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03/31/2006 08:52:32 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I'll throw in my 1 cent (I only half care about this topic, otherwise I'd put in the standard amount)...
I have always failed to see the attraction of strip clubs. I went into the Navy at 17 and believe me, I got dragged to many a strip club around the world and I seriously never found anything good about it. What is the point? Do you get all worked up and then go home to your wife and close your eyes and pretend she is "Candy" the pole dancer? For the women that are ok with it, is that what you get out of it that makes you approve?
Just to stir things up a little more, would any of you guys whose wives "let you" (or encourage you or have a don't ask, don't tell policy) go to strip clubs be ok with your wife wanting to work at the strip club? How about your daughter?
Not being judgemental or anything - I really am just curious. |
My youngest uncle's wife worked at a strip club for 15 years. Not as a stripper, but as a bartender. He only had an issue with it until she started bringing home about $1500/wk (mostly untaxed). When his daughter turned 18, she also started working there as a bartender. He did have a problem with that, but there really wasn't anything he could do about it. His wife quit when the tips went down (as they do as you get older) and his daughter quit when she got pregnant.
As for what goes on, at least at this place (and this is second hand) at least 50% of those girls would leave to have sex with someone for the right amount of money. To them it was just an extention of the job.
As for my husband, this was an issue for us at a younger age, he wanted to go, I didn't want him to. But, it was always his choice. I found it to be a waste of money at a time when money was tight.
edit to add: he was quite sure he didn't want me to go to one though!
Message edited by author 2006-03-31 08:56:57. |
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03/31/2006 09:54:51 AM · #27 |
I was a bartender/manager at a strip club in Lubbock Texas for two years. I was married at the time. Initialy my wife was concerned about this. But after a while she bagan to meet the dancers and soon became freinds with a few of them. As for the appeal of a strip club. Sure the naked bodies are enjoyable to look at, but in a marriage after seeing eachother everyday, a lot of the mystery fades away and you become comfortable with eachother. This is not a bad thing, but it often happens that a couple will stop flirting, grow into a dull relationship. Dinner out on fridays become nothing special, the radom flower, grows further apart, and the magic fades. At strip club you feel wanted, lusted for, and if you buy them a drink it is because you wanted to not because it's expected. I have discovered that the sexual arousal is minimal when comapered to the inflated ego and the feel of bieng apreciated and wanted. This tends to renew the mens vigor more than the boobies. Though they do help. I think that going to a strip club every once in a while is actualy healthy for a relation ship. So long as the spouse can submiss their jelousy, fear of cheating, and feelings of inadequacy. I know that last part is a tough one for both sexes. Sorry for the bad spelling but I'm still working on my morning cofee.
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03/31/2006 10:24:52 AM · #28 |
My wife doesn't mind if I go. She figures I'm a lot less likely to get in trouble with another lady there than at a usual club.
I don't care if she'd go. I have no idea why people are so insecure about their partners going to a stirp joint.
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03/31/2006 10:38:26 AM · #29 |
It's really nice when both partners have the same values about issues like this.
My husband was recently invited to a bachelor party and was relieved that he couldn't make it; because he hates going to strip clubs. He was in the Air Force and has been "dragged" to quite a few, including The Red Light District in Amsterdam. He seems to have gotten it out of his system. My guess is there is one "dragger" in all the military, and he's a very busy guy;)
Not willing to get into a debate about the social repercussions of the strip club culture; but it is my opinion that the positives do not outweigh the negatives.
After having previously dated someone who talked, almost incessantly, about strippers and the associated lifestyle (indiscriminate sex and drugs) it's nice to have found a man who has little interest in that scene.
I wouldn't try to control him if he wanted to go. I'm just SO glad he doesn't!
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03/31/2006 10:47:08 AM · #30 |
Excellent point. Much easier that way.
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
It's really nice when both partners have the same values about issues like this.
