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03/08/2006 03:08:27 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Barbed wire carries powerful emotional and political connotations, symbolizing control, oppression, hopelessness, greed, etc. |
You decidedly left out punishment, consequences, protection, public safety, security, etc. ;-) |
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03/08/2006 03:13:02 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Barbed wire carries powerful emotional and political connotations, symbolizing control, oppression, hopelessness, greed, etc. |
You decidedly left out punishment, consequences, protection, public safety, security, etc. ;-) |
I decidedly included "etc." since I didn't have time to be comprehensive, but wanted only to cite enough specific examples that people would grasp the overall concept.
Feel free to continue the list though! |
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03/08/2006 03:14:06 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by ShutterPug:
Originally posted by rswank:
I'm sorry but cat pics, baby pics et al get an automatic downgrade.
They are in the same class as a snapshot.
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Maybe your shots of cats and baby pics are nothing more than snaps, but I've seen some really well done pet portraits and baby portraits here. Before you go voting them down, why not see if you're good ebihgh to duplicate the shot in pose, technicals, lighting - the whole shabang. To downgrade them all due to subject matter doesn't say much for your voting style. Like Brad said - you obviously don't know how to judge impartially. |
If you read one sentence further you would have noticed the following:
"The disclaimer is that these overdone subjects can score high if the other elements of the vote warrant it - emotion, composition, perspective etc, if the photo speaks to me. "
And what does my view on originality have to do with impartiality?
Originality is a criteria in the way I vote.
In no way did I mean to imply that if I vote a pic down because I don't like the subject, it's the originality.
If the baby pic happens to have great lighting (rarely), or an expression of emotion beautifully captured (other than typical baby gaze), or a creative composition then the fact that the subject is of baby is irrelevant in the way I vote.
But if the pic has few redeeming photographic qualities then I do impose a penalty - I guess that makes it a snapshot then as those get penalized similarly.
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03/08/2006 03:21:30 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I decidedly included "etc." since I didn't have time to be comprehensive, but wanted only to cite enough specific examples that people would grasp the overall concept. |
Yeah, I saw that response coming. ;-) I just found it amusing (but not surprising) which ones you did include. :) Just illustrates how different people see different things in the same image. Again, not surprising, just interesting. |
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03/08/2006 03:21:39 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by rswank:
As to the suggestion that "it isn't really for us as individuals to decide what is original and what isn't". That makes absolutely no sense to me.
Who decides then?
Yes, we can differ on opinion and degree but you say we shouldn't consider originality when evaluating a piece of art or in our case when voting on one?
I'm sorry but cat pics, baby pics et al get an automatic downgrade.
They are in the same class as a snapshot.
The disclaimer is that these overdone subjects can score high if the other elements of the vote warrant it - emotion, compostition, perspective etc, if the photo speaks to me. |
I'll take your comments with a grain of salt until I see some more "emotion, composition, perspective, etc." in your own work. I don't think you have enough experience to say the things you are saying. Perhaps after you have contributed more to the DPC community, your comments will be better received.
Also, you must be one of those voters that hands out lots of 1's. Your average vote is 3.5507! Your one and only challenge didn't even score above the 20th percentile!! Why don't you direct your high standards and harsh criticisms towards your own work!!
You may be a really nice guy, and I'm glad to see you participating. My intentions are not to attack you, but to show you that you may be a littlle out of line with your comments. |
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03/08/2006 03:24:23 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by KiwiPix:
Originally posted by rswank:
Now if only someone would do the "heart-shadow-in-a-book" out of a loop of barbed wire, talk about originality! |
Then there's ... the cat ... we have to have a cat. And well, the cat wrapped in barbed wire looking at the heart in the book would have to be sitting by the water with the sunset behind and the baby could just be sleeping - as long as its in shot.
Brett |
You leave my sunsets ALONE, you hear me? They are an ART form, dammit :-)
You can have my sunsets when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...
R.
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03/08/2006 03:27:19 PM · #32 |
And leave the damn landscapes alone too, or I hope Ansel Adams comes back to life and kicks your a**.
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03/08/2006 05:26:58 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by persimon:
I'll take your comments with a grain of salt until I see some more "emotion, composition, perspective, etc." in your own work. I don't think you have enough experience to say the things you are saying. Perhaps after you have contributed more to the DPC community, your comments will be better received.
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Do you have to be a Paul Bocuse award winning chef in order to judge the success of a meal?
Do you need an MFA to judge basic elements of a photograph?
Must you successfully capture a tender moment of emotion before being able to recognize it or the lack thereof?
Originally posted by persimon:
Also, you must be one of those voters that hands out lots of 1's. Your average vote is 3.5507! Your one and only challenge didn't even score above the 20th percentile!! Why don't you direct your high standards and harsh criticisms towards your own work!!
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I have handed out many 2's and 1's on photos that obviously do not meet the challenge topic. I gave many 1's for the color photos in Duotones II.
I am harsh in that regard but it is my prerogative.
If you are on topic you automatically get a 2.
An on topic snapshot gets a 2 or a 3.
Only a couple of 9's and 10's (if that) with the majority being 4's.
As far as your suggestion of directing my "high standards and harsh criticisms towards your own work", I do.
Originally posted by persimon:
You may be a really nice guy, and I'm glad to see you participating. My intentions are not to attack you, but to show you that you may be a littlle out of line with your comments. |
Golly, thanks.
Seriously though, thanks for the bluntness, it is sorely lacking these days but I fail to see how I am out of line in anything I've said.
I've got thick skin and rarely take things personally unless it is an obvious cheap shot in which case I say "eff 'em".
