000...under 30K miles and in perfect shape. We'll go there again when we have to replace my car.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

06/13/2006 02:27:32 PM · #22

BTW....

The #1 purpose is for towing. I will be essentially working from home come July/August. My wife will have her own vehicle. So the following will sum up my expected driving.

1) Towing trailer full of DJ gear within a 3 mile radius about a dozen times per year.
2) An annual trek half way across the country from NE to Illoinois w/trailer and 3-7 passengers. Tow weight approx. 4,000-6,000lbs
3) Driving to Mall*Wart down the road and to Arby's & Chic'Filet
4) Once every month or two take a 5 hour trip from PA to CT and back for work.
5) Heavy snows, have wife take 4x4 to school/work

That is my expected driving with said vehicle. So it's really mostly for towing.

Prof_Fate

06/13/2006 02:28:54 PM · #23

I am a Ford person first, dodge second. My brother in law runs teh GM assembly plant in Indiana that makes the full size pick ups and he and my father in law have driven GM full size SUVs exclusively for about 7 years now. I was a mechanic at a toyota dealership and fleet manager for a delivery service that ran toyotas and dodges, and most recently a service advisor at a nissan dealership.

These days overall, vehicles are very good. You get the occassional badly designed/engineered engine or tranny or something like that.

For feel, GM probably is the nicest. For reliability Toyota. If you are only going to keep it till the warranty runs out, it's not important. If you plan on keeping it till it dies, then go Ford or Chevy. The cost of toyota and nissan parts are more than US vehicles, and sometimes the availablity can be an issue on older vehicles. GM probably does a bit bettr than the ford on mileage - but who knows. My friend has a monster GM pickup (4 door 8' bed 4x4) and claims 10.5 mpg. My brother in law has a Yukon XL 2WD and claims 21 mpg.

also look at resale - if you plan to keep if 5 years, look at 2001 vehicles now - what's out there at what price?

LERtastic

Nikon D200

06/13/2006 02:38:36 PM · #24

I know that this may not have much to do with stuff talked about here.

Stay away from Fords. I own a 91 tempo, and with only 175,000 km on it, I have spent more on repairs on it in the past year and a half that I've owned it than my parent's have spent on their 2004 Toyota Carolla with 425,000 km which they have owned for almost the entire history of the car.

Stick with the Toyota if you can afford it. Definately work out better for you in the long run.

Edit:

For all you Americans

175,000 km = 108,740 mi
425,000 km = 264,080 mi

Message edited by author 2006-06-13 14:52:36.