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04/13/2006 09:17:37 PM · #1 |
i recently received the following
Originally posted by job seeker:
Dear Skip Rowland,
My name is Susie Smith [not her real name, of course]. I am taking photography classes at Blueberry Hill High School [not her real school, of course]. I am starting to think about getting a summer job and I would like to work with photography. I have looked at your work and was wondering if you would need an assistant this summer. Thanks for your time. |
well, of course, i was flattered, so i replied
Originally posted by my reply:
Greetings, Susie!
Thanks for your kind words. At the moment, I am not looking to hire anyone, at least for regular work. However, there might be some opportunities over the course of the summer. I do all of my shooting on-site (meaning I am not operating out of a studio), and most of it is either photojournalism assignments for newspapers and magazines, or it is covering sports events to sell images to parents. If you're in high school, I would have to meet you with your parents before doing anything, though.
Thanks again, feel free to email me anytime, but, please DO NOT contact anyone, though, without your parents knowledge--especially DO NOT arrange to meet anyone without your parents being present the first time!
Good luck with everything,
Skip Rowland, Photographer |
just some food for thought...you can never be too safe.
edit: changed the name of the high school again so that ennil wouldn't get wiggy with the catholic thing
Message edited by author 2006-04-14 16:08:04. |
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04/13/2006 09:21:30 PM · #2 |
Good advice!
If I were bitter and cynical, I'd guess that the FBI agent who sent you that note thinks so, too ... |
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04/13/2006 09:21:41 PM · #3 |
If I offer to bring my parents, do you think I'll have better luck at getting an assistant position? ;)
So true, though. Some program, maybe Dateline, has been running this series where they convince pedophiles to come meet a 13 year old boy and then they catch them when they show up at the house and interview them. It's amazingly painful to watch. "Uhh...I came for an interview." "You came for an interivew at 11:30 at night with a six pack?" |
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04/13/2006 09:21:58 PM · #4 |
| Seems a little too overkill to me. Obviously she's mature enough to take the initiative to seek you out for one of her interests; this isn't exactly a random myspace meeting or anything. Let's say she's 16...even if she was 18, there really isn't much difference; if something 'bad' were to happen, it'd happen regardless of the age. It doesn't even specifically say anything about a meeting; she's just interested in information, and if there's something available, then swell. |
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04/13/2006 09:24:57 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by MrXpress:
Seems a little too overkill to me. Obviously she's mature enough to take the initiative to seek you out for one of her interests; this isn't exactly a random myspace meeting or anything. Let's say she's 16...even if she was 18, there really isn't much difference; if something 'bad' were to happen, it'd happen regardless of the age. It doesn't even specifically say anything about a meeting; she's just interested in information, and if there's something available, then swell. |
It seems to me Skip's protecting HIMSELF as much as he is her...
R.
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04/13/2006 09:27:02 PM · #6 |
| Wise move, Skip. If she contacted you without her parents' knowledge, she could easily be contacting others who might not be so noble. |
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04/13/2006 09:27:22 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It seems to me Skip's protecting HIMSELF as much as he is her...
R. |
Fair enough, but I think he was far too defensive in the "DO NOT CONTACT ANYONE!!" bit. A great deal of kids in high school work, so why should she be barred from seeking other opportunities other than the requisite grocery store/mcdonalds type deal they usually have? I'm pretty sure it if it were, say, a 16 yr old. male, there would have been no addendum at the end. |
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04/13/2006 09:31:43 PM · #8 |
Give her my number...I could use an assistant. Tell her to send me a headshot first before I consider.
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04/13/2006 09:32:45 PM · #9 |
There's a difference between going to a place of business and requesting a job interview, and setting up a rendevous with some unknown person at an insecure location.
