What more lens needed? - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX Aspherical DG DF RF for Canon

05/14/2006 04:30:36 AM · #26

Originally posted by yido:

I think you fell into a common thing among all shooters. You start buying cheap glasses, then expensive glasses and have a hugh overlap and wonder if you need all of them. Then lens sharpness obscession starts, followed by control of Depth of focus. Lastly, with luck the migration from depth of focus to depth of feeling occurs where conveying feeling or emotion is the main and the most important aspect of your photo, not just technical stuff like lens sharpness.

Anyway, if you are not into any specific photography, I'd recommend a few zooms or a prime or so. Generally primes are not as versatile, especially long primes. If the environment and shooting distance is fixed, like in a studio, then primes can be very good. But if you like to go out and shoot outdoors in uncontrolled situations, a fast zoom allows for more compositional flexibility.

Now lets look at your list:
Canon EOS 350D: Get a Opteka Grip, it's cheap, helps support long lenses and holds an extra battery, doubling the no. of shots you can take.
Nikon CoolPix 8800: Unless you want a second digicam, sell it and just focus on mastering the dslr.

Lenses
1. Canon EF-S 18-55mm: Get rid of this, unless you really like/use this
Lens is poorly built, slow, soft wide open and at 55mm, and has too much CA
2. Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II get rid of this unless you really like/use this. B/C this has only 5 blades, it's bokeh is of poor quality.
3. Canon EF 28-90mm f/4-5.6 II (you have the 24-70L, get rid of this)
4. Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM: unless you really like/use it, get rid of it. I personally don't like the excessive CA on this lens.
5. Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro: keep it if you use it.
6. Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L THIS IS A KEEPER, keep it unless you hate it for some reason.
7. Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 APO DG Macro: Sell unless you use/like it
8. Sigma 12-24mm: if you are happy with the optics, keep it otherwise consider another ultrawide.
9. Sigma 17-35mm f/2.8-4 EX: Too much overlap with the 12-24 and 24-70.
10. Sigma 8mm EX DG Circular Fisheye: this is generally not a general use lens. However, it can be a very fun lens. Do you use it? if so keep it.
Extension Tube EF 12II (If you have a macro lens, you really don't need this much from your description)
Extension Tube EF 25II
Extender EF 2x II (extenders by Canon only work on the L lenses, plus it's not recommended for consumer grade lenses, especially 2X TC's)

Flash Speedlite 580EX (keeper)

Here would be my ideal list for general photography.
1. Canon 10-22/Tokina 12-24/Sig 10-20
All these are great for landscape/cityscape/crowd shots. The Sigma 12-24 is a bit softer than these till about f8. My personal pic is either the Canon or the Sig.
2. Keep the 24-70L with a Canon 10-22 and 24-70, the 2mm gap is nothing serious. Now you really don't need the Sigma 17-35 as that range is covered. The 24-70 can be used for walking around (general use) and for close range portraits.
3. Canon 70-200f2.8 or Sigma 70-200 f2.8:
These are big lenses but they are fast and sharp. You can use these for longer range portraits, performance type shots in the dark, sports (although a 2x TC maybe good here).
4. Lastly, keep a specialty lens or two. If you like the fish and/or macro, keep it. If you like really long distance shooting, consider a super tele photo prime or a zoom. Also, I see you did some night time shooting. Don't forget to buy a really sturdy tripod. You don't want a tripod that shakes or worse yet will tip over with all your stuff.

Good luck paring down your equip. list.

I am very happy with your reply and i respect you very much.

I did mistakes because i was a beginner and i didn't know what should i buy, and i went for cheap first for try thats all.
I don't know what you mean by opteka grip, i got battery grip for 350D if that what you mean.
Nikon coolpix 8800 is nice great camera, i use it for work as i don't like to use my 350D for my work, and i can give it to my wife later.
Primes are great for sure, and zooms are superb for sure. about primes i don't want to buy primes which is larger than 300mm this time as there are no much things to take with prime above 300mm. about zooms i will buy 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM, i think it is enough, but i can add 100-400mm if it worth beside 70-200, what do you think?