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03/31/2006 10:54:43 AM · #31 |
if my girl wanted to go to see a strip show then i think the place will more than likely be full of women.. so.
and if i went to a strip bar it would possibly be full of men.. so
I dont see the problem but as Jacko said, it's all about trust, if they would go off with someone at a strip joint then they would go off with someone from the supermarket too..
Freedom and trust are wonderfull things.
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03/31/2006 10:57:11 AM · #32 |
??? Man, I sure feel like an innocent reading this post.
I don't honestly understand why people like to go to strip joints either. I figure it must be either because their friends are going or because they really want to see boobies.
Occasionally, I really want to see boobies, but I count that as a chromosome thing, and there doesn't seem to be any reason to go to a strip club just to get an eyefull or whatever else might happen there. To be honest, I'd probably be pretty embarrassed if I got a little 'too warmed up' in such a public setting.
Seems like an odd thing to want to experience with a bunch of other somewhat questionable folk anyhow.
Having these personal views, I find that I very seldom make friends with people that actually would go/consider going to a strip club. If I do, we don't usually have the kind of relationship where they would actually invite me along.
Of course maybe I'm a bit of a weirdo anyhow. I've not actually been to a bar/gotten drunk either... I count it much more fun to just grab an Orange Juice and go for a bike ride or something.
As to my feelings on an SO going, I think the same things apply. I don't consider myself all that vanilla, and a healthy interest in sex is a pretty important thing for me in a relationship, but I just don't think that I would end up with someone who really felt that strongly about going to strip clubs that this would be an issue...
If it did, I'd probably talk about it. I talk a lot.
Message edited by author 2006-03-31 10:58:30. |
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03/31/2006 11:02:59 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by tristalisk:
I was a bartender/manager at a strip club in Lubbock Texas for two years. |
With Waylon and Willie and the boys?
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03/31/2006 11:12:36 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by loseme:
Just a quick question for anyone. I am just curious if you would let your partner/spouse go to a strip club? |
Am I the first person to answer no? |
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03/31/2006 11:26:54 AM · #35 |
| My wife told me "I don't care where you get your appetite, as long as you come home for dinner." |
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03/31/2006 11:28:52 AM · #36 |
I post this only as food for thought and a possible insight into the opposite opinion. I have been to a strip club once at a bachelor party where I was a groomsman. I regret it.
CS Lewis is perhaps the ultimate Christian philosopher of the 20th century. Here's what he has to say. It may make slightly more sense to know it was written in the 40s or 50s in England. Again, this is posted only as food for thought...
Chastity is the most unpopular of the Christian virtues. There is no getting away from it; the Christian rule is, 'Either marriage, with complete faithfulness to your partner, or else total abstinence.' Now this is so difficult and so contrary to our instincts, that obviously either Christianity is wrong or our sexual instinct, as it now is, has gone wrong. One or the other. Of course, being a Christian, I think it is the instinct which has gone wrong. But I have other reasons for thinking so. The biological purpose of sex is children, just as the biological purpose of eating is to repair the body. Now if we eat whenever we feel inclined and just as much as we want, it is quite true most of us will eat too much: but not terrifically too much. One man may eat enough for two, but he does not eat enough for ten. The appetite goes a little beyond its biological purpose, but not enormously. But if a healthy young man indulged his sexual appetite whenever he felt inclined, and if each act produced a baby, then in ten years he might easily populate a small village. This appetite is in ludicrous and preposterous excess of its function. Or take it another way. You can get a large audience together for a strip-tease act - that is, to watch a girl undress on the stage. Now suppose you come to a country where you could fill a theatre by simply bringing a covered plate on to the stage and then slowly lifting the cover so as to let every one see, just before the lights went out, that it contained a mutton chop or a bit of bacon, would you not think that in that country something had gone wrong with the appetite for food? And would not anyone who had grown up in a different world think there was something equally queer about the state of the sex instinct among us? One