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03/27/2006 09:09:38 PM · #51 |
| If you are asking the question in public, you have doubts and it's bothering you. Only you can answer where your conscience will take you and you are the only one that has to live with the response that you give yourself! |
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03/27/2006 09:09:54 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Photography isn't a commodity like baseball cards...nor should it be considered like this.
and he didn't steal the card, be bought it for the price they wanted. |
No, he bought it for the price the cashier mistakenly read it to be.
So, you're saying that stealing commodities is OK? |
He didn't steal it. He got a great deal.
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03/27/2006 09:10:11 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
and he didn't steal the card, be bought it for the price they wanted. |
Correction, he bought it for the price the clerk mistakenly read. Big difference. |
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03/27/2006 09:13:56 PM · #54 |
So if you go into an antique store in the middle of know where and you find a rare paiting that you know is very valuable, but the sticker says $50.
Are you gonna give what they are asking for or tell them how much it's really worth?
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03/27/2006 09:16:09 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Photography isn't a commodity like baseball cards...nor should it be considered like this.
and he didn't steal the card, be bought it for the price they wanted. |
No, he bought it for the price the cashier mistakenly read it to be.
So, you're saying that stealing commodities is OK? |
He didn't steal it. He got a great deal. |
Sure...And if the bank teller mistakenly gives me a $100.00 instead of a $10.00, I should keep it and consider it a "great deal", right? |
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03/27/2006 09:20:50 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
So if you go into an antique store in the middle of know where and you find a rare paiting that you know is very valuable, but the sticker says $50.
Are you gonna give what they are asking for or tell them how much it's really worth? |
Apples and oranges. Can't you see that? The antique store deliberately priced the item to sell. The store clerk made an error.
If you are walking behind someone and they drop a twenty on the floor - do you tell them, or just pick it up and put it in your pocket? If the kid at the gas station accidentaly gives you $10 more than you should get for your purchase, do you tell them, or keep it. The hell with the kid who has to balance his register. To hell with the baseball card clerk who has to answer to his boss. Is that what you're saying? Is that where your morals and ethics are?
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03/27/2006 09:22:52 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
So if you go into an antique store in the middle of know where and you find a rare paiting that you know is very valuable, but the sticker says $50.
Are you gonna give what they are asking for or tell them how much it's really worth? |
If I went into an antique store, in the middle of nowhere, and found a rare painting that is very valuable, I'd question whether it was marked $.50 or $50.00. And, yes, I've done this before. There's a difference between paying the asking price and getting a bargain and taking advantage of an employee's mistake for your own benefit.
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03/27/2006 09:28:11 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Photography isn't a commodity like baseball cards...nor should it be considered like this. |
I understand that but the issue is still the same. Because of your negative view on baseball card dealers you find justification for keeping the card. My point is one can easily hold a similar justification for stealing and using photos that do not belong to them. By your logic you should be fine with that.
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
and he didn't steal the card, be bought it for the price they wanted. |
Agreed, however I get the impression from your earlier posts that even if it were your opinion wouldn't change. Am I wrong?
Message edited by author 2006-03-27 21:29:32.
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03/27/2006 09:28:18 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
So if you go into an antique store in the middle of know where and you find a rare paiting that you know is very valuable, but the sticker says $50.
Are you gonna give what they are asking for or tell them how much it's really worth? |
If I went into an antique store, in the middle of nowhere, and found a rare painting that is very valuable, I'd question whether it was marked $.50 or $50.00. And, yes, I've done this before. There's a difference between paying the asking price and getting a bargain and taking advantage of an employee's mistake for your own benefit. |
Exactly, you are gaining from your knowledge, not their mistake. |
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03/27/2006 09:32:22 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by kawesttex:
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
So if you go into an antique store in the middle of know where and you find a rare paiting that you know is very valuable, but the sticker says $50.
Are you gonna give what they are asking for or tell them how much it's really worth? |
If I went into an antique store, in the middle of nowhere, and found a rare painting that is very valuable, I'd question whether it was marked $.50 or $50.00. And, yes, I've done this before. There's a difference between paying the asking price and getting a bargain and taking advantage of an employee's mistake for your own benefit. |
Exactly, you are gaining from your knowledge, not their mistake. |
I've missed out on some "bargains" by clarifying the asking price, but I can sleep at night knowing that I'm the kind of person that I would like to do business with.
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03/27/2006 09:57:14 PM · #61 |
I would call the place, speak with the owner about it, and see what he had to say. I'd go with whatever he wanted me to do about it.
I personally could not just keep it and not at least attempt to make it right.
