| Author | Thread |
|
|
05/02/2006 11:32:59 AM · #1 |
For the first time I have three images in challenges so I put together one of those spreadsheets that allows you to determine the vote (or average vote) of the most recent voter(s) like I've seen others do.
This is what I learned...
About the only thing it does is ticks me off that some voter would think my masterpiece only rates a 4. A 4 or 5 is a pathetic rating and I put a lot of effort into taking and preparing images.
It was an interesting, time consuming experience but I think I will stop tracking individual votes from now on. :)
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 11:36:29 AM · #2 |
Good advice :-) No reason to further aggitate yourself. Anyway, I think I really don't care what voters think anyway. I do like comments though.
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 11:40:51 AM · #3 |
I'm to the point where I can almost do it in my head now.. so it's doubly frustrating.
Especially since I'm incapable of hiding the score like some can. lol.
Oh well. |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 11:42:20 AM · #4 |
I have found that it only drives me crazier...but it's also somewhat misleading: those super low votes of 1s and 2s that I get, don't always count in the end (if they don't vote for 20%, or if SC determines they are trolls, etc). So then, I get all worked up for no reason at all...well, at least as all "worked up" I get, which usually amounts to me muttering, "bummer".
I don't need that stress.
My spreadsheet has been put away...and I hope I have the strength to not wield it in the future. Having the UPDATE button is bad enough...:)
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 11:45:00 AM · #5 |
this is interesting ... for me, after 84 entries ... i don't really follow the votes at all anymore, there's just certain things i want to know:
1 - am i over a 6?
2 - whats my score after 100 votes?
3 - am i in ribbon contention?
other than that ... i don't follow it nearly as closely as i used to.
(edit to say if i'm over 6.5, i watch everything like a hawk)
Message edited by author 2006-05-02 11:46:15. |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 11:46:44 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
For the first time I have three images in challenges so I put together one of those spreadsheets that allows you to determine the vote (or average vote) of the most recent voter(s) like I've seen others do.
This is what I learned...
About the only thing it does is ticks me off that some voter would think my masterpiece only rates a 4. A 4 or 5 is a pathetic rating and I put a lot of effort into taking and preparing images.
It was an interesting, time consuming experience but I think I will stop tracking individual votes from now on. :) |
wow...
i just checked your profile and i'm surprised you care what votes you get at all. you have to know youre good.
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 11:46:52 AM · #7 |
| I can barely remember what my score was before I clicked the update button, let alone have a desire to track votes that will show up in a week anyway. It's pretty much just the average that I care about anyway. |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 11:51:43 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by hopper:
this is interesting ... for me, after 84 entries ... i don't really follow the votes at all anymore, there's just certain things i want to know:
1 - am i over a 6?
2 - whats my score after 100 votes?
3 - am i in ribbon contention? |
1) Yup.
2) Yup.
3) Obviously this varies by challenge, but how do you estimate ribbon contention?
Based on History since the beginning of the year I have a current entry that is easily Top 10, but inside of that it's hard to tell. |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 11:59:26 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Good advice :-) No reason to further aggitate yourself. Anyway, I think I really don't care what voters think anyway. I do like comments though. |
I do care what voters think. This is a generic group of PHOTOGRAPHERS and their opinion matters to me. What does not matter is what any one individual thinks if your main goal is mass appeal for your images. They can help you improve your technical skills.
I have to be honest about comments. I often learn little about photography from them.
I can learn from anyone, even from some of the strangest people that happen upon this site. But at best, from comments, I get bits and pieces of value to help me learn. That is not much. Though there are exceptions, most comments tell me little more than I already know.
I like to comment on images myself, not so much for what it does for them but moreso for what I learn for myself by doing it.
You took the time to comment on 100% of the photojournalism entries, one of which was mine. Though I've never been a photojournalist I was a columnist and feature story writer at a large newspaper (about 80,000 circulation) for about three years so think I understand where you are coming from.
I normally comment on about 5-10% of entries in challenges I vote. I took the time to comment on 100% of the entries in a challenge one time. Basically, what I discovered was that, for ME, the quality of comments I gave was even lower than it normally is. LOL!!! :) So now I just comment when the mode strikes or someone asks.
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 12:03:07 PM · #10 |
I just turned my scores off.
