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02/21/2006 12:43:33 PM · #51 |
darn, and I'm still waiting for my 30*10 D to get here ;-)
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02/21/2006 12:45:18 PM · #52 |
I think that the marketing idea behind this one is to push the sales price of the midrange SLR down and force upgraders to the 5D. A too good 30D would have eroded the 5D market.
It will not be long before Canon lowers the price of the XT towards the D50 or even come with an even lower spec body. Thom Hogan (very knowledgable Nikononian) has an interesting thought process about that on his website. This year will be all about Canon and Nikon trying to keep their market shares high against all the newcomers by forcing the others out of the market with lower prices.
Besides that. The 30D is a good body and the 8mp CMOS with DigicII is still a great imager. An upgrade to 10mp would not be very interesting or worth the investment for Canon.
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02/21/2006 12:59:05 PM · #53 |
That EF-S 17-55 IS f/2.8 looks like one fine lens btw. I wonder what it will cost compared to Nikons 17-55 DX (without IS!). I'd love IS on such a 'wide' lens (/me is camera shaker).
The 17-55DX looks a lot better build tough.
Message edited by author 2006-02-21 13:00:58.
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02/21/2006 01:10:52 PM · #54 |
| Damn, I just bought a 20D two months ago. Oh well.... |
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02/21/2006 01:18:25 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
That EF-S 17-55 IS f/2.8 looks like one fine lens btw. I wonder what it will cost compared to Nikons 17-55 DX (without IS!). I'd love IS on such a 'wide' lens (/me is camera shaker).
The 17-55DX looks a lot better build tough. |
Looks like it's going to be $1150. //www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022113canonefs1755f28g.asp
That's pretty great for low-light.. a stabilised wide-ish 2.8 zoom would be sweet. Even better would be a 28mm 1.8 IS... lol |
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02/21/2006 01:24:49 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by phatphoto:
What a bummer...I was waiting to see if Canon would be coming out with a camera that would rival the D200, but from what I am reading here, it doesn't. :(
Should I go ahead and order my D200 or do you REALLY think that there's another camera coming out that would be comparable??? How do you guys find these announcements anyway? :) |
This is always a hard question. There will always be the next 'greatest" thing coming down the road. Canon releases more camera bodies than Nikon but that is not always good. It is mainly a marketing strategy to keep sales moving, not always for pure inovation. This time it looks like they may have screwed up and released a camera that does not fit anywhere in their line.
With that said they are likely to come out with a higher end cropped sensor model between this and the 5D. When? Who really knows.
When you are ready to buy I would go out and test the cmeras that are availalbe then and buy what fits for you. Don't get caught up in the "next" one coming.
IMHO of course. |
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02/21/2006 01:38:09 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by jsolsona:
I'm actually pretty happy with the announecement...
Spot metering for me is huge... |
Agreed, see you at Leo's. ;-) |
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02/21/2006 03:00:13 PM · #58 |
I'm not sure why some are so upset that it's not a 10MP sensor. I don't see too many saying that the 20D has too few MP's? Besides, going from 8 to 10 MP isn't a big increase in the size of the image anyway. I think you need to go to about 12MP to make a real world difference.
I think digital IQ improvements are starting to slow down as the last 2 new Canon's (1DMII N, 5D) have had Digic II's and seem to have similar IQ when compared to the MII and the 20D (per DPReview.com). Anyway, I don't think this is a big deal as the current IQ from Canon dslr's are excellent. The 30D MSRP is cheaper than the 20D's, it will be easier to use, have more functions, and has the same excellent IQ. Sounds like a good deal to me.
As for RAW processors, when the 1DMII was upgraded to the N with the picture style, they changed the RAW programming so the RAW programs needed to be upgraded. I suspect it will be the same with the 30D.
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02/21/2006 03:10:41 PM · #59 |
8 to 10 isn't big, but neither is 6 to 8 for us old rebel users.
6 to 10, however, would have been big
Originally posted by yido:
I'm not sure why some are so upset that it's not a 10MP sensor. I don't see too many saying that the 20D has too few MP's? Besides, going from 8 to 10 MP isn't a big increase in the size of the image anyway. I think you need to go to about 12MP to make a real world difference. |
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02/21/2006 03:14:16 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by yido:
I'm not sure why some are so upset that it's not a 10MP sensor. I don't see too many saying that the 20D has too few MP's? Besides, going from 8 to 10 MP isn't a big increase in the size of the image anyway. I think you need to go to about 12MP to make a real world difference.
