Anyone who isn't submiting to C. Colours..

04/24/2006 09:38:15 AM · #26

Originally posted by Krisby:

well.. what to say.. first of all mr.coolhar i am sorry if you do not like my way of bettering my photographi. I have read the roules and there is nothing that prohibids me to ask people opinion of my art pre or post challenges. I took theys photos, i set them up, i postprossesed them im just asking people to give me tips on what coulde go better, not asking them to postpro it for me!! I am here to learn, im here to have fun and most of all i am here to get better and to see that i am getting better i whant my score to go up and for that to happen i need help. My friends don't know anything about photographi, they don't even know that complementary colours are so there is no help in asking them.

If you do not intend to use the tips you receive to improve your photos before you submit them to the challenge, then why is it so important that you get the help before the challenge begins? Why not be content to work with the advice you get during the challenge in the form of comments? After the challenge you can solicit any advise you want in these forums or in PMs. By asking for advise before the challenge begins you will be tempted to heed that advise to improve your scores. The entries will not be totally your own work and you'll be taking an unfair advantage over all the people who enter without the help of others. But, as you say, there is nothing preventing you from doing so, so do as you like and live with it.

Originally posted by Krisby:

I am sure you have shown someone your submision befor a challeng and asked how they liked it, ...

You are wrong about that. I have never shared any of my entries with anyone before submitting them. They are all entirely my own work. For better or for worse, I am willing to take my lumps from the voters.

04/24/2006 09:44:08 AM · #27

coolhar, I don't understand why this is such a big deal to you. I'm not entering nor am I gonna be able to vote but if you (not refering to "you" personally) can get some advice (since I am not in the same country as her) and give a few pointers before the challenge then what's the big deal??? The site is about learning and bettering yourself. There has been several threads on not getting enough comments so I really don't understand why your getting so bent out of shape about this especially if she can learn SOMETHING that could help her in the future. She's not asking for someone to edit the photo just view over the photo after she has edited it and give your opinion.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

04/24/2006 09:59:45 AM · #28

I have an idea. We already have a Critique Club on DPC that provides feedback on challenge entries after voting. Why not start a "Does this work?" club where members of the club can be DPC'rs that are not going to vote or submit to the next challenge. Then we can send our challenge entries to the club for feedback prior to challenge voting.

Great idea. What do you think?

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

04/24/2006 10:05:38 AM · #29

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Unless I read that wrong you have a issue with it as well??? (If not the disregard)

So she's 18 looking for advice on how to improve and you have 40+ (somethings) telling her that she is wrong for doing so when ppl that have been here long enough know that the CC doesn't always get to ALL the photo's in the que. I see no problem for a newbie doing this and its NOT like she has asked for it several times.

edit to add: do ppl really feel that threatened by her work???

Message edited by author 2006-04-24 10:08:07.

GuGi

Nikon D750

04/24/2006 10:17:14 AM · #30

Originally posted by Krisby:

Hey is there someone here whos not entering the Complementary Colors III challeng and can critique my entery so i can get as high a scoure as possible? Got my friends cam for a day and am hoping to get my highest in this one and need someone to tell me if i coulde do any thing better :)
Thanks
KristbjÃ¶rg Una

Please, can we get back to the original question here!!! Start a new thread or pick an old one, I am sure this has been discussed before.
I ask my family, I ask friends, I ask photofriends. That is how I learn to get better. Sometimes I am unsure and need the discussion.
KristbjÃ¶rg Una, I am not entering CCIII. Ã�Ã©r er velkomiÃ° aÃ° hafa samband ef Ã¾Ãº heldur aÃ° Ã¾Ãº getir haft eitthvaÃ° gagn af Ã¾vÃ. LÃ¡ttu Ã¾essa siÃ°apostula ekki skemma daginn fyrir Ã¾Ã©r.
Why don't you google this and find out.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

04/24/2006 10:21:23 AM · #31

I don't know. It's kind of the principle of the matter, not the person (age, experience, etc...).

Threatened? No. Just goes a bit against the general theme of DPC - yes/no? The collaboration with others' point.

I guess it's one of those things that if you didn't know about it, well - water under the bridge. It's been pointed out that others share images prior to entering a challenge. Doesn't quite seem right. In this case we have a public request in one of the forums for pre-challenge assistance.

You allow it once, does it open pandora's box?

edit to correct spelling.

Message edited by author 2006-04-24 10:33:43.

04/24/2006 10:37:16 AM · #32

Originally posted by glad2badad:

I understand what your saying but I'm saying she is 18 vs the 40+ jumping down her throat about asking for advice so she can learn and I believe thats what we are all her for.