critic said that if he found a country in which such striptease acts with food were popular, he would conclude that the people of that country were starving. He meant, of course, to imply that such things as the strip-tease act resulted not from sexual corruption but from sexual starvation. I agree with him that if, in some strange land, we found that similar acts with mutton chops were popular, one of the possible explanations which would occur to me would be famine. But the next step would be to test our hypothesis by finding out whether, in fact, much or little food was being consumed in that country. If the evidence showed that a good deal was being eaten, then of course we should have to abandon the hypothesis of starvation and try to think of another one. In the same way, before accepting sexual starvation as the cause of the strip-tease, we should have to look for evidence that there is in fact more sexual abstinence in our age than in those ages when things like the strip-tease were unknown. But surely there is no such evidence. Contraceptives have made sexual indulgence far less costly within marriage and far safer outside it than ever before, and public opinion is less hostile to illicit unions and even to perversion than it has been since Pagan times. Nor is the hypothesis of 'starvation' the only one we can imagine. Everyone knows that the sexual appetite, like our other appetites, grows by indulgence. Starving men may think much about food, but so do gluttons; the gorged, as well as the famished, like titillations. Here is a third point. You find very few people who want to eat things that really are not food or to do other things with food instead of eating it. In other words, perversions of the food appetite are rare. But perversions of the sex instinct are numerous, hard to cure, and frightful. I am sorry to have to go into all these details but I must. The reason why I must is that you and I, for the last twenty years, have been fed all day long on good solid lies about sex. We have been told, till one is sick of hearing it, that sexual desire is in the same state as any of our other natural desires and that if only we abandon the silly old Victorian idea of hushing it up, everything in the garden will be lovely. It is not true. The moment you look at the facts, and away from the propaganda, you see that it is not. They tell you sex has become a mess because it was hushed up. But for the last twenty years it has not been. It has been chattered about all day long. Yet it is still in a mess. If hushing up had been the cause of the trouble, ventilation would have set it right. But it has not. I think it is the other way round. I think the human race originally hushed it up because it had become such a mess. |
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03/31/2006 11:29:04 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
My wife told me "I don't care where you get your appetite, as long as you come home for dinner." |
Well, why have a hamburger when there is steak at home, right?
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03/31/2006 11:53:55 AM · #38 |
Exactly....
Originally posted by Jacko:
Excellent point. Much easier that way.
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
It's really nice when both partners have the same values about issues like this.
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03/31/2006 12:31:38 PM · #39 |
Ok I must say this topic is very interesting ,I my self have been to strip clubs worked in one and have been in the Bar&Restaurant, business for just about 12 yrs ,i run a few bars my self in my time and must tell you that you dont have to go to a strip club to be unfaithfull,it has happend right in front of me seing married men and women doing the durty on the other half ! Strip clubs are for window shopers, watch pay and if you are lucky and can afford it have a go at the rest .I spend 8 yrs with my wife and in that period of time i worked in fancy bar's and clubs ,and i must admit the temptation is huge but not once i have tryed to go astray ,very simple i was happy with what i had at that time and that person at home waiting for me every night trusted Me .
In the end of the day ,in relationships you do whatever turns you on ,most important of all ''It has to work for both of you ''
Trust and Honesty ,if those values dont exist in relationship people shouldnt be toghether .
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04/01/2006 02:33:46 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by tristalisk:
I was a bartender/manager at a strip club in Lubbock Texas for two years. |
With Waylon and Willie and the boys? |
That was Luckenbach, Texas. As for me, all my rowdy friends have settled down. |
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04/01/2006 03:15:09 AM · #41 |
I say yes, because first if you cant trust him/her why be married, second alot of dancers at strip clubs arent all that and really arent competetion. and thirdly as long as you know they coming home with/to you whats it matter.
