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04/17/2006 07:22:45 PM · #76 |
Since we've had a rash of them today, I just wanted to remind everyone that under the new forum rules, outtakes should only be posted after voting ends for the relevant challenge. This includes "too late for the challenge" type shots as well.
Thanks,
Terry
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04/17/2006 07:34:11 PM · #77 |
SC and others I'm sorry I posted the thread in question. I had no intentions of violating any forum rules. I did not see anywhere in the new forum rules that said I could not post it. I'm assuming the rule I was accused of violating is Rule #2 "Please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended. Doing so can affect voting and commenting, so please save these discussions for after the end of the voting period. Please report any posts discussing these, and do not reply to them. Outtake threads posted early will be removed.
My picture was not an outtake. I don't even have an entry in the challenge. I was just asking for a critique, not what anyone would of scored it. This leaves me kind of confused. Could I have posted it if I would of chosen a different thread name such as C/C please instead of what I named it "12:01 to late..."?
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04/17/2006 07:35:09 PM · #78 |
| I think much of it is in the way you word it, always has been. wink-wink. ;^) |
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04/17/2006 07:43:33 PM · #79 |
actually, the issue is more that people feel it is a distraction to call out a single photo for thoughts and comments while there are literally hundreds of photos of the same topic awaiting votes and comments...in the challenge.
of course, posting outtakes that are similar to your challenge entry is also a no-no. :) |
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04/17/2006 07:44:33 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Since it is somewhat of a change in policy, I just want to make specific mention of rule 2, "please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended."
We've had numerous requests about this. In the past users have posted outtakes which were similar to other users' entries, and this has affected the scores on those entries. In the past we have encouraged people to wait until voting is complete before posting outtakes. This is now formalized as a site policy.
~Terry |
Little help here... What is an "Outtake"? A bit more definition for some of the other terms would be great as well. I cannot abide by something I don't know; plain english please. |
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04/17/2006 07:49:54 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
actually, the issue is more that people feel it is a distraction to call out a single photo for thoughts and comments while there are literally hundreds of photos of the same topic awaiting votes and comments...in the challenge.
of course, posting outtakes that are similar to your challenge entry is also a no-no. :) |
I'm not trying to be rude just trying to get a little clarification. Are you saying while a portrait challenge is in the voting stage we should or cannot post a portrait picture and ask for C/C?
I'm not talking about an outtake which is defined as:
1.
a. A section or scene, as of a movie, that is filmed but not used in the final version.
b. A complete version, as of a recording, that is dropped in favor of another version.
What I posted was not an outtake. I did not even enter because I was to late and just asking for C/C. And said in my post - "If anyone has time".
Message edited by author 2006-04-17 19:53:52.
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04/17/2006 07:54:05 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by lfordhere:
Little help here... What is an "Outtake"? A bit more definition for some of the other terms would be great as well. I cannot abide by something I don't know; plain english please. |
An "outtake" is defined as "a discarded image" in the context of a specific piece of work or series. For example, we see on television lots of "outtake shows" where they show the bits that got cut from the final version; usually they are humorous, and almost always involve "mistakes" that make us laugh.
In DPC, an outtake is a little different, and a lot depends on how you present it. For any given challenge, you may go to 3 or 4 locations and shoot a hundred shots total, and you only enter one; every shot you did not enter is an outtake. We have a history here of, as soon as the challenge posts up, people start displaying the shots they took but did not enter, often being completely different from the one they did enter, and asking for feedback on them.
"I entered something completely different, but I almost entered this; how would you have scored it?" is the classic beginning to an outtake post.
The problem with outtakes is that if they are posted and discussed whiule voting in underway, they have the potential to influence the way people score other entries, by other members, that may be similar or related. So, in fairness, it's better not to post the outtakes until after the voting is finished, to keep the playing field level and uncluttered.
Robt.
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04/17/2006 07:56:52 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by Southern Gentleman:
What I posted was not an outtake. I did not even enter because I was to late and just asking for C/C. And said in my post - "If anyone has time". |
You meant well, no question about it. And you don't have a horse in the race, so there's no influence to be gained. But by posting a particular image and relating it to the challenge and asking for feedback, you made it possible that responses to your request might influence voters on images similar to yours.
Had you just posted it as a "portrait of my mother-in-law" or whatever, the issue would not have arisen.
Robt.
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04/17/2006 08:03:32 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by lfordhere:
Little help here... What is an "Outtake"? A bit more definition for some of the other terms would be great as well. I cannot abide by something I don't know; plain english please. |
An "outtake" is defined as "a discarded image" in the context of a specific piece of work or series. For example, we see on television lots of "outtake shows" where they show the bits that got cut from the final version; usually they are humorous, and almost always involve "mistakes" that make us laugh.
In DPC, an outtake is a little different, and a lot depends on how you present it. For any given challenge, you may go to 3 or 4 locations and shoot a hundred shots total, and you only enter one; every shot you did not enter is an outtake. We have a history here of, as soon as the challenge posts up, people start displaying the shots they took but did not enter, often being completely different from the one they did enter, and asking for feedback on them.
"I entered something completely different, but I almost entered this; how would you have scored it?" is the classic beginning to an outtake post.
The problem with outtakes is that if they are posted and discussed whiule voting in underway, they have the potential to influence the way people score other entries, by other members, that may be similar or related. So, in fairness, it's better not to post the outtakes until after the voting is finished, to keep the playing field level and uncluttered.