Let's see how long this lasts...
Start: 12:01pm 02-Apr-2006
End: ?
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 12:11:25 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by hopper:
... there's just certain things i want to know:
1 - am i over a 6?
2 - whats my score after 100 votes?
3 - am i in ribbon contention?
(edit to say if i'm over 6.5, i watch everything like a hawk) |
I identify with your #1. I do not submit an image unless I think it should get a rating over 6. I don't like to waste voter time.
I don't think a 6 is a very good score considering that "10" is defined as "good". A "6" is far below "good". I used to try to rate images according to what I think the group would rate an image. I was pretty good at it. I've since decided I was wrong and am disappointed in how I've rated images in the past. I think Librodo and Kiwiness understand rating images better than I. I think the rest of the "real" world understands how to rate images better than I. Now I am trying to readjust how I look at images when I vote.
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 12:39:26 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by mattmac:
I just turned my scores off.
Let's see how long this lasts...
Start: 12:01pm 02-Apr-2006
End: ? |
Matt... I understand where you are coming from. I have submitted to 80+ challenges and I like landscapes yet just recently "earned" a 4.4 rating on this one:
That is a lower rating than my very first non-landscape DPC challenge entry. But I'll tell you this, I'd be proud to submit that picture in a gallery showing of southwestern desert fine art photography anywhere, anytime.
I'm sure some out there will say... Steve, you shoehorned that picture into the challenge topic. I HAD to vote it lower. My answer to that is this... poppycock! An image has to stand on its own merit regardless of some arbirary DPC challenge theme. If it cannot stand on its own then it is worthless and does not deserve a good score under any conditions. A good image ALWAYS deserves a good score. Just my opinion.
Maybe I'm wrong... maybe it is just a lousy snapshot as the rating would imply. LOL! ;)
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 12:43:22 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by mattmac:
I just turned my scores off.
Let's see how long this lasts...
Start: 12:01pm 02-Apr-2006
End: ? |
Ahhhh - scores off! Feels good, doesn't it??
Now you'll get addicted to seeing if anyone's commented. :) |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 12:49:57 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I do care what voters think. This is a generic group of PHOTOGRAPHERS and their opinion matters to me. What does not matter is what any one individual thinks if your main goal is mass appeal for your images. |
Mass appeal is over-rated. It generally means high on asthetics low on meaning. It's great if you want to produce post cards or shoot for Hallmark.
PS. Don't take that as any indication of what I think about your photography. It is a general assertion.
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 12:51:52 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Good advice :-) No reason to further aggitate yourself. Anyway, I think I really don't care what voters think anyway. I do like comments though. |
What he said. |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 12:54:27 PM · #16 |
My lowest ribbon winner was a 6.6 and change (i think). So if the "show your score" thread is giving the impression of a low scoring challenge, then a 6.7 to 6.9 is likely top 5.
If everyone is raving about the entries, you better have more like a 7.2
That being said, I think a 7.0 garners a ribbon way more often than not.
Originally posted by _eug:
3) Obviously this varies by challenge, but how do you estimate ribbon contention? |
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 12:55:40 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
For the first time I have three images in challenges so I put together one of those spreadsheets that allows you to determine the vote (or average vote) of the most recent voter(s) like I've seen others do.
This is what I learned...
About the only thing it does is ticks me off that some voter would think my masterpiece only rates a 4. A 4 or 5 is a pathetic rating and I put a lot of effort into taking and preparing images.
It was an interesting, time consuming experience but I think I will stop tracking individual votes from now on. :) |
If your looking for a new project, I've got some Quick Books posting that I've been neglecting;) |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 01:02:20 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I'm sure some out there will say... Steve, you shoehorned that picture into the challenge topic. I HAD to vote it lower. My answer to that is this... poppycock! An image has to stand on its own merit regardless of some arbirary DPC challenge theme. If it cannot stand on its own then it is worthless and does not deserve a good score under any conditions. A good image ALWAYS deserves a good score. Just my opinion.
Maybe I'm wrong... maybe it is just a lousy snapshot as the rating would imply. LOL! ;) |
Nothing against you personally, understand.. but I seriously don't get where this mentality comes from. Yes, in most cases in the world, any creative effort should stand on its own merit.. *however*, when you *choose* to take part in a challenge theme, it isn't arbitrary.. it's law.