04/24/2006 10:41:14 AM · #33

I have asked my sons which of 2 or 3 shots they like. None know anything about photography or post processing, but can say they like one shot more than another. I would not feel comfortable asking anyone on DPC for an opinion.

Getting ideas on what would make a shot better before submitting just does not seem right. There are people with totally awesome skills on this site, and for someone (anyone, on this site or not) to tell me "dodge here, burn this, darken that area" makes the shot as much theirs as mine. Part of my entries is my ability, or lack thereof, to see what is good about my image and how to bring that out. Learning occurs when during or after voting people tell me how I could have made it better. I then have more knowledge to use on my next entry.

just my $.02

Edit to add: I don't think age has anything to do with this. There are some teenagers who have far more skill than I will probably ever have, and a 40 year old beginner is still a beginner.

Message edited by author 2006-04-24 10:43:32.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

04/24/2006 10:46:02 AM · #34

Originally posted by notonline:

I understand what your saying but I'm saying she is 18 vs the 40+ jumping down her throat about asking for advice so she can learn and I believe thats what we are all her for.

This is probably a side issue, but age is really kind of irrelevant on this site isn't it? I'm 40+ but there are teenagers on this site with more photo and post-processing experience than I have. After looking at the OP's profile I see your point has merit in this case (as to level of experience)...

04/24/2006 10:49:10 AM · #35

If the help asked for by Krisby, or anyone else for that matter, is not going to be used to improve the proposed challenge entry shot before submitting it, then why does it need to come before voting starts? Is it really going to be a serious impediment to someone's learning for them to wait a few days? Couldn't we, as a community, make that small sacriface to assure that no one uses help, advice or tips to gain an unfair advantage in our challenges?

If you do not agree that this is unethical in a certain way, is it too much to ask that you defer to the sensibilities of those who are uncomfortable with it? just out of respect for your fellow dpc'ers? We all want to have our views respected here even when others don't see things exactly the same way. We should also be willing to give respect too.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

04/24/2006 10:52:52 AM · #36

Originally posted by chaimelle:

I have asked my sons which of 2 or 3 shots they like.

Edit to add: I don't think age has anything to do with this. There are some teenagers who have far more skill than I will probably ever have, and a 40 year old beginner is still a beginner.

So she has stated that she has nobody to ask about which photo is better and even if you look at my photo's they aren't much better. Refering to 40+ the reply to coolhar was in reference that he is has been doing this for a while and/or has more knowledge then her.

GuGi

Nikon D750

04/24/2006 10:58:09 AM · #37

[/quote]
I understand what your saying but I'm saying she is 18 vs the 40+ jumping down her throat about asking for advice so she can learn and I believe thats what we are all her for. [/quote]

Exactly. If someone would send 3 or 4 images to me, asking are these ok, my answer would be yes or no, or maybe that nr. 3 is best, or that I can't see any of them meeting the challenge.
She is asking openly. She could have pm-ed someone her age or someone she admires, or someone from Iceland for the language sake etc etc etc. She is open about it and honest and is not asking for Photoshophelp as I see it.
As for age. Yes, there are some awsome young photographers here that seem very confident, and then there are those more insecure.
We learn by doing, we learn by asking, we learn by co-operating, we learn by sharing knowledge and experience, we learn by being open and honest with each other, by meeting each other half way, three quarters of the way.
We learn by trusting each other to do the right thing.
Edit: spelling.

Message edited by author 2006-04-24 10:59:10.

04/24/2006 11:01:07 AM · #38

coolhar, do you not think people in the dpcfanatics chat room share their work??? or get opinions about it???

04/24/2006 11:01:36 AM · #39

Originally posted by notonline:

I have asked my sons probably 3 or 4 times out of 54 entries. (I have asked them and then submitted what I wanted anyway, so I don't necessarily even take their advice!) If you don't have anyone to ask, submit what you think is best, and the votes will tell you if you made the right decision. She sounded like she has a shot she wants to enter, has done what she knows how to do, and wants someone to tell her what to change to make it better. If she follows their suggestions, the final image is not hers alone anymore.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

04/24/2006 11:08:52 AM · #40

Originally posted by GuGi:

I understand what your saying but I'm saying she is 18 vs the 40+ jumping down her throat about asking for advice so she can learn and I believe thats what we are all her for. [/quote]

Exactly. If someone would send 3 or 4 images to me, asking are these ok, my answer would be yes or no, or maybe that nr. 3 is best, or that I can't see any of them meeting the challenge.
She is asking openly. She could have pm-ed someone her age or someone she admires, or someone from Iceland for the language sake etc etc etc. She is open about it and honest and is not asking for Photoshophelp as I see it.
As for age. Yes, there are some awsome young photographers here that seem very confident, and then there are those more insecure.
We learn by doing, we learn by asking, we learn by co-operating, we learn by sharing knowledge and experience, we learn by being open and honest with each other, by meeting each other half way, three quarters of the way.
We learn by trusting each other to do the right thing.
Edit: spelling. [/quote]

The original post says she wants someone to critique her entry. That is what comments during voting are for. So she gets a lower score on this challenge, but she is a week away from a new challenge and a new chance to apply what she learns from her entry. Sharing knowledge comes during voting and after in the forums.