"Do not meet anyone" doesn't really include the former scenario ... |
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04/13/2006 09:33:46 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Give her my number...I could use an assistant. Tell her to send me a headshot first before I consider. |
You might want to reconsider this strategy in light of my first posting ... |
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04/13/2006 09:46:12 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by mk:
If I offer to bring my parents, do you think I'll have better luck at getting an assistant position? ;)
So true, though. Some program, maybe Dateline, has been running this series where they convince pedophiles to come meet a 13 year old boy and then they catch them when they show up at the house and interview them. It's amazingly painful to watch. "Uhh...I came for an interview." "You came for an interivew at 11:30 at night with a six pack?" |
Here's the organization that coordinated the bust on Dateline. If you want a real eye-opener, check out this site and get a firsthand view of the perverts that are out there.
Perverted Justice |
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04/13/2006 09:46:23 PM · #12 |
generale, shannon, robt, mk, you are all dead on. while i am fairly sure this was a legit approach, i also saw that dateline entrapment episode, and was pretty amazed at the initial bait that was thrown out. so, yes, there was a little cya in there. i'll probably follow up with the photography instructor, just to get him to make sure his students aren't putting themselves at risk.
here in richmond, we're gearing up for the start of the ben fawley murder trial. he hooked up with a lovely 17-yr-old VCU freshman before she had been away from home 2 weeks, then raped, murdered, and dumped her body out on a farm near the chesapeak bay. oh, yeah, he was a "photographer"...
it has nothing to do with gender; it has everything to do with common sense and personal safety. i wouldn't even meet an 18 yr old co-ed by myself. ain't gonna happen. anybody that argues with this either doesn't read the papers or watch tv...
Message edited by author 2006-04-13 21:47:28. |
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04/13/2006 10:02:40 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
generale, shannon, robt, mk, you are all dead on. while i am fairly sure this was a legit approach, i also saw that dateline entrapment episode, and was pretty amazed at the initial bait that was thrown out. so, yes, there was a little cya in there. i'll probably follow up with the photography instructor, just to get him to make sure his students aren't putting themselves at risk.
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The chatlogs for those busts are posted on pervertedjustice.com.
They have a strict rule not to "bait" the predators and not to discuss anything sexual until the predator brings it up. All you have to do is setup a Yahoo profile stating that you are a teenager. Within minutes you will be bombarded with grown men asking you if you have a web cam and trying to meet up. There is absolutely no need for entrapment in the sick world of child sexual predators. They will fall all over themselves to hook up with a child; and they are rarely punished.
Message edited by author 2006-04-13 22:03:14. |
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04/13/2006 10:25:52 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by deapee:
Give her my number...I could use an assistant. Tell her to send me a headshot first before I consider. |
You might want to reconsider this strategy in light of my first posting ... |
reconsider what...hiring her as an assistant? nonsense.
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04/13/2006 10:43:09 PM · #15 |
Can't be going out on assgnment with an ugly assistant...LOL
Originally posted by deapee:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by deapee:
Give her my number...I could use an assistant. Tell her to send me a headshot first before I consider. |
You might want to reconsider this strategy in light of my first posting ... |
reconsider what...hiring her as an assistant? nonsense. |
Message edited by author 2006-04-13 22:44:07.
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04/13/2006 10:55:06 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Can't be going out on assgnment with an ugly assistant...LOL
Originally posted by deapee:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by deapee:
Give her my number...I could use an assistant. Tell her to send me a headshot first before I consider. |
You might want to reconsider this strategy in light of my first posting ... |
reconsider what...hiring her as an assistant? nonsense. |
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Can't be going out on assignment with someone that doesn't know anything about photography -- can she at least choose a good photo to send in? Like everything else, anything can be read into any general statement.
David
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04/13/2006 11:14:07 PM · #17 |
Sounds like its a good thing she contacted skiprow instead of deapee.
Skip, you responded exactly like you should have - encouraging, unpresuming, yet protective. Nothing wrong there. |
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04/14/2006 01:48:50 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
generale, shannon, robt, mk, you are all dead on. while i am fairly sure this was a legit approach, i also saw that dateline entrapment episode, and was pretty amazed at the initial bait that was thrown out. so, yes, there was a little cya in there. i'll probably follow up with the photography instructor, just to get him to make sure his students aren't putting themselves at risk.
here in richmond, we're gearing up for the start of the ben fawley murder trial. he hooked up with a lovely 17-yr-old VCU freshman before she had been away from home 2 weeks, then raped, murdered, and dumped her body out on a farm near the chesapeak bay. oh, yeah, he was a "photographer"...
it has nothing to do with gender; it has everything to do with common sense and personal safety. i wouldn't even meet an 18 yr old co-ed by myself. ain't gonna happen. anybody that argues with this either doesn't read the papers or watch tv... |
I agree - personal safety - for both parties.