Only reason Id so no is $$, would rather save the bucks to get some new glass :) |
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04/01/2006 05:16:13 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
... Now suppose you come to a country where you could fill a theatre by simply bringing a covered plate on to the stage and then slowly lifting the cover so as to let every one see, just before the lights went out, that it contained a mutton chop or a bit of bacon, would you not think that in that country something had gone wrong with the appetite for food? ... |
Is it not common practice in some of the better restraunts for the meal to be prepared (at least partially) at the table? Is the sight of the preparation necessary for the enjoyment of the meal? Not at all, but watching a master at their craft is a treat to be savored. The same is true of those who have mastered the art of teasing. As was mentioned earlier, strip clubs aren't about sex as much as they are about ego and having a good time.
But to address what Mr. Lewis had to say from a different perspective. Strip clubs and other such avenues of 'sexual excess' are the direct result of the unnatural perversion of our natural desires by the enforced inhibitions of certain religions. A sex drive is a natural thing, and as all things in nature do it tends to try and balance itself. Clamp the desire down to heavily on the natural sexual desire and it is inevitable for it to burst forth in excess in some form or another.
David
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04/01/2006 10:23:33 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by David.C:
[ Clamp the desire down to heavily on the natural sexual desire and it is inevitable for it to burst forth in excess in some form or another.
David |
So would it be your contention that a marriage cannot survive outside some natural extracurricular outlet for sexual energy? be it porn, strip-clubs, or affairs?
If your answer is no, then I think your argument falls apart. If you answer yes, then I think you are in a distinct minority of opinion. |
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04/01/2006 10:40:16 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by MQuinn:
My wife told me "I don't care where you get your appetite, as long as you come home for dinner." |
Well, why have a hamburger when there is steak at home, right? |
But in so many cases, you're watching the Steak dance and coming home to the Hamburger...
I assume that could be true after many, many years of marriage?
Message edited by author 2006-04-01 10:52:47. |
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04/01/2006 11:03:00 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by MQuinn:
My wife told me "I don't care where you get your appetite, as long as you come home for dinner." |
Well, why have a hamburger when there is steak at home, right? |
But in so many cases, you're watching the Steak dance and coming home to the Hamburger...
I assume that could be true after many, many years of marriage? |
LOL! Maybe they should be buying Hamburger Helper instead of going out for steak.
It's not much incentive for women to keep themselves up when they face such impossible standards as are presented in strip clubs. In my case, aging and self-acceptance is a tough job that wouldn't be made easier if I knew my husband had gone out and spent our hard-earned money to stare at something he can't have and I can't be.
I know people who are still hot for each other after umpteen years of marriage. It seems that they spend their energy adoring each other instead of unobtainable strangers. Just my 2cents.
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04/01/2006 11:27:06 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by David.C:
[ Clamp the desire down to heavily on the natural sexual desire and it is inevitable for it to burst forth in excess in some form or another.
David |
So would it be your contention that a marriage cannot survive outside some natural extracurricular outlet for sexual energy? be it porn, strip-clubs, or affairs?
If your answer is no, then I think your argument falls apart. If you answer yes, then I think you are in a distinct minority of opinion. |
I don't think that's what he is saying at all. Think of it like this: If you have a child and he really wants to go play with the neighbor child next door, and you have said no, because you feel that the child is a bad influence. Your child does not understand your reasoning and does not see what is so bad about playing with this kid so your child will 'sneak around' to do it -- not so much to hurt you, but to see what in the world could be so bad that you would continually say no.
It's the same argument here: the more someone tells you no, the more you want to go out and do it. Whether it be your religion, your parents, or your spouse that tells you that heading out to see strippers is wrong, the more that you really want to go and see how it can be bad.
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04/01/2006 11:33:20 AM · #47 |
There are a number of different levels of patronage to Strip Joints.
For example:
1. There's the guy who goes because it's the closest he'll ever come to having any sex.....ever! Without strip clubs...these poor fellows could be quite dangerous.
2. There's the guy who chats to all the strippers and is under the impression that they actually find him super charming ...as he doles tons of cash into their g-strings. Big losers IMO.
3. There are guys who go in groups after work at the end of the week for a few beers and a laugh and the girls provide and a very nice backdrop. Harmless fun.