(begin ramble)
I was grocery shopping recently and they had a sale on my favorite sausage, usually $4/per and they were marked down for $1/per. I chose like 6 packs or something. When they were scanned, they came up at .06/per. I was walking out when I noticed it, and went up to customer service to tell them. This guy standing there (older fellow) started carrying on about my honesty, and started telling people what a good person I was, and just went nuts. They let me keep the sausages for that price, sent a clerk to fix the problem, and I felt great (though embarassed) for having been so honest.
(end ramble)
There's my rambling story for the night, anyway. :)
I don't think that the OP can really be blamed if he keeps it, honestly. I don't think that it is the same as the bank/cashier/etc accidentally giving you $100 when you should only get $10. That's directly taking something that you know is wrong, and people will have to suffer consequences for it. They get in trouble if they have a short drawer. But you can't be sure that the store didn't mean to sell that for $2. It really does look like $2 on the back....
That's why I'd call and discuss it with the owner. :)
Message edited by author 2006-03-27 22:03:04. |
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03/27/2006 10:01:20 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Cyndane:
I would probably call the place, speak with the owner about it, and see what he had to say about it. I'd go with whatever he wanted to do about it.
I personally could not just keep it and not at least attempt to make it right.
I was grocery shopping recently and they had a sale on my favorite sausage, usually $4/per and they were marked down for $1/per. I chose like 6 packs or something. When they were scanned, they came up at .06/per. I was walking out when I noticed it, and went up to customer service to tell them. This guy standing there (older fellow) started carrying on about my honesty, and started telling people what a good person I was, and just went nuts. They let me keep the sausages for that price, sent a clerk to fix the problem, and I felt great (though embarassed) for having been so honest.
There's my rambling story for the night, anyway. :) |
They had to do that by law. Department of weights and measures fine for incorrectly scanning items would of been way more than the price of that sausage. ;o)
Message edited by author 2006-03-27 22:01:51.
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03/27/2006 10:02:42 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Photography isn't a commodity like baseball cards...nor should it be considered like this. |
I understand that but the issue is still the same. Because of your negative view on baseball card dealers you find justification for keeping the card. My point is one can easily hold a similar justification for stealing and using photos that do not belong to them. By your logic you should be fine with that.
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
and he didn't steal the card, be bought it for the price they wanted. |
Agreed, however I get the impression from your earlier posts that even if it were your opinion wouldn't change. Am I wrong? |
I wouldn't steal it, but when a good deal presents itself, I take full advantage. :D
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03/27/2006 10:05:07 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
They had to do that by law. Department of weights and measures fine for incorrectly scanning items would of been way more than the price of that sausage. ;o) |
They get fined for incorrectly scanned items? |
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03/27/2006 10:07:51 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Cyndane:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
They had to do that by law. Department of weights and measures fine for incorrectly scanning items would of been way more than the price of that sausage. ;o) |
They get fined for incorrectly scanned items? |
Yes. SO if they can take care of it before the get audited they are very happy. So you did them 2 favors! ;o)
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03/27/2006 10:08:10 PM · #66 |
| NO DEAL!!! Wait, I misread the thread title... |
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03/27/2006 10:11:41 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Originally posted by Cyndane:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
They had to do that by law. Department of weights and measures fine for incorrectly scanning items would of been way more than the price of that sausage. ;o) |
They get fined for incorrectly scanned items? |
Yes. SO if they can take care of it before the get audited they are very happy. So you did them 2 favors! ;o) |
I believe they only fail the audit if at least one OVERCHARGE is found. |
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03/27/2006 10:16:03 PM · #68 |
Maybe it was fate or serendipity (sp?)... The guy that sold the baseball card probably had been skimming the till for quite some time... so he sold the baseball card then he got fired, Or better yet his boss told him he was a lazy ass so he sold the $200.00 baseball card for a $1.00 then quit with a big "FU" out the door... Maybe your supposed to buy this lens for $120.00... maybe just maybe...
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03/27/2006 10:31:44 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Qwest30:
Maybe it was fate or serendipity (sp?)... The guy that sold the baseball card probably had been skimming the till for quite some time... so he sold the baseball card then he got fired, Or better yet his boss told him he was a lazy ass so he sold the $200.00 baseball card for a $1.00 then quit with a big "FU" out the door... Maybe your supposed to buy this lens for $120.00... maybe just maybe... |
Or... maybe the clerk is a young guy who's trying to work there and support his new wife and baby, and is super honest and a good employee, but the owner's a jerk and fired him for the mistake... and won't give him a good reference now, so the guy is going to have to pound the pavement and hope for a job that'll cover the rent and provide insurance for his family...
Or... the clerk is working his first job right out of college, and needed a push to get him to go find a good, solid job based on his degree... and getting fired would be the best thing that actually could have happened.
