Woohoo! Advanced editing on ALL open challenges!

Tamron AF 18-270mm F/3,5-6,3 Di II VC LD Aspherical [IF] macro for Canon

04/12/2006 01:58:45 PM · #26

Originally posted by Plachoochi:

My question to anyone who would be willing to assist a newbie is: how often does that happen? Is there a reason that registered users usually are given only basic editing challenges?

Advanced Editing is mostly reserved for paying members, and having access to it is one of the benefits of paying your $25 a year. It's like a perk. If all challenges were at the same level, there'd be less incentive to upgrade membership, and less money available for site improvements etc.

R.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

04/12/2006 01:59:16 PM · #27

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

...I see no reason to assume this represents any sort of a sea change in DPC, sheesh.

Robt.

Only time will tell for certain (keep an eye on next week). According to Ben (Konador), this is only a one week event - but I'm still curious how he got that information. Advanced editing for the Open challenges was a surprise to SC at rollover according to muckpond.

dahved

Canon EOS-50D

04/12/2006 02:01:43 PM · #28

It has happened before, BTW--Wildlife and Tribute. (And Mechanical.)

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 14:05:13.

04/12/2006 02:01:59 PM · #29

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
...I see no reason to assume this represents any sort of a sea change in DPC, sheesh.

Robt.

Only time will tell for certain (keep an eye on next week). According to Ben (Konador), this is only a one week event - but I'm still curious how he got that information. Advanced editing for the Open challenges was a surprise to SC at rollover according to muckpond.

Yes, this is WHY we may safely assume it is a singular occasion, not a harbinger of a change; IF D&L were thinking of such a fundamental change in how we operate, they'd have been communicating with SC for feedback. You can count on it.

R.

kirbic

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

04/12/2006 02:07:06 PM · #30

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Yes, it was a surprise to us... that in itself is no suprise, as the SC doesn't usually make the decisions as to scheduling of challenges, and D&L certainly shouldn't feel like they have to discuss things like this with us ahead of time.
With regard to Ben's statement, I'm absolutely sure that if such a major change was contemplated, it *would* be discussed, at length, and it has not. Therefore, I feel Ben was quite justified in making the statement, though he probably has no more direct information than I do.

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

04/12/2006 02:14:24 PM · #31

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Like Ben, you speak as if you are privy to knowledge that others of us are not yet aware of. I hope you are correct.

If the purpose was to give the registered users a taste of Advanced rules (which I think is a good idea) couldn't that have been accomplished without depriving the fans of Basic rules of a challenge this week? Maybe there will be a Thursday challenge run under Basic rules.

I still think it would be cool to have a week when all the challenges were run under Basic rules. Woo Hoo, wouldn't that be great!

04/12/2006 02:19:48 PM · #32

Originally posted by coolhar:

Like Ben, you speak as if you are privy to knowledge that others of us are not yet aware of. I hope you are correct.

.....

I still think it would be cool to have a week when all the challenges were run under Basic rules. Woo Hoo, wouldn't that be great!

The first is just common sense; D&L would not make such a change permanent without discussing the ramifications with their team. Just like they haven't changed the rules arbitrarily, they've put them up for discussion/modification in SC and site council has sought community feedback.

I agree with you, a week of all basic would be a fun variation.

R.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

04/12/2006 02:22:19 PM · #33

A lot can be accomplished under basic rules. There is no reason you can't enter an advanced rules challenge with a straight from camera/no editing shot. Take your shot, do as much or as little post processing as you like, and see what happens. This is supposed to be fun--have fun with composition, lighting, learn something new about your camera or your processing software, go someplace you've never been before. The experience is worth more than the virtual ribbon, anyway.

Edit to add--I wouldn't have a problem with all basic challenges for one week. And I would probably even participate in a straight from camera challenge.

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 14:24:20.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

04/12/2006 02:31:25 PM · #34

Originally posted by chaimelle:

Experience and fun IS good. And I agree with you for the most part. My preference is to go easy on editing so I'm a fan of Basic editing challenges. However, I still like to be competitive.

I can almost guarantee you now that the Open challenges this week are under Advanced editing that at least 5 of the top 10 entries for the 'Something Old II' will be heavily dodged/burned/grunged for that dramatic look popular with DPC'rs currently. That puts those that are still fairly new to post-processing at a disadvantage this week - not only in the challenges being discussed, but also in the side events going on (WPL and MS Photo Tournament).

BeeCee

Nikon D40

04/12/2006 02:39:19 PM · #35

This probably won't be taken well, but I'm throwing it out anyway. Keep in mind, though, that I just woke up and am still on my first cup of coffee, so any thoughts are just off the top of my head :)

As a registered user, my first thought on seeing Advanced Editing for this week was, "COOL!" That lasted all of about two seconds, before reality hit and I realised that it means I don't stand a snowball's chance in a category that I may have been able to pull off something half-decent. A week is NOT enough time to both find/create/capture the shot AND become a photoshop wizard! Hellz, for me it's not enough time to do even the first ;)

Don\'t get me wrong, I love the chance to try something in Advanced, but it might have been good to have one of each, so us real newbies could choose between spending our time behind the viewfinder or behind the monitor? My other thought was to possibly have one Advanced, every now and then, available ONLY to registered users, to give them a taste without feeling too intimidated by the pros to even try.

