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03/06/2006 02:17:03 PM · #26 |
| I dont know there prices i need to looking to them but i have seen some of there prints and they are good looking prints......there is one close buy to me..... |
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03/06/2006 02:26:05 PM · #27 |
I am a strong opponent of giving them the disc - a couple fo reasons and making money is only one of them.
You have NO control over how they print thhose pics. they get crappy prints and it will be YOUR fault, i can guarantee it.
bride at walmart counter " These pictures are all dark"
$5/hour clerk jerk "It's your pics ma'am. You must have done something wrong when you took them"
bride "but i didn;t take them. Gimme-a-break took 'em. He's from DPC, he's really good. I think it must be you guys"
clerk jerk "see here, (as he pulls out 100 other pictures from his drawer) these are all OK. I printed them an hour ago. It's not our equipment man, it must be gimme-a-minute's fault"
and you're not there to defend yourself...
or they print them on their inkjet printer, which is low on cyan. take the to work and the guy in the next cubicle says 'they're all pink' or some such. Guess who's gonna get the blame? And NOT get the referral?
You might think of yourself as selling a service - taking photos. What you are selling is prints - the thing the customer holds and sees. that's what they (think) they're paying for.
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03/06/2006 02:50:28 PM · #28 |
OK, here's classic pricing strategy (there are others)
You have that $5000 in tools and overhead, per year (gotta buy new equipment, advertising, etc so this figure is not really to far off but it could be $10,000 too). Assuming a home office (no rent - utilties are paid anyway, etc).
You want to go full time:
that is 2,000 hours a year, figure 50% are billed (the other 50% are paperwork, marketing, travel time, reading books, wasted on DPC).
To pay your bills (rent, food, car payment)you need $30,000 a year.
Simple math really, 1000 hours to work, you need to make $35,000 - you need $35 for every billed hour. If your overhead is $10,000 then bill $40.
So a wedding takes 2 houus prep, 2 hours consultation, 8 hours shooting, 20 hours PP/album building, 2 hours delivery - total 34 hours. Hmmm...you are billing 50% of your time so i guess you're gonna work 68 hours a week, only do a wedding every other week or hire help. perpahs get more effecient (my goal is 25 hours for this). So a wedding costs you 34 hours at $35 per, $1190 plus album and prints ($150 perhaps) so you should charge $1340.
And then one can cosider 'perceived value'. A mercedes is a car, so is a chevy, both get your butt around town. one costs a whole lot more. 7/11 gets more money for the same stuff walmart sells. convenience.
if you are getting $500 for a $1300 job, is it you're perceived value? Are you just inconvenient? Or are you just giving it away? there are more worthy charities than a soon to be married couple that can use your generosity.
Message edited by author 2006-03-06 15:00:52.
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03/06/2006 03:05:57 PM · #29 |
| NIce!!! way to put it..... never really looked at it that way.... so basicly im screwed if i want to have them printed cuz i have to use the 500$ i get from them to print there pics...... |
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03/06/2006 03:13:01 PM · #30 |
Prof, I didn't say $150 is good pay for a wedding. Compared to what other photographer's get, it sucks. It is, however, more than what I make showing up at my regular job every damn day, and I have a 4 year degree. I live in an economically depressed area. People think they've hit it big if they land a job making $10 per hour. So, when I say I don't think $150 is that bad for a day's work, you gotta take it in my context. As for all the other stuff you brought up, it's all true, but many people don't understand/care about all that. I'm talking about people who would otherwise think it was okay to put out a bowl of disposable cameras... on the most important day of their lives!
Also, since I work full time as a social worker, making $150 per wedding would give me the little bit of extra $$$ I need to improve my technical knowledge of photography, improve my equipment, etc. |
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03/06/2006 03:15:05 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Givemeashot:
NIce!!! way to put it..... never really looked at it that way.... so basicly im screwed if i want to have them printed cuz i have to use the 500$ i get from them to print there pics...... |
You must work the prints into your price - Got a gr8 idea the other day - Buy disposable cameras (one for each table or geust). Put the price of these cameras with your price - have the geusts take some pictures, collect the cameras and have the photos developed - also make your cut on the photos. I think this will give some very interesting photos and you are bound to cover EVERYTHING at the reception. You got lots of photographers working for you and you cash in.
