Access to web logs - DPChallenge Forums

03/14/2006 07:53:20 AM · #1

I've started looking at my web logs for my website, and have found knowing who is linking to my images to be very interesting and quite useful.
Many of us at DPC are protective about our images, and it is really good to know where they're being used.
I would really like to know who is linking directly to my images at DPChallenge, especially without my knowledge/permission. Any chance of seeing who is linking to them on a regular basis?

riot

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Helios 40-1 85mm f/1.5

03/14/2006 09:30:34 AM · #2

Not likely that a site like this would release logs, even a small portion pertaining just to individuals' photographs. Far too much room for abuse. It could also be argued (based on the TOS) that it's not up to you to grant or deny permission for people to hotlink shots on DPC, it's only D&L's business, and releasing this sort of info would undermine that.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/14/2006 09:36:19 AM · #3

What abuse could there be if we could see who was linking to our own photos only?
I think you'll find that as I own the copyright to my photos, I can damn well say who can link to my shots!
Edit: I've read the TOS very carefully. I don't see how knowledge of abuse of my photos and taking action would undermine D&L.

Message edited by author 2006-03-14 09:42:57.

riot

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Helios 40-1 85mm f/1.5

03/14/2006 09:51:06 AM · #4

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

What abuse could there be if we could see who was linking to our own photos only?

Well for a start, in the registered user agreement, 5.6, it states "You shall not deep link to any image on the Website." The data you are asking for would be proof of such deep linking, commonplace as it is - at the very least it would be evidence that nothing is being done when the user agreement is broken by members. In practice it would be impossible for D&L or the SC to prevent all hotlinking, but making this data available to users could spark off a witchhunt mentality among members.

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

I think you'll find that as I own the copyright to my photos, I can damn well say who can link to my shots!

Copyright, yes. However, when you upload an image to DPC, you have given the website the right to distribute your images as it sees fit - that includes choosing how these images may or may not be displayed.
Edit:
6.2 You hereby grant DPChallenge.com a nonexclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any rights you have in the Member Information and Media, and otherwise to make use of the Member Information and Media (including publishing, disseminating, broadcasting, manipulating, reproducing, editing, translating, performing, modifying, or displaying any part of the Member Information) and/or Media alone or as part of other work in any form, media, or technology whether now new known or hereafter developed, to enable DPChallenge.com to continue the specific operation or marketing of the site.

Message edited by author 2006-03-14 09:53:15.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

03/14/2006 10:12:44 AM · #5

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

Edit: I've read the TOS very carefully. I don't see how knowledge of abuse of my photos and taking action would undermine D&L.

My personal opinion (and I'm not speaking on behalf of D/L or the Site Council here) is that releasing this type of information would violate the DPChallenge Privacy Policy.

~Terry

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/14/2006 10:23:30 AM · #6

The magic words in 6.2 of the TOS are 'to enable DPChallenge.com to continue the specific operation or marketing of the site.'
That still means I own the copyright, and I still don't see what in the TOS allows sites other than DPC to use my images in any way they see fit.
And perhaps it is a good thing for the photo community if there is more awareness of images being used elsewhere by deep linking without photographers' permission.
The privacy policy would be a more understandable obstacle to this, but all I see covered are use of cookies and members' info. Nothing about information that can be gathered from weblogs. If the privacy policy is to be believed, DPC doesn't even have any weblogs.

riot

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Helios 40-1 85mm f/1.5

03/14/2006 10:30:41 AM · #7

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

Of course you still own the copyright, as i said above. However, you're ignoring the part that says "nonexclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any rights you have..." Think about that for a moment. Those multiple tiers may be the sites that hotlink your images. DPC may not be giving them permission to do that, but that's DPC's business - as far as you're concerned, your images are just being sublicensed. And the "irrevocable" part suggests you cannot demand it be stopped.