About lenses, most sigma lenses i don't like as i told you i did a mistake and i didn't know the good one and i took 12-24, 17-35, 8 as they are wide angle for travelling, i couldn't buy something expensive that time like 16-35 or14mm of canon, and 10-22 i didn't know about it before and it was not available, i will buy it soon but i hope i can use it with 1Ds later, hehe. only Sigma 70-300 and 8 i will keep it, and i will keep all lenses as i don't sell anything i buy cause i spent money on them and not a good decision to sell everything i bought but as i said, if i can find some who can buy them in my area only i will sell and i don't want to try sell it online as i am not into online buy and sell yet.
about canon lense i agree with some of your recommendations, 28-90, 18-55 are not so good so i can get rid of them. about 50 and 85 i will keep them as they are very nice and i can use them on 350D and 1Ds later with great results. about 100mm and 24-70 they are superb great lenses, never get rid of them.
about extension tubes they are very useful in macro and i use them both or seperate mostly with 100mm or 24-70 sometimes. extender, i think i agree that they are not that much recommended but i can use them with L zoom telephotos L series later but not that much, but i think 1.4X much more used from people than 2X and i will see about it and decide later.
What do you think of this list of lense from high priority to low:

EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM
EF 16-35mm f2.8L USM
EF 17-40mm f4L USM
EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM
EF 300mm f2.8L IS USM
EF 400mm f2.8L IS USM

EF-s 10-22 is in wishlist, but for 1Ds it will be ignored for 350D only.

I am waiting you reply and others ofcourse

yido

Canon EOS-5D

05/14/2006 02:17:29 PM · #27

I have a 70-200f2.8L without IS and really like using the lens. I don't use it as much as my Sigma 50-500 (it's more versatile for walking around and candid stuff) but when I do, I'm consistenly impressed by the optics and the quality feel of the L lens.

The extra reach with the 100-400L will be good for wildlife/zoos/birds/airshows/candid portraits etc. This is why I have a Sigma 50-500 (Bigma) as well. In terms of optics, the Sigma and the 100-400 are similar with Sigma costing less with more range and L with sealing and IS. Optics are very good to good, not excellent like the 70-200. If you need a supertele zoom either one is good. Another option is if you rarely use the long zooms to use the 2x TC on the 70-200 f2.8. A 1.4x TC is optically better and turns your f2.8 into a usable f4 vs f5.6 from a 2x TC, but TC's usually require an extra stop to get rid of some CA and incrase sharpness. So for these reasons, I personally don't care for them and just use a longer lens. To me, a 1.4xTC on a 200mm focal length, turning it into a 280mm is not that much for me, so I never considered it.

If you are not interested in online selling, I can understand. I'm not into collecting lenses I don't use, so I usually sell it via forums to folks living nearby, so they can drop by, check out the lens and buy it right there. Maybe a camera store nearby can buy them off of you.

As for your wish list,
EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS: Nice lens, can't really fault it.
I think the non IS is sharper wide open per photozone but I don't think this is a big deal.
EF 16-35mm f2.8L: Nice and wide, especially if you plan on 1Ds.
EF 17-40mm f4L USM: Would not get this if you plan on 16-35. I like faster zooms like f2.8 b/c of control of DOF. It is a good lens though, especially considering the price difference between it and the 16-35. I have a Tamron 17-35 f2.8-4 b/c of the price and the wider aperature at the 17mm end. It's not built as good as the L's but I'm not a working pro and treat my gear with care.
EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L, nice also consider a Bigma
EF 300mm f2.8L IS, nice lens but a bit redundant if you get a 100-400, unless you intend on using this lens for a specific purpose. I think a photog interviewed at popular photography used this for close up shots of performers singing. If you get the 70-200IS, then you can use that and crop a little.
EF 400mm f2.8L IS: once again nice lens but long primes are not very versatile. If you have a specific need for this range and speed, yes, if not no. As you mentioned, you are into general photography. These long range fast primes with IS are usually for long range work in low light and I generally consider these more specialized lenses. A 100-400L would be a more versatile choice in my view.