As for people doing the right thing--we have seen noon shots in the 4-5 AM challenge, 1/100s shots in the 2 Second challenge, shots taken outside of the posted dates (yes, this is sometimes a mistake, but there have been a few who did it knowingly). While most probably follow the rules I don't think we can trust everyone on this site to do the right thing.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

04/24/2006 11:18:30 AM · #41

I think getting advice before a Challenge from forum members could be opening a big can of worms...maybe a small can? For those here that use the site mostly for competition and less for learning I see where this could be an issue.

I also think it could be the most powerful learning tool. Some people, from what I've seen make the same mistakes over and over and having someone help put the breaks on a potentially low scoring decisions could make really help things to sink.

Have you ever seen an image that had a terrible crop and wished that you could have suggested something better, pre-challenge knowing good and well that would have made or broke a 6 for someone who never breaks a 6?

Message edited by author 2006-04-24 11:28:21.

04/24/2006 11:27:56 AM · #42

Originally posted by notonline:

coolhar, do you not think people in the dpcfanatics chat room share their work??? or get opinions about it???

Don't know, never been there. Have you?

04/24/2006 12:13:11 PM · #43

Originally posted by coolhar:

Originally posted by notonline:
coolhar, do you not think people in the dpcfanatics chat room share their work??? or get opinions about it???
Don't know, never been there. Have you?

No but I remember reading about it in another thread which is why I know it has happened.

You people are taking this way to seriously. She's asking for help thats it. Are you realy threatened that she will beat you (not refering to you as an individual but you the reader) in this challenge or beat you on a regular basis??? Thats sad. This is a place to learn, NOT just a place to win a virtual ribbon. Winning should come second to learning.

dpdave

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III

04/24/2006 12:20:25 PM · #44

Originally posted by coolhar:

If you do not agree that this is unethical in a certain way, is it too much to ask that you defer to the sensibilities of those who are uncomfortable with it? just out of respect for your fellow dpc'ers? We all want to have our views respected here even when others don't see things exactly the same way. We should also be willing to give respect too.

In other words, whether you agree with me or not, let's do it my way...I remember why I ignore a lot of your threads. It's a shame, because you could give people a lot of knowledge, Harvey.

04/24/2006 12:20:25 PM · #45

Why do you keep saying people feel threatened? I don't feel that way at all. And no one is trying to prevent anyone from learning anything. Just trying to make the point that it should wait until after the voting starts so that no one can confuse it with an attempt to gain an advantege. What's so urgent about it that people can't wait a few days?

04/24/2006 12:21:50 PM · #46

Originally posted by dpdave:

In other words, whether you agree with me or not, let's do it my way...I remember why I ignore a lot of your threads. It's a shame, because you could give people a lot of knowledge, Harvey.

I don't think I could give any to you. You're to hard-headed.

04/24/2006 12:23:37 PM · #47

Originally posted by coolhar:

Why do you keep saying people feel threatened? I don't feel that way at all.

Then why does it matter so much if she does this??? (either way I don't really care but didn't like the way you ppl jumped on her for asking - JMO)

04/24/2006 12:26:51 PM · #48

Originally posted by notonline:

Originally posted by coolhar:
Why do you keep saying people feel threatened? I don't feel that way at all.

Then why does it matter so much if she does this??? (either way I don't really care but didn't like the way you ppl jumped on her for asking - JMO)

Why can't it wait until after voting starts? Why won't anyone address that question?

04/24/2006 12:33:49 PM · #49

I guess I see challenges as me doing my best--to take my best shot, to meet the challenge, and to process it to the best of my ability. I hope to compete with others who are doing the same. I have learned a lot by doing this, and hopefully have improved. If I take a shot and let someone else figure out a way to make it look great, that is not me doing my best. Why not take a lower score on the current challenge, learn from it and apply it to future challenges?

I do not feel threatened. I am not likely to win anyway, but at least let me lose to people doing their own work. Part of processing is the vision of what a shot can become, and to me, that should come from the photographer. Now if the OP knew she wanted to darken an area she could ask a general question about how to do that. Knowing what you want to do and needing help on how to do it is different than asking others what should be done.

Edit grammar and spelling

Message edited by author 2006-04-24 12:37:21.