You choose to take part, you choose to accept the terms and conditions, and you choose to enter an image which may be voted lower because it doesn't meet the terms and conditions on which voters are *supposed* to be voting it.
The way I see it, this continued mentality (and not just yours, it's all over the site sometimes), that the challenge topics are arbitrary and shouldn't count because a photo is good on its own is simply a way to feel better about doing poorly.
That's just how I see it. We have challenge topics. The challenge is to shoot something that fits those topics and appeals to the masses. It is your right to *not* do that if you so choose, but it certainly isn't the voters fault if you do poorly.
*disclaimer* the "you" in all the above refers to the general and plural population, not stdavidson as an individual. |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 01:08:51 PM · #19 |
allow me to but in :)
I agree with you, but many photographers wish to use the photos submitted here for other purposes. Anastasia, Kiwiness, DrJones, and many others can use there submissions to further their personal portfolios - where other photographers (scalvert, graphic funk, etc) try to be as creative as possible within the challenge rules.
Neither philosophy is wrong, in my opinion.
Originally posted by Artyste:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I'm sure some out there will say... Steve, you shoehorned that picture into the challenge topic. I HAD to vote it lower. My answer to that is this... poppycock! An image has to stand on its own merit regardless of some arbirary DPC challenge theme. If it cannot stand on its own then it is worthless and does not deserve a good score under any conditions. A good image ALWAYS deserves a good score. Just my opinion.
Maybe I'm wrong... maybe it is just a lousy snapshot as the rating would imply. LOL! ;) |
Nothing against you personally, understand.. but I seriously don't get where this mentality comes from. Yes, in most cases in the world, any creative effort should stand on its own merit.. *however*, when you *choose* to take part in a challenge theme, it isn't arbitrary.. it's law.
You choose to take part, you choose to accept the terms and conditions, and you choose to enter an image which may be voted lower because it doesn't meet the terms and conditions on which voters are *supposed* to be voting it.
The way I see it, this continued mentality (and not just yours, it's all over the site sometimes), that the challenge topics are arbitrary and shouldn't count because a photo is good on its own is simply a way to feel better about doing poorly.
That's just how I see it. We have challenge topics. The challenge is to shoot something that fits those topics and appeals to the masses. It is your right to *not* do that if you so choose, but it certainly isn't the voters fault if you do poorly.
*disclaimer* the "you" in all the above refers to the general and plural population, not stdavidson as an individual. |
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 01:11:33 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by hopper:
allow me to but in :)
I agree with you, but many photographers wish to use the photos submitted here for other purposes. Anastasia, Kiwiness, DrJones, and many others can use there submissions to further their personal portfolios - where other photographers (scalvert, graphic funk, etc) try to be as creative as possible within the challenge rules.
Neither philosophy is wrong, in my opinion.
Originally posted by Artyste:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I'm sure some out there will say... Steve, you shoehorned that picture into the challenge topic. I HAD to vote it lower. My answer to that is this... poppycock! An image has to stand on its own merit regardless of some arbirary DPC challenge theme. If it cannot stand on its own then it is worthless and does not deserve a good score under any conditions. A good image ALWAYS deserves a good score. Just my opinion.
Maybe I'm wrong... maybe it is just a lousy snapshot as the rating would imply. LOL! ;) |
Nothing against you personally, understand.. but I seriously don't get where this mentality comes from. Yes, in most cases in the world, any creative effort should stand on its own merit.. *however*, when you *choose* to take part in a challenge theme, it isn't arbitrary.. it's law.
You choose to take part, you choose to accept the terms and conditions, and you choose to enter an image which may be voted lower because it doesn't meet the terms and conditions on which voters are *supposed* to be voting it.
The way I see it, this continued mentality (and not just yours, it's all over the site sometimes), that the challenge topics are arbitrary and shouldn't count because a photo is good on its own is simply a way to feel better about doing poorly.
That's just how I see it. We have challenge topics. The challenge is to shoot something that fits those topics and appeals to the masses. It is your right to *not* do that if you so choose, but it certainly isn't the voters fault if you do poorly.