As for the 10-22, if you plan on a full frame lens, I would not get it. I had the Tokina 12-24 on a 300D and when I got the 1D Mark II N, I sold it b/c I want lenses that I can use on all my cameras. If you plan on getting a full frame camera, and seeing as you aren't into buying and selling lenses, I'd stay away from the 10-22 as it cannot be used on Full frame cameras. The 10-22 was made to mimic on a cropped body the range of the 16-35 on a film camera. The big diff. is that the L is fast at f2.8 where as the 10-22 is a 3.5-4.5 variable aperature. Also instead of the 1D series, consider the 5D as well. Unless you are a working pro that routinely print really large prints, I'm not sure the 1DsMark II makes much economical sense to me. I also don't care for the hugh files it makes in RAW as it requires large memory and will slow down most computers b/c it's files are often 2 times as big as other camera's RAW files. If you have a specific question, just PM me insted.
Good luck.

Message edited by author 2006-05-14 14:24:34.

05/14/2006 04:18:17 PM · #28

yido, some people told me that 70-200mm F4 is sharper than 70-200 IS.
I was thinking alot of Bigma and was going to buy it but i waited, i like that focal length range and the super zoom, but i read somewhere that Sigma lenses mostly are not that high quality comparing with canon lenses, so i will keep in canon side lenses.
about selling and buying i think i will decide later in a good time.
about 16-35 and 17-40, i am more going with 16-35, but i saw alot prefer 17-40 and rate it with high scores, and about 10-22 it is very fantastic lens but not compatible with full frame, but i can buy it and keep it for 350D, i am not throwing my XT anywhere but i will think of 16-35 or 17-40 more than 10-22 and just think of 10-22 later if i need it alot with my XT if i will use it alot.
Primes which is 200 - 600mm are powerful for sure, but as you said they are mostly for specific usage like wildlife/animals, and i can't find any wildlife here in my country, so it is not an issue good decision to buy it with very few usage, keep its moey for another more useful verstile lense.
I like 100-400 as well and it is superb, but i have to check 70-200 with 1.4X or 2X TC if it will be great then i don't need 100-400 even f stop will vary, because i will try to use 70-200 with TC in daylight mostly, and i don't shoot birds or some animals at night so then i need f-stop, i will think of it in all cases and adding to my wishlist.
I want 1Ds because i am not a photographer but i love photography, i am a civil engineer, so i can print with A0 size sometimes if i want, so what do you think people? and i want more addition feature of 1Ds over 5D, money is not an issue, it is coming and going.

So with last decision, i will choose 1Ds but i will buy later, now i will buy 70-200 f2.8 IS first, then i will discuss with people about 16-35 and 17-40 to choose one of them for wide views to be using with my XT and FF later, 100-400 when needed. primes <300mm in the far future or when get millions of dollars in a fortune. thank you very much for your reply and i hope people discuss here to see what really i need of lenses

Message edited by author 2006-05-14 16:20:15.

05/14/2006 04:25:20 PM · #29

But if you're not a photographer, why are you collecting all these lenses?

Edit: I'm just saying this because mostly when people ask for advise about lenses, they are interested in a specific area of photography. (e.g. sports, wildlife, macro, architecture etc.) - So the first thing you should do is identify *why* you need to buy a certain lens, before spending anymore money.

Message edited by author 2006-05-14 16:31:21.

05/14/2006 04:32:39 PM · #30

Originally posted by jhonan:

But if you're not a photographer, why are you collecting all these lenses?

because i am crazy
i took a courses in photography before in my area, the teacher told us that Sigma lenses are so great, so i took by mistake 3 wide angle lenses before i travel then i found that it is a big mistake, but for honest, i got nice beautiful photos from them, so why i get rid of them, i can use them on 1Ds and i think it will be much better than on XT.
i got 18-55 as a kit, 28-90 so cheap so i took it to try [Crappy, i hate it alot]. and then i read alot about cameras and lenses so then i decide late to get perfect lenses from Canon wether L series or not even expensive, thats all
any questions?