Robt. |
Ahhh, get it completely now, and is fair enough. Thanks. |
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04/17/2006 08:05:17 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Southern Gentleman:
What I posted was not an outtake. I did not even enter because I was to late and just asking for C/C. And said in my post - "If anyone has time". |
You meant well, no question about it. And you don't have a horse in the race, so there's no influence to be gained. But by posting a particular image and relating it to the challenge and asking for feedback, you made it possible that responses to your request might influence voters on images similar to yours.
Had you just posted it as a "portrait of my mother-in-law" or whatever, the issue would not have arisen.
Robt. |
Robert Thank you for your clarification. I got an email for one of the SC telling me it was removed because of forum rules. That's ok with me. If I violated any rule I should be called on it. I did not consider it an outtake since it was not an outtake of an image I had entered in likeness or not. I think Rule #2 needs a little clarification.
But I see where you and the SC is coming from, it was my wording in the thread that could pose a problem. Now that I know that is an issue I will not do that again and respect all rules of DPC as I have always done in the past.
To all effected I offer my sincere apologies.
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04/19/2006 05:43:26 AM · #86 |
how do you actually post a thread?
I know this is going to be staring me in the face |
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04/19/2006 05:47:38 AM · #87 |
Do you mean start a thread?
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04/19/2006 05:48:30 AM · #88 |
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04/19/2006 05:51:57 AM · #89 |
Originally posted by boysetsfire:
how do you actually post a thread? |
you didn't receive a copy of "DPChallenge User Manual" when you joined the membership? |
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04/19/2006 05:54:32 AM · #90 |
Click on Community and then forum. There you will see lots of different catergories of forum discussions ie Q & A, Hardware or if you are feeling controversial Rant. Click on the catergory that you want to start a thread on. You will see a list of recent threads started you should do a cursory search to see you are not duplicating a thread already started. To the right of this page is a button that says new topic. Click on that and type away :)
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04/19/2006 06:01:42 AM · #91 |
joynim, thankyou very helpfull,
crayon, with all your effort you could have just informed me.
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04/23/2006 05:37:42 PM · #92 |
| Ah, brilliant. Though I've had an account here for a while, I've just begun to actively participate. You guys are great; great humor, a welcoming atmosphere that encourages growth and improvement, and creative yet flexible challenges all work to make the site a truly wonderful online community. |
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04/24/2006 01:34:26 AM · #93 |
| I am disappointed in outtake censorship ruling. |
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04/24/2006 02:09:16 AM · #94 |
Originally posted by undieyatch:
I am disappointed in outtake censorship ruling. |
True. Many other people have been disappointed when a photo similar to their entry was posted by someone else before the voting even started -- I suspect that the discussion of that photo would have influenced their voting on the entry, had the phtographer not given up on the idea ...
Other people are disappointed when their entry gets only four comments, while someone else can post their outtake in a thread and get 20 comments.
In the discussion leading up to this decision, I argued that allowing someone to post an outtake before the voting was over was the equivalent of giving them multiple entries, and was not fair to those who only entered their one photo, and figured everyone else would do the same.
The logic is that any outtake or alternate is properly discussed in the context of the results -- "how would this have done compared to that" is only a relevant question when you actually know what "that" scored -- and that posting photos related to the challenge before/during the voting more-or-less necessarily runs afoul of the rules against "influencing the voting" on the upcoming challenge.
I think once people get used to the new pattern of posting it will feel more logical and natural. |
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04/24/2006 03:40:08 AM · #95 |
Your words are wasted - I am unconvinced. I view outakes as inconsequential and the effects you describe are insignificant compared to the infringement the censorship prescribes. Thank you for acknowledment of my dissent.
Message edited by author 2006-04-24 03:49:56. |
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08/04/2006 03:52:39 PM · #96 |
I just stumbled into this thread, and I'm posting a reply in the hopes someone will notice it and:
1) Newbies will understand a community convention they might not yet know about
2) Someone on the SC will consider my suggestion. This isn't exactly a Web site suggestion, but rather a suggestion on how to respond to situations like this in the future.
First, let me say that I completely understand the thinking behind not allowing outtake discussions during a challenge, and I support it.
However, I ran afoul of it quite innocently, using exactly the reasoning and language Bear_Music suggested was typical. Had I received Bear's explanation, that would've been that.
Instead, what happened was that I got a couple of responses to my thread, went away for an hour or so, and came back to find the thread gone. Not locked, no email from SC. Gone. In defense of the SC, it's possible someone did try to send me a PM, because I later discovered my idiot ISP is blocking dpchallenge emails as spam.
So I posted a question in another thread to ask what happened, and someone was kind enough to explain.
End result: a new member, who was excited to have paid up and joined a cool new community, felt really lost and confused.
Hence my suggestion: instead of deleting those threads that new people will inevitably and innocently begin, how about:
1) Removing the offending thumb.
2) Posting a link to this thread.
3) Locking it?
I know that it's really easy for those of you who've heard the same discussions over and over to forget that newbies haven't. I'm not asking for you to take a lot of time to explain it. But simply linking to this thread wouldn't take much time.
Thanks.
Edit: I now realize there's a RULE, not a convention. Still, it's human nature to skim through the rules once and then forget ones that aren't immediately relevant and then genuinely be surprised when it shows up later.
Message edited by author 2006-08-04 16:26:14. |
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08/04/2006 04:18:24 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
... my suggestion: instead of deleting those threads that new people will inevitably and innocently begin, how about:
1) Removing the offending thumb.
2) Posting a link to this thread.
3) Locking it? |
Pretty good suggestions : )
I'll certainly try something like that if I have such a situation. |
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