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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Struggling with Adobe RGB in an SRGB environment
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Showing posts 1 - 11 of 11, (reverse)
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 05/29/2006 02:22:35 PM · #1
It is clearly desirable to shoot photos in the larger-gamut Adobe RGB system. But I am absolutely stumped how to get a good workflow going afterwards when everything but Photoshop runs in SRGB. I end up with dull, dark, and undesirable photos if I simply convert so I'm left guessing how to adjust the light/contrast/color to best force the resulting SRGB photo to look close to the original Adobe RGB file.

How do you get past this?
Is there really much benefit to shooting Adobe RGB if everything apart from printing is running in SRGB and the resulting conversions are a poor facsimile?
I use RawShooter Essentials to handle my NEF files and Photoshop to do any further processing.
 05/29/2006 02:33:01 PM · #2
I think you would be fine doing all your workflow in Adobe RGB and then changing to sRGB as a final step before you resize and save for web. If you do much work preparing for hard copy prints, this is arguably a good way to go. If most of your work is preparing stuff for the web, than you're safe working entirely in sRGB.
 05/29/2006 04:22:06 PM · #3
Since the D100, RSE and PS all support AdobeRGB I see no reason not to use the wider space -- just convert as a final step for those uses that require sRGB.

David
 05/29/2006 04:28:57 PM · #4
As I just learned yesterday (having struggled with a similar problem), if you turn on View-->Proof Setup-->Monitor RGB in Photoshop before you do your editing, you won't have to do any guessing to get your color & saturation to look good in the final sRGB file.
 05/29/2006 04:36:13 PM · #5
Originally posted by David.C:
Since the D100, RSE and PS all support AdobeRGB I see no reason not to use the wider space -- just convert as a final step for those uses that require sRGB.

David

like web viewing or printing ;-)
 05/29/2006 04:55:03 PM · #6
Originally posted by ShorterThanJesus:
It is clearly desirable to shoot photos in the larger-gamut Adobe RGB system. But I am absolutely stumped how to get a good workflow going afterwards when everything but Photoshop runs in SRGB. I end up with dull, dark, and undesirable photos if I simply convert so I'm left guessing how to adjust the light/contrast/color to best force the resulting SRGB photo to look close to the original Adobe RGB file.

How do you get past this?
Is there really much benefit to shooting Adobe RGB if everything apart from printing is running in SRGB and the resulting conversions are a poor facsimile?
I use RawShooter Essentials to handle my NEF files and Photoshop to do any further processing.

Most important... you are right to take pictures in the wider gamut "Adobe RGB (1998)" color space. You always want that color space for your post processing master file.

Further, you want to do all your post processing in "Adobe RGB (1998)" and in 16 bit if you can. The reason is simple, you will get more color and better color tonality. At issue are the output files generated from your post processing master file.

Now... to the issue of color loss. The only thing you need to remember is to convert your image to the color space it needs to be for output from your post processing master file BEFORE you save it for output.

For example, for web (and DPC) output you ALWAYS want to convert "Adobe RBG (1998)" to sRGB before saving your output file.
05/29/2006 05:18:44 PM · #7
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Now... to the issue of color loss. The only thing you need to remember is to convert your image to the color space it needs to be for output from your post processing master file BEFORE you save it for output.


That's what I thought, and that's what I've been doing all along. But I was still getting color and saturation shifts when submitting to DPC. But as I just discovered, it looks like this View-->Proof Setup-->Monitor RGB setting is the key. Maybe it defaults to being turned on and I somehow accidentally turned it off, so maybe others haven't had this same problem. But it seems to me that having it turned on is just as important as remembering to convert to sRGB before output.
 05/29/2006 08:18:24 PM · #8
Thank you very much, I now know how to work in Photoshop without wanting to break something.

Now for Rawshooter Essentials. Any suggestions there? Photoshop's "one at a time" mentality is really annoying, I like the workflow.
 05/29/2006 08:56:02 PM · #9
Originally posted by ShorterThanJesus:
Thank you very much, I now know how to work in Photoshop without wanting to break something.

Now for Rawshooter Essentials. Any suggestions there? Photoshop's "one at a time" mentality is really annoying, I like the workflow.

What is it your wanting to know about RSE?

If it is specifically AdobeRGB or sRGB, then the RGB working space is set on the 'Batch Convert' tab on the task panel. Just set it to AdobeRGB (if that is what you have decided to use) and 16-bit (again, if that is what you have decided to use) and your set to go.

Also, at the bottom of the Preferences dialog (click the black down arrow next to the green question mark in the upper-left corner) RSE notifies you what monitor profile it is using. This is the default monitor profile set in the display properties dialog for windows. To change it (if you wish to do so), right-click on the desk-top and choose Properties. Then in the Display Properties dialog, click the Settings tab, and then the Advanced button. On this dialog, click the Color Management tab and add the profile you wish to use.

If that was not the information you were looking for, let us know.

David
 05/29/2006 09:02:38 PM · #10
I don't know if anyone has thought of this, but if you shoot in RAW, setting the camera to Adobe RGB doesn't have any effect on the NEF file. The color space is selected in conversion.

Just thought I'd point that out.

Message edited by author 2006-05-29 21:03:18.
 05/29/2006 11:26:55 PM · #11
Originally posted by magnus:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Now... to the issue of color loss. The only thing you need to remember is to convert your image to the color space it needs to be for output from your post processing master file BEFORE you save it for output.


That's what I thought, and that's what I've been doing all along. But I was still getting color and saturation shifts when submitting to DPC. But as I just discovered, it looks like this View-->Proof Setup-->Monitor RGB setting is the key.

Ah, hah! You are likely correct. The purpose of 'proof setup' is to have PS display the image the way it will look on the selected OUTPUT device, usually that is a printer. For web graphics you normally would not want 'proof setup' selected at all. That is because web graphics are for monitor viewing already and PS defaults its display to your current monitor's ICC profile.

Regardless what color profile you create your web output with it will always be converted to sRGB when uploaded to a web site. It is when the color profiles are different that you have display issues after uploading.

When you chose "save for web" I believe you can choose to have no ICC profile saved with the image as a space saver. That means that if your monitor is not correctly calibrated when the image is saved that the 'real' sRGB color numbers display different. They will be shifted to their 'correct' values when the web graphic applies sRGB to the unprofiled image. That can result in color shifts. I'm probably not saying this clearly.

Anyway, to test to see if this is the problem instead of doing a "save for web" do a "Save as" and selected .jpeg for the output format and upload that to the web. That method retains an ICC profile embedded in upload file that is used when uploaded for the web site's sRGB conversion. If the color is correct when displayed on the web then that was the problem.
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