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03/06/2006 03:35:15 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by marcellieb:
Originally posted by Givemeashot:
NIce!!! way to put it..... never really looked at it that way.... so basicly im screwed if i want to have them printed cuz i have to use the 500$ i get from them to print there pics...... |
You must work the prints into your price - Got a gr8 idea the other day - Buy disposable cameras (one for each table or geust). Put the price of these cameras with your price - have the geusts take some pictures, collect the cameras and have the photos developed - also make your cut on the photos. I think this will give some very interesting photos and you are bound to cover EVERYTHING at the reception. You got lots of photographers working for you and you cash in. |
I think that's a really bad idea because 1) a lot of people do THAT in lieu of hiring a photographer. We're trying to discourage that. 2) The quality of the images from a disposable camera are bound to be less than what comes out of your camera, and as Prof Fate pointed out, you will get blamed for all the pictures of feet, cut off heads, crooked pics, bad framing, etc. There was no shortage of cameras at my sister's wedding on Saturday. Besides the paid photographer, my brother, and me, I counted over a dozen cameras yesterday. Now, I did a wedding last summer where I think there was only one other camera besides my two. |
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03/06/2006 03:39:50 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:
Originally posted by marcellieb:
Originally posted by Givemeashot:
NIce!!! way to put it..... never really looked at it that way.... so basicly im screwed if i want to have them printed cuz i have to use the 500$ i get from them to print there pics...... |
You must work the prints into your price - Got a gr8 idea the other day - Buy disposable cameras (one for each table or geust). Put the price of these cameras with your price - have the geusts take some pictures, collect the cameras and have the photos developed - also make your cut on the photos. I think this will give some very interesting photos and you are bound to cover EVERYTHING at the reception. You got lots of photographers working for you and you cash in. |
I think that's a really bad idea because 1) a lot of people do THAT in lieu of hiring a photographer. We're trying to discourage that. 2) The quality of the images from a disposable camera are bound to be less than what comes out of your camera, and as Prof Fate pointed out, you will get blamed for all the pictures of feet, cut off heads, crooked pics, bad framing, etc. There was no shortage of cameras at my sister's wedding on Saturday. Besides the paid photographer, my brother, and me, I counted over a dozen cameras yesterday. Now, I did a wedding last summer where I think there was only one other camera besides my two. |
Point taken - You don't however give these photos and negatives - You keep the negatives, compile a separate album (Something you make sure does not connect to you). I think it will work nice.
You must remember that I do this as a hobby - not my main income - 50% of all the weddings I did thus far I did for free anyhow.
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03/06/2006 04:16:31 PM · #34 |
| Recently, most of my weddings have been for free. I used to do them for money, and I used someone else's equipment. So, he got 50% of what I made. :( |
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03/06/2006 04:18:36 PM · #35 |
First of all, when it comes to Senior Portraits (which I get a TON of) you should first ask, "what do you love about yourself and what do you want your peers to remember you for?" Are they an athelete, a pretty face have a personality flare? Capture those things,
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03/06/2006 04:28:34 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by CalamitysMaster00:
First of all, when it comes to Senior Portraits (which I get a TON of) you should first ask, "what do you love about yourself and what do you want your peers to remember you for?" Are they an athelete, a pretty face have a personality flare? Capture those things, |
I like this...... Very nice....im getting some good ideas from this stuff....you guys are helping me alot....thanks |
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03/06/2006 04:31:18 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by marcellieb:
Got a gr8 idea the other day - Buy disposable cameras (one for each table or geust). Put the price of these cameras with your price - have the geusts take some pictures, collect the cameras and have the photos developed - also make your cut on the photos. |
Every time I've seen those cameras used it is a grandmother taking pictures of her grandkids. They're largely useless. The cameras, that is, and the photos are junk. We did it at our wedding, and hardly any of them had pictures on them. Besides, this only covers the freaking reception. What about posed formals????
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03/06/2006 04:59:57 PM · #38 |
I was looking at shooting a wedding this summer.
What I was going to do was a full day of shooting. Traditional poses and a handful of candids at the reception. I intended on shooting both digital and B&W film.
For Post-Processing, I was going to export all of the RAW files, do some spot editing and then convert them all from TIF to high quality JPG and put them onto CD, seperated by directories denoting the main theme of each grouping of pictures; Bride Getting Ready, Ceremony, Bridal Party Pictures, Reception Candids, Dance.
I was going to do the same with the film. Taking the negatives and scanning them into the PC and tweaking them as necesary and adding them to a CD in the same fashion as the digital images from above.
Then, I was going to give the discs to the couple to make their own prints and album.
All for the low price of $1000.
If they wanted anything more then that, like a very basic album filled with a set handful of prints, I would adjust upwards to about $1200 to $1300. For a fancy album, I would have to do some serious research before I agreed to any pricing. |
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03/06/2006 05:02:22 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by nards656:
Originally posted by marcellieb:
Got a gr8 idea the other day - Buy disposable cameras (one for each table or geust). Put the price of these cameras with your price - have the geusts take some pictures, collect the cameras and have the photos developed - also make your cut on the photos. |
Every time I've seen those cameras used it is a grandmother taking pictures of her grandkids. They're largely useless. The cameras, that is, and the photos are junk. We did it at our wedding, and hardly any of them had pictures on them. Besides, this only covers the freaking reception. What about posed formals???? |
Sorry to hear you got a bad wrap from your table cameras.
