Would something like this be 'low key?'

03/18/2006 10:39:04 AM · #1

Just walking about yesterday morning and the result of this mimage kind of felt low key, but I was wondering what others thought. I've left it as basic editing for now, just cuz I'm not going to be entering that challenge, but thought I'd like to see what others thought of its Meet's the challenge/DNMC potential.

Thanks for any feedback you may have.

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

03/18/2006 10:45:17 AM · #2

It personally doesn't feel low-key to me. The lighting, otheer than a few harsh shadows is rather flat. Also, it is dominated by mid-tone areas rather than dark areas.

My general feeling for this is that it is under-exposed rather than low key.

Message edited by author 2006-03-19 16:13:26.

ralph

Nikon Z9

03/18/2006 10:47:43 AM · #3

looks more mid tone

the way i undetstand low key is an image that is predominantly left on a histogram (mostly dark) with some hilights to show definition or shape of the subject
"with the background should be 2 stops less than the subject"

though i imagine my definition is not the only one

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

03/18/2006 10:57:26 AM · #4

no, this is just too dark. Low key is, if you have the full tonal range from black to (almost) white including midtones, but most of the picture is in the dark half (preferrably very dark), so the highlights and midtones really stand out

03/18/2006 11:01:41 AM · #5

Thanx guys for the clarification. I think I get it now.

03/18/2006 11:07:09 AM · #6

JD, you should really be thinking about shape, which is what low-key excels at. Use lighting (usually a single source) to highlight the shape of the subject.

Hope that helps.

03/19/2006 03:44:38 PM · #7

So, just wondering if this is a better attempt:

03/19/2006 03:46:42 PM · #8

Originally posted by Arcanist:

So, just wondering if this is a better attempt:

Yes, that is Low-key.

Artifacts

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/19/2006 03:55:50 PM · #9

Originally posted by Arcanist:

Low key are images are dominated by darker tones and not by highlights. This image absolutely IS low key.

You want to be careful that any highlights you might have in a "low key" image do not take over the composition. As long as that is true then you have a "good" low key image.

The trick, of course, is to have dark tones dominate without looking "flat". Basically it is a similar problem a lot of people have with B&W where they do not have a full range of tones.

Message edited by author 2006-03-19 15:56:52.

03/19/2006 04:09:47 PM · #10

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by Arcanist:

Low key are images are dominated by darker tones and not by highlights. This image absolutely IS low key.

If I were looking at the histogram only for this image (and not the image itself) I'd agree with you.

BUT, low-key is lighting technique, not simply just making an under-exposed flat image or an image post-processed to look dark.

This image is dominated by flat mid-tones with harsh shadows and NO areas of highlight or lighting interest.

EDIT TO SAY: Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh about the image, I'm just showing WHY it isn't low key.

Message edited by author 2006-03-19 16:11:58.

Artifacts

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/19/2006 05:41:30 PM · #11

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by Arcanist:

Low key are images dominated by darker tones and not by highlights. This image absolutely IS low key.

If I were looking at the histogram only for this image (and not the image itself) I'd agree with you.

BUT, low-key is lighting technique, not simply just making an under-exposed flat image or an image post-processed to look dark.

This image is dominated by flat mid-tones with harsh shadows and NO areas of highlight or lighting interest.

EDIT TO SAY: Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh about the image, I'm just showing WHY it isn't low key.

Voters that lower scores for failing to "meeting the challenge" need to understand what low key is before voting.

From a pure educational standpoint regarding what is and is not "low key" then a closer examination of this image is useful.

If the question here is... Does this image "meet the challenge" for low key then the answer is "yes". It fits the definition amazingly well.

To prove it all you have to do is open it in your favorite image editing software and look at the histogram. A histogram that shows more weight at the left of the graph represents a dark image and, by definition, is low-key. This image has a near perfect "low key" histogram.

Further, if you try setting a black point in this image you will see that its histogram does not budge at all and remains nicely weighted on the left. That means it HAS to have a full range of dark tones starting from pure black. The histogram unequivocably shows that this image is low key.

Is this image dominated by "flat mid-tones" as suggested above? Again, look at the histogram. To be "flat" and dominated by midtones it would have to peak in the middle of the histogram and drop off rapidly at both ends. This is not the case with this image. It has three peaks and each is to the left of the midtone point. Again, that proves it pure "low key".

The question whether you would chose to submit this particular image for low key is a separate question all together. The decision to submit one like it should be based on the compositional strength or other aspects of the image but not on whether it meets the challenge. If anything it should be voted higher for meeting the challenge very well.

Please do not vote down images like this one based on the mistaken belief that they do not meet the challenge. They do. Check histograms if there is a question in your mind.

If you do not fully understand what low key means then either do not vote the challenge or don't lower your scores because of it until you know for sure.

Message edited by author 2006-03-19 17:44:26.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

03/19/2006 07:15:42 PM · #12

Originally posted by stdavidson:

If you do not fully understand what low key means then either do not vote the challenge or don't lower your scores because of it until you know for sure.

By your definition, a shot of a small, luminous, white rose blossom centered in a large field of pure black would be "low key"; the histogram would "prove it". It's not that simple.