I certainly don't want this site "dumbed down" to cater to newbies, because we're here to learn and I've learned more in my short time here than anywhere else, and love it, and it's a great idea to offer a taste of what's available if we pay. I'm just throwing out some thoughts from the newbie side of the tracks :)

(ps. Some of us are fully aware what we're missing by not paying and would LOVE to, but just can't manage even that amount right now, dammit! :( )

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 14:42:12.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

04/12/2006 02:56:26 PM · #36

I think it's a misconception that PS "wizards" have more of an advantage in advanced challenges than in open challenges. In fact, I believe the opposite is true. I believe you have a HUGE advantage in open challenges if you really know photoshop well, because you know how to use the few "legal" tools to full advantage. In advanced editing there are many time-saving shortcuts that are legal and don't take a lot of skill to accomplish.

In basic editing, on the other hand, the same results can often be attained if you know your tools and are willing to invest the time to do it all by hand. Take the following blue-ribbon image in an advanced challenge:

The only thing I did here that I couldn't accomplish in basic editing is some very minor cloning. The "contrast masking" isn't basic-legal, BUT CS2 has "shadow/highlight" adjustment, and that does the same thing and it's legal. I just don't have CS2. I could have accomplished virtually the same result, though, with careful atention to curves and levels in basic editing; you'll notice my editing steps show NO levels or curves used. It's just faster to do it with contrast masking... Doing it with levels and curves (in basic) takes MUCH more skill and practice.

R.

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 14:57:53.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

04/12/2006 03:08:42 PM · #37

Originally posted by glad2badad:

... That puts those that are still fairly new to post-processing at a disadvantage this week ...

only at a (possible) competitive disadvantage as far as their final score, but it seems to me it represents a distinct advantage as a learning opportunity -- how else is someone supposed to get better at post-processing than by trying something new and asking for an evaluation of the results?

This site is primarily intended as an educational site, to help people become better photographers (including post-processing), and uses the challenges as a mechanism or format to accomplish that end. In that context, I don't think it's a big deal.

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 15:10:10.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

04/12/2006 03:16:45 PM · #38

I also think it is a misconception that all/most members are ps wizards. When I joined in August 2005, I was using Photoshop Album, and the simple fixes available (more basic than the basic rules!). I had PS Elements, but had no idea what to do with it. I learned a few basics from this site, and entered member challenges anyway, knowing I wasn't even proficient at basic editing. So much is still way over my head, but little by little I am learning and improving. If Bear and I each took a copy of of the same photo, there is no way I could equal his processing, yet I have finished higher than him in 1 or 2 challenges.
I was starting to get depressed over my lack of talent and skill, but I realized I truly enjoy the process--finding/setting up the shot, taking the picture, and processing, and that is more important to me than winning. Of course, a 6.5 or 7 would be nice, so would a ribbon or top ten. But if it never happens I can live with that.

talmy

Nikon D300s

04/12/2006 03:22:19 PM · #39

Perhaps knowing PS well helps get ribbons in the member challenges, but I find I do about evenly well (being mediocre) in both types of challenges even though I've done little that doesn't fit under the basic rules. (Ironically, what I have done seems to get nothing but negative remarks!)

I would like to see some straight-from-the-camera challenges, though.

muckpond

Nikon D200

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

04/12/2006 03:37:29 PM · #40

um...wasn't this supposed to be a happy thread?

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/12/2006 03:39:49 PM · #41

Originally posted by muckpond:

um...wasn't this supposed to be a happy thread?

Some people are hard to please...

R.

Canon EOS-20D

04/12/2006 03:42:33 PM · #42

If converting both open challenges to advanced editing is a permanent thing, I will post 30 nude photos of myself in the forums and then give my camera and all the various equipment to Coolhar to do with what he pleases.

(And then I will run the town nude, screaming about conspiracies.)

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/12/2006 03:43:15 PM · #43

I'm happy, but I'll be happier when a new member challenge is announced as Color Portrait is way beyond my equipment and interest. At least with open challenges there is a choice!

And by the way I have yet to dodge or burn anything!

mattmac

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

04/12/2006 03:43:53 PM · #44

Originally posted by mk:

Why do I have the feeling that Langdon will make that happen, now...just to see the result?
:)

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

04/12/2006 04:09:25 PM · #45

Originally posted by mk:

What, exactly, gave you the idea that anyone, including me and the OP, thought it was permanent?

Thanks for the offer but I already have a 20D and too many lenses. However if you want to do something to please me you could lose the flashing banner gif from your profile page.

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/12/2006 04:12:24 PM · #46

Originally posted by coolhar:

Perhaps it was that I just couldn't imagine that there was so much hyperbole over one week.

Don't be jealous of my awesome signature. I'll make you one too, if you're nice.

Rikki

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/12/2006 04:15:37 PM · #47

happy thoughts. that was my OP ;)

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

04/12/2006 04:20:30 PM · #48

Change is as good as a holiday, embrace it or you will grow old and set in your ways.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

04/12/2006 05:47:52 PM · #49

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by glad2badad:
... That puts those that are still fairly new to post-processing at a disadvantage this week ...

only at a (possible) competitive disadvantage as far as their final score, ...

Well, final score is kind of important for many, is it not? With basically 3 competitions currently going on; DPChallenge, WPL (DPChallenge result driven), and MS Photo Tournament (also DPChallenge result driven) the rules for this week not only changed for the DPChallenge but also changed the whole thinking process for the other two special events I just mentioned.

Originally posted by GeneralE:

...how else is someone supposed to get better at post-processing than by trying something new and asking for an evaluation of the results?

Pony up the $25 and become a full member.

It's not that major of a deal I guess if it's only one week, but it did tilt the playing field IMO and I'm not happy about it. Can you tell? ;^)