My point is that while hotlinking may well be undesirable for DPC, and for you, the user agreement takes the matter out of your hands. To then empower users to carry out their own vigilante actions against people hotlinking to DPC would only cause more problems - especially if the hotlinkers refused to remove their links, and you'd have to run crying to daddy (D&L) because only they can put a stop to it.

goc

Apple iPhone 4

03/14/2006 10:31:27 AM · #8

hey ...
you can always experiment with google :-)
try entering this in search "link: //www.dpchallenge.com" you'll see what i mean

peace

Message edited by author 2006-03-14 10:32:03.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

03/14/2006 10:39:16 AM · #9

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

The type of information typically collected in a weblog is covered in the Cookies section. It's probably not technically correct that this type of information is collected via cookies (though cookies are used to tie a user to a session), that section of the policy does cover our tracking of pages viewed (if any, I don't have access to those logs myself).

With that said, please know that because we are photographers too, we have little patience for copyright infringement. Whenever we discover (or are told about) participants' images stolen from DPChallenge, we inform the user or users affected and, if appropriate, attempt to get the content removed and/or the offending site shut down.

If you become aware of (or have reason to suspect) image theft, please contact us (via the contact page under the help menu) and we'll do whatever we can to investigate.

~Terry

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/14/2006 10:48:00 AM · #10

Originally posted by riot:

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
The magic words in 6.2 of the TOS are 'to enable DPChallenge.com to continue the specific operation or marketing of the site.'
That still means I own the copyright, and I still don't see what in the TOS allows sites other than DPC to use my images in any way they see fit.

Of course you still own the copyright, as i said above. However, you're ignoring the part that says "nonexclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any rights you have..." Think about that for a moment. Those multiple tiers may be the sites that hotlink your images. DPC may not be giving them permission to do that, but that's DPC's business - as far as you're concerned, your images are just being sublicensed. And the "irrevocable" part suggests you cannot demand it be stopped.

My point is that while hotlinking may well be undesirable for DPC, and for you, the user agreement takes the matter out of your hands. To then empower users to carry out their own vigilante actions against people hotlinking to DPC would only cause more problems - especially if the hotlinkers refused to remove their links, and you'd have to run crying to daddy (D&L) because only they can put a stop to it.

BobsterLobster is correct about 6.2. The phrase he quoted was added to restict DPChallenge's rights to your images to what is needed to operate the site. Adding this means, for example, that DPChallenge can't legally go behind your back and sell your challenge entries to a screensaver site or take your printable files and submit them to a stock site.

~Terry

joebok

Fujifilm X100F

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED

03/14/2006 10:50:50 AM · #11

Originally posted by gooc:

hey ...
you can always experiment with google :-)
try entering this in search "link: //www.dpchallenge.com" you'll see what i mean

peace

I would think this would be a better approach to finding pages/sites that are linking to the photos - the DPC logs will just show the IP addresses of the people that view the photo. I suppose that under the right circumstances that could lead you to the site that had the link - but I'd try google first.

03/14/2006 12:38:29 PM · #12

There are a lot of photos on DPChallenge... running a search for pages that link to DPChallenge isn't exactly useful. It won't work for specific images.
Yes, I can't *force* D&L to let me see the logs. That's why I posted this in 'Web Site Suggestions' and not 'Web Site Demands'. Nonetheless I personally believe this would be a useful function. Not just to stop people using my images, but to see potential clients as well.
I've found the ability to see who has hotlinked to my images on my own webserver to be very useful and I'd like to see it here as well.
That is all.

03/14/2006 12:39:39 PM · #13

Originally posted by joebok:

Originally posted by gooc:
hey ...
you can always experiment with google :-)
try entering this in search "link: //www.dpchallenge.com" you'll see what i mean

peace

I would think this would be a better approach to finding pages/sites that are linking to the photos - the DPC logs will just show the IP addresses of the people that view the photo. I suppose that under the right circumstances that could lead you to the site that had the link - but I'd try google first.

Edit: the logs also show the address of the website that linked to the photos. Not just the IP address. Quite handy.

Message edited by author 2006-03-14 12:40:24.

fotomann_forever

03/14/2006 12:45:53 PM · #14

Would be quite a programming task to write a script to parse the acces logs and assign those logs to individual photos and.or photographers. Also, such script would require significant resources to do such parsing.

I'm sure DPC gets several tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands hits per day. Access logs would be huge. Parsing such raw data and assigning individual elements would be quite processor intensive.