"Low key", for what it's worth, is a term often used in the movie industry to describe a certain type of lighting: "A style of lighting emphasizing diffused shadows and atmospheric pools of light. Often used in mysteries, thrillers, and films noir."

I think this is what most people are expecting to see, "atmospheric lighting". Who's to call them wrong? Here's an example of very cinematic, low-key work:

Robt.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/19/2006 08:03:31 PM · #13

A very interesting and enlightening discussion that we have going here, thank you all for posting and commenting on the differences and not couching your commentary.

I would rather someone be completely honest about their reactions and opinions than try to make something sound better than it is. The only way to really learn what the bell-curve populace here considers good photography, meets the challenge, etc, is to develop a thicker skin and let fly all the raw feelings about images like these two.

I come away so far with the idea that although the first image: Conduits is technically a low-key image, it may be perceived by many as a DNMC and somewhat flat, despite its shadows and highlights, whereas the Santas is more the 'traditional' image that people will accept as MTC.

Brent_Ward

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L USM

03/19/2006 08:07:23 PM · #14

This could be considered low-key

But not as low-key as if I shot it low-key on purpose.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

03/19/2006 08:20:40 PM · #15

I'm definitly planning to vote this one while in a dark room. :-)

Lots of interesting information. I had a shot ready to go, but reshot it this afternoon. Haven't had a chance to edit it yet, but am looking forward to the challenge!

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

03/19/2006 08:33:40 PM · #16

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

This could be considered low-key

But not as low-key as if I shot it low-key on purpose.

This and Joey's photo that was used as an example is what I also considered low key but in an earlier thread I was told otherwise. As a voter, photos like these are going to get high marks from me. There needs to be some interesting highlights set in a dark environment for it to work.

ETA: I also meant to say I agree with stdavidson's example qualifying as a low key image.

Message edited by author 2006-03-19 20:36:56.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

03/19/2006 08:37:29 PM · #17

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
This could be considered low-key

But not as low-key as if I shot it low-key on purpose.

This and Joey's photo that was used as an example is what I also considered low key but in an earlier thread I was told otherwise. As a voter, photos like these are going to get high marks from me. There needs to be some interesting highlights set in a dark environment for it to work.

Based on what I read in the description challenge, I don't see how this could be considered 'Low Key'.

Challenge Description: "Low key describes a mostly dark image, with few highlights. Photograph a shot that's low key this week."

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

03/19/2006 08:54:57 PM · #18

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
This could be considered low-key

But not as low-key as if I shot it low-key on purpose.

This and Joey's photo that was used as an example is what I also considered low key but in an earlier thread I was told otherwise. As a voter, photos like these are going to get high marks from me. There needs to be some interesting highlights set in a dark environment for it to work.

Based on what I read in the description challenge, I don't see how this could be considered 'Low Key'.

Challenge Description: "Low key describes a mostly dark image, with few highlights. Photograph a shot that's low key this week."

There are more dark pixels in that image than light ones. No?

Message edited by author 2006-03-19 20:55:20.

03/19/2006 09:05:27 PM · #19

Originally posted by glad2badad:

The challenge description is not entirely accurate as to what low-key is. Low-key is purely a lighting technique. It's key properties is that it DOES range mostly in the lower portions of the histogram.

BUT, the lighting does have purpose. Mostly the purpose is to emphasize shape.

Low-key should have highlights in the upper end of the histogram/ These are the highlights that emphasize shape.

Also, low-key should have a continuous range of midtones. We are NOT talking high-contast.

Both High and Low Key share one property. They are both very even in tonal range. The differnece is the mode (statistical term) for that tonal range.

High or Low key is not High or low contrast.

As with high-key, contrast should be restricted: with some highlights. The normal empahsis should emphasize the overall dark tones rather than diminish them. The overall tones should be inherently dark. Low-key very much depends on the right choice of the subject and the right choice of lighting.

Message edited by author 2006-03-19 21:15:09.

thehitter

03/19/2006 09:15:33 PM · #20

i'll bet that people will go by the challenge description, not the true definition, in voting.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

03/19/2006 09:16:58 PM · #21

Originally posted by thehitter:

i'll bet that people will go by the challenge description, not the true definition, in voting.

LOL, I have prepared for that too... but since this is an educational site as much as a challenge site, I think the proper description SHOULD be out there.

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

03/19/2006 09:40:46 PM · #22

enough debating.
I'm submitting a RAW capture with my lens cap on.

dolphnz8

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

03/19/2006 09:42:20 PM · #23

Originally posted by crayon:

enough debating.
I'm submitting a RAW capture with my lens cap on.

ROFLMAO

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

03/19/2006 09:46:06 PM · #24

Originally posted by thehitter:

i'll bet that people will go by the challenge description, not the true definition, in voting.

Actually, history shows us the voters tend to vote on the TOPIC, not its description. So the voters will each vote according to their concept of what "low key" is. Just as well, considering the description is a very limited depiction of low key, just one potential sort of low key image.

Fotomann gave a very good synopsis of another sort of low key image.

Earlier in this thread I showed what low key means to a cinematographer.

There are many ways to skin this cat...

R.