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Many of the people who were hoping for 10MP may have been 300D owners. Personally, I can't see spending $1200 on a new body for a 25% increase in pixels (especially when I can do it on the XT for much less), but a 70% increase would have been worth a looksee. The other features are less important to me, but if I'm going to start putting stuff in galleries, getting to that 30x40 print is much easier with 10MP than with 6MP. |
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02/21/2006 03:35:52 PM · #61 |
If you want 30x40 prints, I think Medium format might be a better thing.
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02/21/2006 03:40:01 PM · #62 |
Perhaps we are starting to see the leveling off of the digital camera technology curve - at least practically speaking. The improvements are becoming very incremental.
The megapixel war has cooled as growth there is becoming marginal in terms of image quality. Larger LCD viewing screens on the back, while appreciated, have finite growth due to camera size.
Shutter burst speeds already exceed most photographers needs and even desires.
There can be some good to all of this which is longer model lifecycles. More like the film SLR's which seemed to go 3-5 years before redesigns. Which in turn would lower prices for all of us, due to lower relative design costs. How soon we forget that the Top of the Line Film SLR's were about $1,500. The point and shoot digitals are now starting to approach the cost of what film point and shoots were a few years ago. Perhaps we will enjoy the same trend with digital SLR's |
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02/21/2006 03:40:26 PM · #63 |
| What are the PictureStyles they mention? |
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02/21/2006 03:41:48 PM · #64 |
| Well, that would be a whole 'nuther ball of wax wouldn't it? While it would be fun, I enjoy digital so much more than film for the instant feedback I get. You can get to 30x40 even with 6MP (although that's a stretch), but 10MP would be a lot easier. I think I'd do the 5D before I'd go to another format. New lenses, scanning equipemtn, etc. It would be prohibitive, not to mention I would be starting over on the experience curve. |
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02/21/2006 05:58:05 PM · #65 |
| Don't know if it has been mentioned here but it looks like the 20D will be discontinued. The press release says "replaces" 20D |
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02/21/2006 06:01:53 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by Baron152:
Don't know if it has been mentioned here but it looks like the 20D will be discontinued. The press release says "replaces" 20D |
D60, was replaced by the D30, which was replaced by the 10D, which was replaced by the 20D, which will be replaced by the 30D, which I assume will be replaced by the 40D in about 18 months. It's the whole circle of life thing.... or is that product cycle.....
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02/21/2006 06:32:54 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by hankk:
Also, lots of leaks on a 10.5Mp 35D, with the 5D AF system - something akin to the D200, so I figure it to be $100 under the Nikon.
If there is a 35D/7D kind of camera coming, that would make the choice between it and the 30D a tough one for me. Who knows, perhaps these will be Fotokina announcements? |
//www.camera-news.com/2006/02/20/is-this-the-canon-3d/ |
Think I will be waiting for the 3D (or whatever), this looks interesting. Might as well hang on a few more weeks, there's no particular rush.
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02/21/2006 07:55:17 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by buzzrock:
What are the PictureStyles they mention? |
Yes, I'm curious what this is in comparison to what currently exists on say the 300d shooting RAW, or even another camera currently.
I'm very curious what this change means in the long run. |
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02/21/2006 07:59:35 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by eckoe:
Originally posted by buzzrock:
What are the PictureStyles they mention? |
Yes, I'm curious what this is in comparison to what currently exists on say the 300d shooting RAW, or even another camera currently.
I'm very curious what this change means in the long run. |
"Picturestyles" are already in use with the 5D; they replace the current "parameters"; they represent different mixes of sharpness, saturation, contrast etc. You still have the option of creating your own mixes in the user-defined sets. They are, of course, irrelevant to RAW shooting.
R.