4. There are guys who love their wives dearly but still fantasize or would simply like to look at other women on occassion and instead of cheating or keeping these thoughts painfully pent up, the strip clubs provide a nice safe haven/outlet. These guys are probably helping their marriages, more than you think whether their wives understand that bit or not.
5. Then there's you're old fashioned World Class Pervs. Usually by-products of a severe Catholic upbringing.
6. There are guys who stop into strip clubs while away on business trips becuase it's the best way to be in the company of women, regardless of the true nature of things and Hotel bars totally s**k.
So go, relax and Get Yer Ya Ya's Out!!!
Whoever you are...
Message edited by author 2006-04-01 11:54:30. |
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04/01/2006 12:14:07 PM · #48 |
I'm surprised at how many people go to strip clubs.
I personally would just hope whoever my spouse ends up to be wouldn't ever have interest in going to strip club...that's more the type of person I'd be interested in.
I've never been to one and never want to go, just is too raunchy for me. I was in Australia one time with some friends at a bar and they decided to go to a strip club so I walked back to the hostel...still happy with that decision even after their stories. I personally don't think it's harmless fun....i don't think its like hugely detrimental but there's a good statement for this
"Pornography rapes the mind"
I know I probably sound like a staunch old man and at 22 yrs old most people don't share my views, and I have nothin against a good time...but solicited arousal is just trashy to me.
So to answer the question, if my spouse ever wanted to go...whatever. I'm not gonna put any rules on a person I've decided to invest all my trust in...but like I said...I hope it's someone I know well enough that wouldn't ever have interest in going to one. |
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04/01/2006 12:17:47 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by princess:
I don't think that's what he is saying at all. Think of it like this: If you have a child and he really wants to go play with the neighbor child next door, and you have said no, because you feel that the child is a bad influence. Your child does not understand your reasoning and does not see what is so bad about playing with this kid so your child will 'sneak around' to do it -- not so much to hurt you, but to see what in the world could be so bad that you would continually say no.
It's the same argument here: the more someone tells you no, the more you want to go out and do it. Whether it be your religion, your parents, or your spouse that tells you that heading out to see strippers is wrong, the more that you really want to go and see how it can be bad. |
So the more someone says something is wrong, the more ok it is? What if your parents really are right?
Perhaps we should start prefacing these posts with our marriage experience. After all, I wouldn't necessarily take photo advice from someone who has only used the camera on their phone for two weeks.
I'm not here to be the parent of y'all. You are big boys and girls. You can make your own decisions. I'm just posting my opinion and that is this: the mainstreaming of porn (with strip clubs being a quasi-extension of this) is causing insidious harm to society. 1) It objectifies women who already struggle with their quest for equality in society. 2) It turns sex into a one-sided act of self-gratification; not a good quality to help a marriage succeed.
I love to debate and as long as it's civil I'm happy to talk. But perhaps I'll bow out soon because honestly I can't begin to fathom how this is part of a healthy marriage (and perhaps that will mean I'll be the first to break the civility). And to post my own "credentials", I am 35 and have been married to the same woman for 12 years in July. |
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04/01/2006 12:33:23 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
the mainstreaming of porn (with strip clubs being a quasi-extension of this) is causing insidious harm to society. 1) It objectifies women who already struggle with their quest for equality in society. |
In University I had a longish relationship with an artist from a dirt-poor family of no intellectual accomplishment in previous generations. She was the first of her family to attend college. She worked her way through school by "exotic dancing" in a strip club in Providence. She used the club, in other words, to further her "quest for equality". She was a wonderful person and completely comfortable with herself.
MOST of the girls working this club were college students. NONE of them that I knew personally seemed to have any unresolved issues here, they all seemed healthy enough. That's a limited sampling and not a fair one, of course, but...
Also, while the current "shape" or "form" of strip clubs may be relatively new, on the grand scale, bawdy entertainments have been with us since ancient days. One way or another, like it or not, approve or not, there seems to be a fairly widespread need being answered, or why would these entertainments have prospered for so many centuries?
Robt.
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