05/14/2006 04:35:16 PM · #31

Originally posted by UAE_Guy:

Originally posted by jhonan:
But if you're not a photographer, why are you collecting all these lenses?

because i am crazy
i took a courses in photography before in my area, the teacher told us that Sigma lenses are so great, so i took by mistake 3 wide angle lenses before i travel then i found that it is a big mistake, but for honest, i got nice beautiful photos from them, so why i get rid of them, i can use them on 1Ds and i think it will be much better than on XT.
i got 18-55 as a kit, 28-90 so cheap so i took it to try [Crappy, i hate it alot]. and then i read alot about cameras and lenses so then i decide late to get perfect lenses from Canon wether L series or not even expensive, thats all
any questions?

for addition, i was into landscape before, as i will travel so i need to shoot nature mostly, and i didn't have time to see and check which i need so i took 3 instead of 1, now i am into it and portrait and macro and still life mostly, wildlife will come next and last sports, so i walk slowly in all types of photography.

05/14/2006 04:37:51 PM · #32

At least with 3 Sigma wide angle lenses i got nice shoot in my travel, so i thank them alot, why i get rid of it as long i can produce good pics with them? anyway, now it is not a time to discuss why i bought them, it is happened and finished.

so my previous lenses are in the past, present is now, ignore my old lenses, what new lenses i should look at for my future? let say i am not going to take long views and i am not into sports that much [not hate it].

Message edited by author 2006-05-14 16:40:20.

05/14/2006 04:45:50 PM · #33

Talking on lenses. Sitting in a bird hide today, in walked this guy with a whole range of serious red pin striped L Canon lenses. Felt a bit outgunned today :(

Message edited by author 2006-05-14 16:46:24.

05/14/2006 05:02:14 PM · #34

Originally posted by Kaizer:

Talking on lenses. Sitting in a bird hide today, in walked this guy with a whole range of serious red pin striped L Canon lenses. Felt a bit outgunned today :(

I saw some pics of photographer holding 1Ds + 70-200mm on one hand and 5D+300mm on another hand that with third camera in the bag with many lenses, so is he a diffirent to have all these tools?

05/14/2006 05:05:32 PM · #35

Originally posted by UAE_Guy:

I saw some pics of photographer holding 1Ds + 70-200mm on one hand and 5D+300mm on another hand that with third camera in the bag with many lenses, so is he a diffirent to have all these tools?

Are you sure that wasn't a self-portrait? ;-)

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/14/2006 05:11:22 PM · #36

Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by UAE_Guy:
I saw some pics of photographer holding 1Ds + 70-200mm on one hand and 5D+300mm on another hand that with third camera in the bag with many lenses, so is he a diffirent to have all these tools?

Are you sure that wasn't a self-portrait? ;-)

This guy (in the hide) had a 1D.... A wife too, and she was also brandishing a pretty cool photographic machine too. Hey, maybe it's the same guy doing some travelling.

BTW Jhonan.... Like the yellow finger :)

Ecce_Signum

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

05/14/2006 05:12:19 PM · #37

Originally posted by jhonan:

I couldn't find it but there is (at least) one thread about this guy here already ...

The Christmas Tree Guy

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/14/2006 05:18:35 PM · #38

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

I couldn't find it but there is (at least) one thread about this guy here already ...

The Christmas Tree Guy

Hehe.... Similar equipment. But I'm sure he was taller :)

Ecce_Signum

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

05/14/2006 05:21:17 PM · #39

Originally posted by Kaizer:

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

I couldn't find it but there is (at least) one thread about this guy here already ...

The Christmas Tree Guy

Hehe.... Similar equipment. But I'm sure he was taller :)

Not a seasoned professional then, you do tend to get shorter the longer you shoot like this lol

05/14/2006 05:24:58 PM · #40

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by UAE_Guy:
I saw some pics of photographer holding 1Ds + 70-200mm on one hand and 5D+300mm on another hand that with third camera in the bag with many lenses, so is he a diffirent to have all these tools?

