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02/16/2006 12:30:00 AM · #26 |
| A freelance photographer, given a brief for a shoot for a customer (GM, Ford for instance) would shoot...what? |
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02/16/2006 12:35:31 AM · #27 |
| To answer the original question, YES |
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02/16/2006 12:48:56 AM · #28 |
| I consider both as well. If it excellent but I cannot by any stretch of the imagination, find that it suits the challenge in my mind, it'll get between a 4-6. If it suits the challenge but is horrible, it may get a 3. It is MORE about the photographic quality, appeal to me, tonality, lighting, etc, BUT it has to be "good" to my eye first and foremost. If you have to explain it to me with a long winded title, that kinda bugs me too, but if the image is well done, then... it speaks for itself. |
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02/16/2006 11:48:12 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
...I can accept the liberal interpretation you seem to advocate, but also reserve my unalienable right to vote in accordance to my interpretation of what factors need be considered. |
a) If you can accept a view other than your own, then a debate about our respective views should also be possible. I, however, am not convinced this is the case.
b) I believe I have already gone through pains trying to make clear how I feel about your rights -again: You have all kinds of rights, including the one to vote as you please....
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02/22/2006 09:08:49 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by wrobel:
A freelance photographer, given a brief for a shoot for a customer (GM, Ford for instance) would shoot...what? |
Exactly! |
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02/22/2006 09:49:48 AM · #31 |
How many times do we have to dance around this topic?
Vote the way you like and leave others to do likewise. If you interpret the challenge literally you will vote strictly if you are a challenge liberal then your voting regime will reflect that too.
In the end it will make little or no difference because of the numbers of voters.
Message edited by author 2006-02-22 09:55:22.
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02/22/2006 09:57:30 AM · #32 |
if picture fit the challenge it is not really need to give it a name, but if it dose not fit the challenge you can try to rescue picture by giving it stupid name
ice
Originally posted by melissiaward:
There is alot of good photography on this site. I'm having a difficult time voting because sometimes the photogrphy is great but has little or nothing to do with the challenge. SOmetimes the challenge is depicted so well but the photography is poor. Which is which? |
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02/22/2006 10:05:18 AM · #33 |
I think that the photo has to meet the challenge...as that is the reason for the challenge...Not taking a superb photo then putting a clever title on it so it can be interpreted to meet the challenge.
I really like people who think outside of the box, and I try to look at it as if it is an interpretation that I don't 'know' of.
For instance I received a comment on my entry in the 80s challenge where they said this was something they were not familiar with (words to that effect - I'm trying to be vague so as not to get in trouble). But I am currently getting my highest score (which isn't high :-D 4.9672!!)
But as someone said earlier a horse is not the same as a frog no matter what you title the picture.
If the boss asks for a report on the cost of pens in the office and you give him a very detailed precise count of paperclips...Do you get an at-a-boy??
Message edited by author 2006-02-22 10:07:09.
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02/22/2006 10:09:44 AM · #34 |
| Im not going to jump in the middle od this...just wanted to let people know how i vote........Eye catching......good quality.....if it fits the title of the pic and the challenge..... But most time i dont vote under a 5 to me the voting scale is 5-10 unless the pic is so off the wall then thats when i use the 1-5. Just my 2 cents.... |
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02/22/2006 10:14:38 AM · #35 |
| When I'm voting, I 'judge' the photograph, and then assign it a number in my mind. Then I take the challenge topic into consideration.. if it totally doesn't meet it, I will usually drop 2-4 points. If I can't find a connection I will usually check the title and really try to figure out how to make it relate to the topic. |
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02/22/2006 11:38:49 AM · #36 |
| Sadly enough I've watched the site go from voting on the photograph to one that votes on the topic... I've seen photographs that took a minute to figure out how they met the challenge and were fantasticly taken and ended up inteh bottom of the pile, while photographas that should have been in the bottom of the pile up in the top because youcoudl easily see how it met the challenge... Today the voters seem to think that meeting the challenge is more important than the photograph as a whole. and I've seen SC support that ideal by poiinting out where in the rules it says that voters may vote that way.. so for now .. until things change......... |
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02/22/2006 11:43:52 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by Di:
Sadly enough I've watched the site go from voting on the photograph to one that votes on the topic... I've seen photographs that took a minute to figure out how they met the challenge and were fantasticly taken and ended up inteh bottom of the pile, while photographas that should have been in the bottom of the pile up in the top because youcoudl easily see how it met the challenge... Today the voters seem to think that meeting the challenge is more important than the photograph as a whole. and I've seen SC support that ideal by poiinting out where in the rules it says that voters may vote that way.. so for now .. until things change......... |
I share this view. |
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02/22/2006 11:55:57 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by Cyndane:
When I'm voting, I 'judge' the photograph, and then assign it a number in my mind. Then I take the challenge topic into consideration.. if it totally doesn't meet it, I will usually drop 2-4 points. If I can't find a connection I will usually check the title and really try to figure out how to make it relate to the topic. |
This is usually how I try to vote...but I am still new to this..