I think your response was right on the money Skip. Good job! :)
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04/14/2006 02:25:58 AM · #19 |
| I think you nailed it right on the head Skip. Great response. And good sound advice for anyone that might find themselves in a similar situation. |
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04/14/2006 04:11:31 AM · #20 |
Great advice.
I always do that when minor models (18-) approach me.
I ask them to ask their parrents and ask them to bring somebody to the shoot with them, and also give them advice to NEVER go somewhere alone.
I think it's common sense for most of us, but if you see how many young girls just do this stuff without their parrents knowledge, go to a shoot without anybody knowing where they are...
Scarry....
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04/14/2006 06:06:12 AM · #21 |
get a good cup of coffee and read this article. a nice little piece about the ugly side of cyberspace crashing into the real world.
i can't apologize for sounding too 'parentish' because, well, i am a parent. as an online, virtual community, we should be looking to protect and guide those who need it. it is an absolute tragedy when a young life, full of potential, is needlessly lost simply by making a stupid decision... |
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04/14/2006 06:14:32 AM · #22 |
I think you handled this perfectly Skip... ::hugs:: for thinking of the child before thinking of adults!
While you all might be good people who wouldnt hurt anyone... there are NOT good people out there masquerading as good people...
Message edited by author 2006-04-14 06:22:47. |
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04/14/2006 07:06:42 AM · #23 |
It seems that this subject is getting brought up more and more...and it just makes me think back six or seven years when I poked around a lot of forums and chatrooms for the first time...wow, I suddenly remember how many times men who were in their mid 20's to early 30's talking to me a lot, I knew enough then to be able to pick up on if things were getting creepy, but I got a loooot of requests for pictures.
...well, I still do, and it's still kind of weird sometimes :\
I exist too much on the internet anyway, though, but whether subconsciously or not usually most of the people I end up being close friends with are geographically inconvenient.
Anyway, Skip, it's great of you to protect both yourself and the other girl...I mean, though, if she's in high school she could be 18 anyway, but it never hurts to be safe, right.
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04/14/2006 07:17:42 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
The chatlogs for those busts are posted on pervertedjustice.com.
They have a strict rule not to "bait" the predators and not to discuss anything sexual until the predator brings it up. All you have to do is setup a Yahoo profile stating that you are a teenager. Within minutes you will be bombarded with grown men asking you if you have a web cam and trying to meet up. There is absolutely no need for entrapment in the sick world of child sexual predators. |
If there's no need for entrapment, then why does that organisation exist?
A problem with sting operations like 'pervertedjustice' is that while they might uncover suspected 'predators' they also make it more difficult to bring a successful prosecution, because of the grey area of entrapment.
Going online as a 14yo girl calling yourself 'CuteAshley4u1990' and posting photographs of yourself (as one of the logs on that site described).... if that's not walking the thin line of entrapment I don't know what is!
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04/14/2006 07:19:28 AM · #25 |
| I guess I'll have to disagree with everyone and say that the risk you take of sheltering a teenager from birth and then suddenly releasing them into the real world once they become an adult is substantially greater than that of having a teenager be the victim of a sexual predator. The e-mail from that girl actually shows good parenting to me, that she would take the initiative and make the first contact for something she is genuinely interested in. What else do you propose she do, avoid all contacts (and thus prospects/opportunities) until she reaches that magical age where she is somehow free of danger? It's not like she's a rebel, and it is FAR different than the typical random myspace meeting. It's almost insulting to young females that there is this need to try and protect and shadow their every move; someone who is naive is naive whether they are 15 or 22. For what it's worth, I've observed that girls in college put themselves into FAR more compromising positions than girls in high school. I guess that doesn't apply though, since they aren't 'minors'. |
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