Are you sure that wasn't a self-portrait? ;-)

I couldn't find it but there is (at least) one thread about this guy here already ...

The Christmas Tree Guy

I think one 1Ds II much cheaper than all these tools surrounding him.
i was thinking that he will fall down, unless he is on a tripod.

05/14/2006 05:28:50 PM · #41

Originally posted by UAE_Guy:

I think one 1Ds II much cheaper than all these tools surrounding him.
i was thinking that he will fall down, unless he is on a tripod.

And the tripod would fit where exactly? No wait... best not answer that.
Well thats me for the evening. Off to bed.

Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX Aspherical DG DF RF for Canon

05/14/2006 05:58:48 PM · #42

Originally posted by Kaizer:

Originally posted by UAE_Guy:

I think one 1Ds II much cheaper than all these tools surrounding him.
i was thinking that he will fall down, unless he is on a tripod.

And the tripod would fit where exactly? No wait... best not answer that.
Well thats me for the evening. Off to bed.

you know where ;-)
I am off for now ----> BED
share us people, chat soon

yido

Canon EOS-5D

05/14/2006 07:24:25 PM · #43

As for sharpness, I'll refer to photozone.de for it's tests.
//www.photozone.de/8Reviews/index.html
Looking at their MTF charts, at most of the focal length and aperature the 70-200 f4 and the f2/8L IS versions are over 1850 LW/PH, meaning excellent sharpness. I don't think we can tell the diff. between, lets say 1900 and 2000, so don't worry too much about that. The f2.8 IS can give you 1 extra stop by being f2.8 vs f4 and then 3 additional stops b/c of the IS, so that's 4 stops worth of shutter speed. That's impressive thing to consider if you need to handhold a shot at 200mm and all you can get is like 1/60 on the shutter speed. As for me, I like the non IS f2.8 for it's optics, I'm not a fan of IS. The f2.8 also gives you a brighter viewfinder as it let's in more light and with lenses like the 1Ds (I'm assuming Mark II?), it allows for faster AF speed vs a f4 lens, not to mention shallower DOF.

The same goes between bigma and 100-400L (AKA dust pumper, as you pull out the barrel to increase focal length like a air pump for a bicycle tire). Optically they are very similar but bigma has more range and it's only 2/3 of the price in USA. It can get hot in the sun as I shot a volleyball game at the beach for about 5 or 6 hours and noted the barrel getting hot, easy solution is to put a white hankerchief over it and whola, instant L lens (as long as you paint a red ring in the front, ha ha ha). I've had the bigma in DG when it first came out and folks in my photo group have been so impressed, I'm responsible for the sale of three or so bigmas personally.

In terms of 16-35 and 17-40, both are really good lenses. The only reason I'd prefer the 16-35 is for the wider end and for the f2.8 (for reasons mentioned above). If you are going to get the 1Ds, I would not get a 10-22 for the XT since the idea of going "double barrel" carrying two cameras is to augment, not reproduce the range. A better option would be to carry the 16-35 on a 1Ds and a 24-70 on a XT so you have a 16-35mm and 45-105ish range and not two cameras with a 16-35mm range. The whole idea of carrying two bodies is to reduce the need for continually changing lenses. So, I often put my main lens of the outing on my 1D MIIN and put a lens on my XT for occassional needs. So if I'm doing mostly long distance work, I'll put the Bigma on the N and put a 28-75 or something like that on the XT, just in case I need to shoot something wide. If you are going to get a FF body and a cropped sensor, keep the XT for mainly long range work, remember, the XT with a bigma is a 80-800 vs on a 1Ds, a 50-500. 500mm vs a 800mm is a big noticable difference. When I go to the zoo to shoot animals, I just take my bigma and the XT for that exact reason. Have a look at the results here.
//yido.smugmug.com/gallery/575260. If you routinely need more than 200mm, I'd get a supertelephoto zoom like the pumper or the bigma, if not, then the 2x TC will be fine in my view.