Originally posted by zeuszen and Di:
Today the voters seem to think that meeting the challenge is more important than the photograph as a whole. and I've seen SC support that ideal by poiinting out where in the rules it says that voters may vote that way.. so for now .. until things change......... |
But you are still saying that you base it somewhat on the topic, right? I referred in my post to the only relevents to the topic is the title. this is probably a bad example but what about a beautiful close up picture of a daisy. the topic can be clouds...and the title of the photo is 'white cloud'... Do you give it a 10 because the Daisy is pristine? irregardless of any clouds or any hint of a cloud meaning??
I really hope I don't sound negative...I am really curious as to what the general perception is.....as I didn't know what to do with some of my votes.
Message edited by author 2006-02-22 11:58:27.
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02/22/2006 12:03:55 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by dassilem:
...what about a beautiful close up picture of a daisy. the topic can be clouds...and the title of the photo is 'white cloud'... Do you give it a 10 because the Daisy is pristine? irregardless of any clouds or any hint of a cloud meaning?? |
It would have to be a hell of a daisy for that 10, but -to follow your analogy- yes, I'd likely not deduct for failing to meet the topic. When the challenge is over, I would not wish to be educated to the fact that White Cloud is an English translation of the Hopi name for this flower, in which case I would have then contributed nothing but my own ignorance and inflicted an injustice. |
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02/22/2006 12:04:57 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Di:
Sadly enough I've watched the site go from voting on the photograph to one that votes on the topic... I've seen photographs that took a minute to figure out how they met the challenge and were fantasticly taken and ended up inteh bottom of the pile, while photographas that should have been in the bottom of the pile up in the top because youcoudl easily see how it met the challenge... Today the voters seem to think that meeting the challenge is more important than the photograph as a whole. and I've seen SC support that ideal by poiinting out where in the rules it says that voters may vote that way.. so for now .. until things change......... |
I agree somewhat with what you say. But I am also part of SC, and I am just so very, very tired of getting accused of everything it seems, from biased entering, to bending the rules, to damaging the quality of the photography on the site, and so on. I am almost losing interest in photography at the moment because of all of this.
Somewhere here it says that when voting users should keep the challenge topic in mind. It is part of what the site is about to keep the challenge topic in mind.
For myself, I like to vote on the photography for the most part. I am here because of photography, not really much else. For the most part I assume that people have their reasons, and many different ways of interpreting words and concepts. Most people entering challenges are trying to meet the challenge criteria.
Anyway.
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02/22/2006 12:05:17 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by dassilem:
But as someone said earlier a horse is not the same as a frog no matter what you title the picture. |
but...a horse has frogs! ;)
FROG: The V-shaped, horn pad on the bottom of a horse's foot that acts as a shock absorber.
Three Frogs
I agree with your post, btw.
Message edited by author 2006-02-22 12:16:38. |
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02/22/2006 12:06:57 PM · #42 |
We have photographers divided nto two main camps, with a much smaller outlier group.
Camp 1 takes the challenge literally, as an "assignment"; their position can be summed up as "My assignment is to take a potential cover shot for the magazine "Fashion" or the magazine "Country Life" or whatever. Their personal goal is to find and execute the image that best exemplifies the literal challenge, whatever it may be.
Camp 2 takes the challenge as a guideline, a focusing device if you will; their personal goal is to use the challenge topic to spark their personal vision or creativity to produce an image that is relevant to the topic but presents an alternative view of it.
The outliers appear to pay little or no heed to the challenge, entering sunrises sans people in "fashion" or whatever. There are not many of these.
Voters, of course, clump into groups that match these two main groups, with a few outlier voters who pay no heed whatever to the challenge topic and vote for whichever images most please them.
It's my position, and apparently ZeusZen's, and certainly others', that a great number of wonderful images get buried in the voting because their relevance to the topic is not immediately obvious to the casual voter. But, oddly enough, there are quite a few people who believe that a significant number of the ribbon winners do NOT pay proper respect to the challenge topic.
This is an issue that is never going to be resolved in any meaningful way. But I think it's a shame that, by and large, lateral thinking, truly creative thinking, is not rewarded by this site's voters. I can understand off-the-wall images that actually do meet the challenge, even if only obliquely, not finishing in the top 20 or 30, say; but it makes me weep to see wonderful work buried in the bottom of the pile underneath heaps of technically mediocre, conceptually lackluster images whose sole virtue, really, is that they DO meet the challenge head-on.