Just a few more 'maybe' scenarios... :D |
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03/27/2006 10:31:44 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Qwest30:
Maybe it was fate or serendipity (sp?)... The guy that sold the baseball card probably had been skimming the till for quite some time... so he sold the baseball card then he got fired, Or better yet his boss told him he was a lazy ass so he sold the $200.00 baseball card for a $1.00 then quit with a big "FU" out the door... Maybe your supposed to buy this lens for $120.00... maybe just maybe... |
Your not talking about serendipity here, your giving examples of rationalization.
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03/27/2006 11:41:31 PM · #71 |
| I still want to know what happened and I'm still interested in the fact that I couldn't really find an Alex Smith rookie card on ebay for nearly that much money. Which card exactly are we talking about? |
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03/28/2006 08:18:53 AM · #72 |
Like I've said before...this example is exactly the same as running a stop sign and not telling on yourself to the cops. There is absolutely no difference.
And another similar situation:
You walk into a yard sale. You see a sweet little shiny 80-200 f/2.8 sitting there. Or a nice new canon 20d. The person running the garage sale says they are old, and the owner passed away, so they want $20 for the item....you just got a heck of a deal. You didn't steal anything. You payed what the person in charge was asking you for it.
I just wish everyone would stop trying to be so 'morally' correct. Every single person that has responded with how 'wrong' it is to keep the card for $2.00 -- when it's just a piece of cardboard anyway sins in so many ways every single day it's probably not even funny.
I'm sure Jesus, or your god, whoever that may be, cares more about other things than underpaying for a piece of cardboard. If you want to be more 'correct' in your ways, stop drinking, stop smoking, stop poisoning your body, stop swearing, don't lie, don't 'worship' or lust for the latest, greatest camera equipment, don't want what your neighbor has. But for goodness sake, if you get a good deal on a piece of cardboard, take the deal.
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Besides that, what a baseball card is worth is totally subjective. It's based on what people are willing to pay. That card is probably over-priced as it is at $200.
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03/28/2006 09:40:37 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Like I've said before...this example is exactly the same as running a stop sign and not telling on yourself to the cops. There is absolutely no difference.
And another similar situation:
You walk into a yard sale. You see a sweet little shiny 80-200 f/2.8 sitting there. Or a nice new canon 20d. The person running the garage sale says they are old, and the owner passed away, so they want $20 for the item....you just got a heck of a deal. You didn't steal anything. You payed what the person in charge was asking you for it.
I just wish everyone would stop trying to be so 'morally' correct. Every single person that has responded with how 'wrong' it is to keep the card for $2.00 -- when it's just a piece of cardboard anyway sins in so many ways every single day it's probably not even funny.
I'm sure Jesus, or your god, whoever that may be, cares more about other things than underpaying for a piece of cardboard. If you want to be more 'correct' in your ways, stop drinking, stop smoking, stop poisoning your body, stop swearing, don't lie, don't 'worship' or lust for the latest, greatest camera equipment, don't want what your neighbor has. But for goodness sake, if you get a good deal on a piece of cardboard, take the deal.
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Besides that, what a baseball card is worth is totally subjective. It's based on what people are willing to pay. That card is probably over-priced as it is at $200. |
The yard sale, like some of the examples by others, is totally different. The yard sale person marked the lens to get rid of it, he very well may have known the real value but didn't care. The person at the store read the price wrong. The customer did NOT steal the card as he paid what they offered BUT he should talk to the store and let them know what he thinks happened. If they say "we told you $1.00, you paid $1.00 it's yours" then all is good. I doubt legally that they really could make you pay for it again if you confront them BUT you have to deal with your own conscience and live with it.
I too have been quoted wrong prices and had situations like this. Heck when ordering prints from WalMart.com I ran into errors and had to cancel the order (twice) well they had never charged my card since they never did the prints but they credited my card in the amount of the prints (so I got reimbursed for charges I never got charged). I couldn't have this on my consience so I called them and once they finally understood what happened they said "oh well". They said there was no way to charge me for nothing or pull back the credit so my honesty was appreciated but I would get to keep the 20 something dollar credit. And the next week I got coupons in the mail from them for free photo developing. I made out like crazy and my consience was clean. And on the other hand long before that, I purchased a $80 smartmedia card from Target when they were brand new for $10 because the clerk couldn't find a price and someone told him they were discontinued and give it to me for $10. I knew it was more cause I had researched them and had been wanting them for a long time so yes I stole from them, whether they are a large company or a mom and pop doesn't make that fact go away, it is something I have to deal with and live with in my mind.
Originally posted by deapee:
I just wish everyone would stop trying to be so 'morally' correct. Every single person that has responded with how 'wrong' it is to keep the card for $2.00 -- when it's just a piece of cardboard anyway |
---so just because it is a piece of cardboard it's ok to steal?