As for selling your lenses locally, think about it this way. You may be helping another budding photo enthusiasts like us get started with better lens than the kit or what not. So share the glass my friend.

Lastly, don't get into buying glass for the sake of buying glass, Canon and the third party guys will be making new glass routinely and you will never be able to stop buying them if you fall into this route. Remember, the greatest photogs in the past mainly used glass that we would laugh at as junk by today's standards, once again as I've heard from a photog, it's the depth of feeling, not depth of focus that matters. Once you get to a Pro grade level of lens, then the diff is more trivial. What will make the biggest difference is your composition and post processing.

Message edited by author 2006-05-14 19:28:19.

05/15/2006 07:19:04 AM · #44

yido, thank you for reply.
I decided to buy the following:
EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM
Canon 1Ds Mark II

EF 16-35mm f2.8L USM (later)

then later if i need i can get either bigma or 100-400mm, i am not thinking of primes over 200mm at this time.

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

05/15/2006 07:21:57 AM · #45

Originally posted by UAE_Guy:

then later if i need i can get either bigma or 100-400mm, i am not thinking of primes over 200mm at this time.

Hopefully that will satisfy your lens addiction. For a few months anyway... :)

Chiqui

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

05/15/2006 07:39:22 AM · #46

Originally posted by UAE_Guy:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
I read reviews on the 16-35 and 17-40 before settling on the 17-40. According to the reviews, the 17-40 is better at the wide end (which is what I was buying the WA lens for) and the 16-35 is better at the long end. The 17-40 is also much cheaper.

See the review on Luminous Landscape for more information. Also, Fred Miranda may have reviews of these two lenses.

Most of the Rockies Weekend images in my portfolio were taken with the 17-40.

thank you for your reply
I will add this lens [17-40] to my list and check it later.
deapee, i agree with you. What if someone got a budget for both, the body and lenses, for sure lenses are so perfect, but also body camera will affect, most of people here got 2-5 cameras bodies, and i will upgrade one time only not always, and lenses for sure i will buy good one from now, just tell me good cameras or lenses and the rest up to me, money is not an issue all the time.

2-5 camera bodies?????? I wouldn't say MOST people have that here. But then again, what do I know??
June

Chiqui

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

05/15/2006 07:44:28 AM · #47

UAE_guy, just curious, how long have you been into photography exactly?

June

05/15/2006 08:31:36 AM · #48

I am into photography when i was a kid.
but i started the photography world about 8 months ago with my fisrt camera, Nikon Coolpix8800.
I will tell you one reason only that make me to get the most expensive top camera. I met one indian guy in my area somewhere when i am walking to take some photos around, he was curious about me and me about him as well. we talked for a while and i saw his cam, he got 1Ds Mark II, he told me it is the best, i asked him about his job he told me he is just a salesman, and photography just a hobby not a business, so i think of that camera alot, why he got one and i can't. he is not that rich ro get expensive cameras and lense, anyway i asked him about his tools and photography, he told me that he loves photography since 3 years ago, and he got fuji finepix before but then he bought 1Ds for himself. I know most locals in my area can buy 4 1Ds with no problems, so i like to have good top camera doesn't matter to have best pics ot not, i saw it and tried it and i liked it very much, thats all. about lenses i think i have to stop discussing about it because people here think that i am all wrong and i don't know what get, i hope no one here wish that i never get anything.

05/15/2006 08:36:44 AM · #49

again, i saw a different in size printing between 8MP cameras and <10MP
i told you people that i print sometimes on A0 size, so it will be clear the difference, so then i have 2 choices between 2 FF <10MP cameras, they are 5D and 1Ds MarkII, most people just tell me to go for 5D because it is cheaper no another reason, even in magazines of photography i got they wrtie down the 1Ds is the best over 5D but 5D much cheaper so more preferable for money. Good luck for all and me.