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02/21/2006 08:07:41 PM · #70 |
| Thanks Bear, that makes sense. I dug into them a bit on all of the sites that talked about it, but didn't get a nice easy way to understand it, and how it effects RAW shooting. |
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02/21/2006 08:26:43 PM · #71 |
| Why doesn't Canon not have the 30d on thier website yet? Or did I just miss it? |
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02/21/2006 08:56:28 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by eckoe:
Originally posted by buzzrock:
What are the PictureStyles they mention? |
Yes, I'm curious what this is in comparison to what currently exists on say the 300d shooting RAW, or even another camera currently.
I'm very curious what this change means in the long run. |
"Picturestyles" are already in use with the 5D; they replace the current "parameters"; they represent different mixes of sharpness, saturation, contrast etc. You still have the option of creating your own mixes in the user-defined sets. They are, of course, irrelevant to RAW shooting.
R. |
Yeah, like Robt said. They have high sharpness, bright blues & greens for landscape; low sharpness and warm colors for portraits; neutral settings for those that want to do everything themselves; some user-defined settings, and a few others. The dpreview.com listing explains them quite well.
Looks like a great camera. I still want to see the Olympus E-330.
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02/21/2006 10:12:36 PM · #73 |
| I was hoping for something a bit more revolutionary, but the 30D appears to be little more than a tweaked 20D, shades of Nikon D70S, refried beans, etc. |
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02/21/2006 10:20:45 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by ElGordo:
I was hoping for something a bit more revolutionary, but the 30D appears to be little more than a tweaked 20D, shades of Nikon D70S, refried beans, etc. |
The way I look at it: it's a refined 10D with a spot meter, for considerably less money than what I paid for one a while back. |
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02/21/2006 11:02:32 PM · #75 |
As someone who has been seriously looking at the 20D for a while and is merely waiting for the prices to stabilize after the PMA show to buy, I can actually say that this looks like an excellent upgrade to the 20D.
So many times, companies upgrade their cameras in really drastic shifts. This often leads people to stick with their old camera because there were many things it did better (see FZ20 to FZ30 as an example where newer is not always better, especially in lens and noise issues).
It looks like they left the strong points of the 20D in place but improved a few minor areas that needed to be moved upwards, namely the Spot metering, the file management and the LCD viewer.
It's a modernized 20D, but that's just fine because the 20D was already a very fine camera.
A lot of worries were also calmed in this. Many were worried that it would get smaller and feel like a crappy machine. It hasn't.
Nothing appears to have been lost, but in fairness, there is a gain. 5FPS is pretty fast. 8.2MP is pretty good and ISO response has always been very good.
This camera fills it's own place out nicely without pushing too hard on the edges of what other cameras in the Canon line do. You want a faster camera? Go 1D. Want something smaller or cheaper? Go 350XT. (PS, here in Taiwan, the price of that camera has come down to be pretty darn close to the D50. I can get the Japanese Kiss N Kit (350XT with the 18-55 USM and the 55-200) for the same price as a D50 kit).
Does it hold it's own against the D200? You bet. Why? Because it was a great camera to begin with.
The difference between 5 and 6fps is minimal.
Would I want 10MP? Heck no. That was the primary reason I was looking at 2nd hand 20D's. I DON'T want smaller pixel sites!!!!
Canon has really mixed things up for me because they have finally seen the light and realized that people do understand that smaller pixels create more issues. They have even acknowledged this in their press release which actually states pixel pitch! (6.4um)
They realize that consumers are finally educating themselves and understand that larger pixels means better pictures. Even if it is necessary later to interpolate to larger sizes.
If you want to make bigger prints, you don't need more pixels, you need a bigger sensor.
If you are genuinely disappointed that the 30D is not 10MP, I suggest you read up on the effects of diffraction and some technical details about how noise actually works.
In my opinion, the 30D is a SERIOUS and welcome addition to the DSLR world; one that can easily hold it's own against the wild and crazy D200.
What I personally find interesting is that the way I see it, this is a major milestone in the path to return to the simpler world of Film SLRs.
Film SLR's have certain bodies in certain ranges that don't change quite so quickly as their digital counterparts.
The benefits have been cheaper bodies and a real sense of quality throughout the range.
It has been the case for a while that with your 250 dollars, you can either buy a little P&S film camera or a passable film SLR body.
As things settle down, we will see everything move back towards this standard (ok, maybe not after inflation, but you know what I mean).
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