R.
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02/22/2006 12:11:31 PM · #43 |
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02/22/2006 12:15:45 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by ursula:
Somewhere here it says that when voting users should keep the challenge topic in mind. It is part of what the site is about to keep the challenge topic in mind.
For myself, I like to vote on the photography for the most part. I am here because of photography, not really much else. For the most part I assume that people have their reasons, and many different ways of interpreting words and concepts. Most people entering challenges are trying to meet the challenge criteria. |
The problem is that the rules say "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." It's that "highest consideration" part that's causing the problem, IMO. It seems that most voters have a sliding scale on "meets the challenge", whith more points being awarded to the challenge-meeting portion of their vote if an image meets the challenge "obviously", and fewer points if it meets the challenge "obliquely".
Myself, I'm an on/off voter as far as meeting the challenge goes; if I can see any challenge relevance whatsoever, that's good enough for me. I'm well aware that MY "idea" of what "heart" means may be different than YOUR idea of same, so I'd feel horrible penalizing you for not thinking the same way I do. But that's exactly what a LOT of voters do; they carry their own mind-set into the voting, and reward thoise who think the way they do.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; I come to these challenges, as a voter, hoping to have my prejudices and preconceptions expanded, not reinforced. I'm genuinely interested in how many different ways people find to interpret a challenge. I think it's a shame that in my time here I have seen the site apparently tending more and more towards an exercise in group-think.
I believe if that "vote the topic" line were modified from its authoritarian tone to something more permissive, we'd be better off for it.
Robt.
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02/22/2006 12:25:18 PM · #45 |
in the meantime [ tongue in cheek ] how many votes of 10 do I need to raise my 80 score from 4.9808 to at least a 5??? Or at least freeze the 4.9808. Its my highest!!! woo-hoo..
Sorry, back to topic
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02/22/2006 12:26:59 PM · #46 |
I look at it as I would if I were buying a photograph to meet the challenge. To get a high score, it needs to be a good photograph, but it also has to communicate the concept. If I don't get how it fits, it's not going to get voted high.
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02/22/2006 12:39:30 PM · #47 |
I vote on both BUT its very important to me that the image meets the challenge, also helps if its a good shot. I hate when the photo has nothing to do with a challenge and the photographer trys to make title tie in to the challenge. But also there are a few great photos that does not meet the challenge that I like I usually leave a little extra in the comments on those. I do not to just come out an say hey this photo has nothing to do with the challenge cause sometimes I see that and on others and some make take that as kind of harsh/rude, they me see that it fits the challenge
Message edited by author 2006-02-22 12:41:54.
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02/22/2006 12:47:14 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It's my position, and apparently ZeusZen's, and certainly others', that a great number of wonderful images get buried in the voting because their relevance to the topic is not immediately obvious to the casual voter. But, oddly enough, there are quite a few people who believe that a significant number of the ribbon winners do NOT pay proper respect to the challenge topic. |
Not odd at all -- seems likely to me that an intelligently thought out, outside-the-box picture will be scored poorly by exactly the same people that will give a high score to cutesy, oversaturated, oversharpened drek.
Heck, I'm not the best photographer here by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel my best work, that which I'd frame, I've submitted has received some of the lowest scores yet my best rated work isn't worthy of a 4x6. It irritates me no end. In the current bunch of challenges, I've got an entry in 80's which from my effort isn't much more than a glorified snapshot yet will probably end up about 6, and a true Duotone (not a b&W or sepiatone) that's outside-the-box that will end up about 4.
Basically the only way to emotionally survive is to ignore the voting and just enjoy the photography.
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02/22/2006 12:54:46 PM · #49 |
This whole discussion of "Does it meet the challenge and how do you score meeting the challenge" has been going on since DPC started.
I look at it this way. I come here to see how other people think. I already know how I think and I am not interested in imposing my thinking on others. I will challenge people from time to time with a statement but that is mainly to fish for opposition and other viewpoints.
So..with that in mind...I really hope each challenge I will see interesting and personal ways to meet a challenge. It opens my eyes to other possibilities.
I go out of my way to see wider interpretations of a challenge
So..I rarely say "That photo does not meet the challenge" or "They just stretched a photo to get it in"...
And..to turn that whole DP Challenge "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." around....
Highest consideration could actually mean "You could learn something from other people and that is the highest consideration"
'Course, that is just my take...:-/ |
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02/22/2006 12:57:41 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by hokie:
And..to turn that whole DP Challenge "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." around....
Highest consideration could actually mean "You could learn something from other people and that is the highest consideration" |
In our dreams; imagine how interesting this place would be if the highest scores went to the images that shock our perceptions the most... :-)
R.
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