I do however agree that there are other "sins" that people need to take care of but there is no lesser sin and just because it is cardboard doesn't make it any less important. It may be cardboard in the customer's hand but it may also be food in the seller's child's mouth.
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03/28/2006 09:47:38 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Like I've said before...this example is exactly the same as running a stop sign and not telling on yourself to the cops. There is absolutely no difference.
And another similar situation:
You walk into a yard sale. You see a sweet little shiny 80-200 f/2.8 sitting there. Or a nice new canon 20d. The person running the garage sale says they are old, and the owner passed away, so they want $20 for the item....you just got a heck of a deal. You didn't steal anything. You payed what the person in charge was asking you for it.
I just wish everyone would stop trying to be so 'morally' correct. Every single person that has responded with how 'wrong' it is to keep the card for $2.00 -- when it's just a piece of cardboard anyway sins in so many ways every single day it's probably not even funny.
I'm sure Jesus, or your god, whoever that may be, cares more about other things than underpaying for a piece of cardboard. If you want to be more 'correct' in your ways, stop drinking, stop smoking, stop poisoning your body, stop swearing, don't lie, don't 'worship' or lust for the latest, greatest camera equipment, don't want what your neighbor has. But for goodness sake, if you get a good deal on a piece of cardboard, take the deal.
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Besides that, what a baseball card is worth is totally subjective. It's based on what people are willing to pay. That card is probably over-priced as it is at $200. |
A) The cop analogy is not "exactly" the same. The police department does not "lose" money because you didn't turn yourself in for running a stop sign. If everyone who made such a mistake turned themselves in, the police might actually lose by taking all that time to fill out paperwork for stop sign runners when they could be making more money by catching DUIs or setting up speed traps. The income from a ticket is not an inventory item that has been specifically purchased for resale.
B) The items in yard sales are not generally purchased by licensed, tax paying business owners who collect sales tax. They are usually personal items from which the seller has, presumably, extracted the value through use.
C) Your list of "sins" don't apply to me, because I do not practice religion. My sense of right and wrong is based solely on empathy; meaning that I try to put myself in the other person's position when determining whether or not my actions are decent. I make just as many mistakes as anyone, and spend a good deal of time trying to rectify them; which is exactly what I would have done had I purchased a card marked $200.00 for $2.00.
D) The pricing structure and business practices of card retailers is TOTALLY irrelevant to this discussion. That pathetic justification could be applied to so many items that it would take me all day to list them. Diamonds are nothing more than pieces of rock that have been assigned a random value. You have no way of knowing how much that shop-owner paid for that card, how much he loses to theft nor how much his overhead is. The rationalization that "it's only cardboard" is nothing more than saying "It's OK to steal because I don't like their way of doing business".
E) What it all boils down to is that some of us find hurting others acceptable and some don't. And continuing this thread until the end of time will never change that. |
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03/28/2006 11:08:05 AM · #75 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Like I've said before...this example is exactly the same as running a stop sign and not telling on yourself to the cops. There is absolutely no difference.
And another similar situation:
You walk into a yard sale. You see a sweet little shiny 80-200 f/2.8 sitting there. Or a nice new canon 20d. The person running the garage sale says they are old, and the owner passed away, so they want $20 for the item....you just got a heck of a deal. You didn't steal anything. You payed what the person in charge was asking you for it.
I just wish everyone would stop trying to be so 'morally' correct. Every single person that has responded with how 'wrong' it is to keep the card for $2.00 -- when it's just a piece of cardboard anyway sins in so many ways every single day it's probably not even funny.
I'm sure Jesus, or your god, whoever that may be, cares more about other things than underpaying for a piece of cardboard. If you want to be more 'correct' in your ways, stop drinking, stop smoking, stop poisoning your body, stop swearing, don't lie, don't 'worship' or lust for the latest, greatest camera equipment, don't want what your neighbor has. But for goodness sake, if you get a good deal on a piece of cardboard, take the deal.
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Besides that, what a baseball card is worth is totally subjective. It's based on what people are willing to pay. That card is probably over-priced as it is at $200. |
Deepee,
You sure do a lot of rationalization. (It's ok to steal because it's over-priced, etc.) It's very telling. It's possible to rationalize anything - criminals do it all the time. Just because you can fool yourself into thinking that stealing (or whatever else) is ok, doesn't mean you can fool others.
I actually wish MORE people would try to be morally correct.
As for MY religion, which is called Christianity, a sin is a sin, regardless - and Jesus (whom you mentioned) cares about all of them equally. I know because I read it in a book called the Holy Bible. You can make assumptions about yourself, but you shouldn't try making assumptions about things you clearly don't know much about.
Message edited by author 2006-03-28 11:11:27. |
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