It's funny, this post was just an exasperation as to the unoriginal direction it seems things are going since I've been primarily a lurker for the past year or so.
Cheers!
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03/08/2006 05:48:29 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by BradP:
[quote=rswank]
Whatever you do, do NOT look in here. |
Shame on you Brad.... You took advantage of my inherent weakness (curiousity) and exposed me to ........gasp..... dare I say it "Pussy".
Now I am hooked... and it is you........BradP that made me so. I hope you are happy.
Ray |
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03/08/2006 06:25:20 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by rswank:
If you are on topic you automatically get a 2.
An on topic snapshot gets a 2 or a 3.
Only a couple of 9's and 10's (if that) with the majority being 4's.
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Ouch!
On-topic - meets the challenge - average - not great, not bad.
Average is 5.5 on a 1 to 10 scale,not a 2 or 3 though.
FWIW, I use a system not unlike many others here.
Go through them, get first impression and sort into 4's, 5's 6's & 7's
Doesn't meet the challenge, 2(rarely) or 3, no higher.
Meets the challenge, low quality range, starts at 4
Meets the challenge, snapshot type pic, starts at 5
Meets the challenge, better than a snapshot, starts at 6
Meets the challenge, better than a snapshot, effort in composition & light starts at 7
Second run-through, go back and sort the 6's & 7's and grade on a curve of sorts. Bump many up, some at 8, some at 9, and even a fair number of 10's if they really are amazing. 4's get second look to be fair, and adjust as necessary, often commenting along as time permits.
After all have been voted on, I take a third or fourth look at a number of them, re-adjusting scores now that they are sub grouped.
Guess I support those that tried.
Not always easy to find time to go out & about on a photoshoot with kids, jobs, daily life, etc.
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03/08/2006 06:31:58 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by rswank:
It's funny, this post was just an exasperation as to the unoriginal direction it seems things are going since I've been primarily a lurker for the past year or so.Cheers! |
No hard feelings, Mate! I've been a lurker too. Just started seriously entering challenges, selling prints, and posting to forums. I'm glad you can debate without getting mean. Best of luck to you!!
Amy |
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03/08/2006 06:38:17 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Originally posted by rswank:
If you are on topic you automatically get a 2.
An on topic snapshot gets a 2 or a 3.
Only a couple of 9's and 10's (if that) with the majority being 4's.
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Ouch!
On-topic - meets the challenge - average - not great, not bad.
Average is 5.5 on a 1 to 10 scale,not a 2 or 3 though.
FWIW, I use a system not unlike many others here.
Go through them, get first impression and sort into 4's, 5's 6's & 7's
Doesn't meet the challenge, 2(rarely) or 3, no higher.
Meets the challenge, low quality range, starts at 4
Meets the challenge, snapshot type pic, starts at 5
Meets the challenge, better than a snapshot, starts at 6
Meets the challenge, better than a snapshot, effort in composition & light starts at 7
Second run-through, go back and sort the 6's & 7's and grade on a curve of sorts. Bump many up, some at 8, some at 9, and even a fair number of 10's if they really are amazing. 4's get second look to be fair, and adjust as necessary, often commenting along as time permits.
After all have been voted on, I take a third or fourth look at a number of them, re-adjusting scores now that they are sub grouped.
Guess I support those that tried.
Not always easy to find time to go out & about on a photoshoot with kids, jobs, daily life, etc. |
Great system. I too agree that rswank's method is a bit harsh. I am going to try your method of organization. Seems very efficient!! |
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03/08/2006 07:08:08 PM · #38 |
"Ouch!
On-topic - meets the challenge - average - not great, not bad.
Average is 5.5 on a 1 to 10 scale,not a 2 or 3 though. "
I guess it may be harsh but I don't think a snapshot entry is an honest effort. Rather I see it as a last minute need to enter a challenge.
I have adjusted my ratings upward probably an average of a point across the board and have softened a bit realizing some of the horrid shots are honest efforts and do give kudos for that.
I also go back and re-evaluate everything from a cursory glance at the 1's thru 4's and a serious look at the 5's on up.
A 5 or higher on the initial vote is more of a note to myself that I thought that photo deserved more time and have actually bumped an initial 5 or 6 up to a 9.
First impressions fail especially with the sheer numbers you sometimes have to go through - and I don't think it fair to not vote on 100% of the entries.
I also don't read "average" as in the average quality of all the photos in the challenge I am voting.
I think of average less mathematically and more subjectively with "average" carrying a higher standard by virtue of this being a photocentric community - not average as in all the photos on the web.
bleh!
enuff bullshit - more photos, I've got work to do (re: my dismal duotone ranking) |
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03/08/2006 07:21:51 PM · #39 |
My voting system is pretty much in line with BradP's, but I gotta say that my favorite system is Art_ROFLMAO's. It's pretty darn to the point and quite useful. Problem is I vote on 100% of the entries in the challenges I vote and it takes me several days as it is!
Message edited by author 2006-03-08 20:14:53. |
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03/08/2006 07:24:36 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by rswank:
I'm sorry but cat pics, baby pics et al get an automatic downgrade.
They are in the same class as a snapshot. |
Come on, a good photo is a good photo no matter what the subject. Sure, I'll vote down a photo of your cat/baby/dog if its poorly exposed/focused/composed but that applies to every other photo in the challenge as well.
I submitted a baby photo in the comfort challenge and it did quite well. And I fully intend on submitting photos of my baby in the future as often as I can, but only if I feel its a good photo. If I'm awake at dawn it isn't to take advantage of the beautiful light, its to feed a crying baby. |
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