*disclaimer* the "you" in all the above refers to the general and plural population, not stdavidson as an individual. |
|
You've missed my point. I'm not referring to what people do with their images after the challenges are over. I'm referring to the thought that voters should be scoring good images high even if they're in challenges that they don't fit in. That's just not something I think voters should be expected to do. |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 01:11:33 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by hopper:
Originally posted by _eug:
3) Obviously this varies by challenge, but how do you estimate ribbon contention? |
My lowest ribbon winner was a 6.6 and change (i think). So if the "show your score" thread is giving the impression of a low scoring challenge, then a 6.7 to 6.9 is likely top 5.
If everyone is raving about the entries, you better have more like a 7.2
That being said, I think a 7.0 garners a ribbon way more often than not. |
Must. Wait. Five. And. A. Half. More. Days. |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 01:15:04 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I do care what voters think. This is a generic group of PHOTOGRAPHERS and their opinion matters to me. What does not matter is what any one individual thinks if your main goal is mass appeal for your images. |
Mass appeal is over-rated. It generally means high on asthetics low on meaning. It's great if you want to produce post cards or shoot for Hallmark.
PS. Don't take that as any indication of what I think about your photography. It is a general assertion. |
No offense taken. I think I understand what you are saying. We both know that the masses can and have been wrong about things in the past. After all there is some old addage something to the effect that an artist is never recognized for their greatness until after they die.
Though I agree the masses can be hoodwinked by funk and flash in the short term I have the greatest confidence they will not be over time when core human values take hold. That is why I care.
Funny thing... I have photographer friends around here who take producing post cards very, very seriously. I don't but understand thier view. We all need to be recognized for something. :)
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 01:18:02 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Mass appeal is over-rated. It generally means high on asthetics low on meaning. It's great if you want to produce post cards or shoot for Hallmark. |
When does that Joey Lawrence line of warm fuzzy cards come out again? |
|
|
|
05/02/2006 01:18:22 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
For the first time I have three images in challenges so I put together one of those spreadsheets that allows you to determine the vote (or average vote) of the most recent voter(s) like I've seen others do.
This is what I learned...
About the only thing it does is ticks me off that some voter would think my masterpiece only rates a 4. A 4 or 5 is a pathetic rating and I put a lot of effort into taking and preparing images.
It was an interesting, time consuming experience but I think I will stop tracking individual votes from now on. :) |
If your looking for a new project, I've got some Quick Books posting that I've been neglecting;) |
That is sooooooooooo funny... Think I like you!
|
|
|
|
05/02/2006 01:31:40 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I'm sure some out there will say... Steve, you shoehorned that picture into the challenge topic. I HAD to vote it lower. My answer to that is this... poppycock! An image has to stand on its own merit regardless of some arbirary DPC challenge theme. If it cannot stand on its own then it is worthless and does not deserve a good score under any conditions. A good image ALWAYS deserves a good score. Just my opinion.
Maybe I'm wrong... maybe it is just a lousy snapshot as the rating would imply. LOL! ;) |
Nothing against you personally, understand.. but I seriously don't get where this mentality comes from. Yes, in most cases in the world, any creative effort should stand on its own merit.. *however*, when you *choose* to take part in a challenge theme, it isn't arbitrary.. it's law.
You choose to take part, you choose to accept the terms and conditions, and you choose to enter an image which may be voted lower because it doesn't meet the terms and conditions on which voters are *supposed* to be voting it.
The way I see it, this continued mentality (and not just yours, it's all over the site sometimes), that the challenge topics are arbitrary and shouldn't count because a photo is good on its own is simply a way to feel better about doing poorly.
That's just how I see it. We have challenge topics. The challenge is to shoot something that fits those topics and appeals to the masses. It is your right to *not* do that if you so choose, but it certainly isn't the voters fault if you do poorly.
*disclaimer* the "you" in all the above refers to the general and plural population, not stdavidson as an individual. |
I take no offense in anything you say. Your view is certainly as good or maybe even better than mine in this context.
This is where I have no problem taking my own view... If a picture is "good" it doesn't mean squat if it gets a low score here. It will always overcome it. It will still sell. If an image does well here based primarily that it "meets the challenge" then that does not mean squat either. It still won't sell. I want to take "good" pictures. :)
|
|