My wife and I got well over 200 shots from ours and all of them are great memories of the good times had at our wedding reception. |
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03/06/2006 05:10:04 PM · #40 |
The paid photographer at my sister's wedding didn't stay for the reception at all. She only came in long enough to get a shot of the cake. Then, she said to me on her way out, that there would be an extra 2-3 pages at the end of my sister's album, so if I did any pictures at the reception that my sister really liked, we could put them in there. Even my older brother left his camera in the car for the reception. Then, he kept telling me to take pictures when his wife was dancing with their 8 year old son. I got a great picture of my sister-in-law dancing with my brother where she has this HUGE smile and you can tell she is all lit up inside. I sent it to my brother and told him it was unfair to our sister for his wife to look that beautiful at the wedding.
The paid photographer also only shot digital. I heard something about my sister and her husband getting a disk, but I don't know if that is accurate. |
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03/06/2006 05:22:11 PM · #41 |
Many brides tell me the throw away camera pics are no good. most people forget to turn on the flash, or the kids get them. They'd be better off spending that $100 or 200 on other photographic things - stamps with their formal shot for the thank you notes if nothing else. OOH, there's an idea!
I have a questionaire as part of what i send a prospective wedding client - i guess i need one for hte HS seniors too...will start working on that.
Albums: you can start at winkflash for $20 and work yhouway up to white glove at $950+. Prints in a matted album will run about $450. Today's trend is for digital albums (apollo illuma memory books, asuka books, gary fong's storybook, etc). Costs range from $50 or $60 to $200.
@Melissa Here is the same - $9 is above average pay, so I too would like to provide quality photography for the lowest classes. Some just don't value it - the wedding I did last weekend pics and album were like that. I did it for free (giving a CD...i hate that but lowest cost for me). They had NO disposable cameras, perhaps 3 people took photos at the ceremony, and fewer at the reception. It was a second marriage for both - but still an important day that should be remembered in photos. They have the money, but chose not to spend it all on the wedding, and none on photography. I got experience for free, more portfolio material, and perhaps some good word of mouth - so for me it works out (or i wouldn't have done it!). Just don't be fooled that people can't pay. They choose not to. And they were not excited about posing either, and that shows in the photos i think.
If making money is important to you (and my wife is in the social work field too and i work part time for 2.83/hour and tips) as it for me then you need to make as much as you can. If you can get $2000 why charge $500? Around here that's the market - 'pros' charge the higher number (and up) and the 'weekender hobbyists' charge the latter. I want to be in between. I can make about $12 an hour at my part time job, an unskilled one that i bring no tools to, so I better get more than that for shooting a wedding or why do it? (for the love of it, yeah yeah)
i have done several photographic endeavours for less (my pet photos was one...perhaps $6/hour after is was said and done) so i am as guilty as the next person for doing it - I just don't want to do it again! And certainly advise against it.
Message edited by author 2006-03-06 17:23:38.
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03/06/2006 05:37:37 PM · #42 |
I will keep it all in mind Prof! :D
."And they were not excited about posing either, and that shows in the photos i think. "
Ha! The paid photographer noted that my family didn't smile a lot in pictures. I told her that normally attempts at photographing most of my family resulted in some interesting hand shots, books in front of faces, middle fingers, etc. There's also one where she told all the brides maids to kiss my brother-in-law. At first, he said, "No," but she insisted. In the version of the picture I have you can tell he's extremely uncomfortable. |
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03/06/2006 05:53:01 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Originally posted by nards656:
Originally posted by marcellieb:
Got a gr8 idea the other day - Buy disposable cameras (one for each table or geust). Put the price of these cameras with your price - have the geusts take some pictures, collect the cameras and have the photos developed - also make your cut on the photos. |
Every time I've seen those cameras used it is a grandmother taking pictures of her grandkids. They're largely useless. The cameras, that is, and the photos are junk. We did it at our wedding, and hardly any of them had pictures on them. Besides, this only covers the freaking reception. What about posed formals???? |
Sorry to hear you got a bad wrap from your table cameras.
My wife and I got well over 200 shots from ours and all of them are great memories of the good times had at our wedding reception. |
I think you get the wrong idea - Me and the wife still do our normal stuff - We cover the wedding from the getting dressed all the way to the end (sometimes we start at the kitchen tea and bachelors already). The cameras on the table is an extra - I think you might get some very interesting shots this way -
remember what wedding photography is all about - memories; to try and capture the day is such a way that the couple will never forget the special moments, the decor, family and friends - THE FEELING. The cameras on the tables will give a diferent perspective.
You must remember that we as photographers in most cases don't know the couple, family and friends - We do what we can, but there is always a small gap - Family and friends taking pictures will fill that gap.
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