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02/13/2006 01:48:09 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Di:
Try puttign her in some of the photos that you are taking.. |
Originally posted by printer4u:
She doesn;t like to be in anu pictures. Whenever I take a photo that includes her she asks me to delete it..and i respectfully do. |
Sounds very familiar! Except the part about deleting them. I have quite the "Hands in front of face" and "Very angry wife look" collections. :( |
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02/13/2006 01:50:35 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Sounds very familiar! Except the part about deleting them. I have quite the "Hands in front of face" and "Very angry wife look" collections. :( |
That's funny! Now that I think of it...If I had a dime for every one of those shots I deleted.....
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02/13/2006 01:51:37 PM · #28 |
By the way Art - I sent you a PM.
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02/13/2006 02:00:25 PM · #29 |
"kavey" and "laurielblack" made some very good points in their posts. My first thoughts were:
1) Does she know (have you actually talked to her about it) how much photography means to you? Does she know how badly that remark hurt you? If not, share your feelings.
2) If you've shared your feelings about photography with her in the past and she still makes this type of comment, I'd feel compelled to ask you what type of relationship you have with your wife. Pursuit of your passion and support by your loved ones completes and fulfills YOU personally and enables you to be a healthy, happy part of a couple / relationship. If you are unhappy and misunderstood and deprived of personal pleasure/pursuits you're dragging that into your relationship.
It is to the benefit of BOTH of you to acknowledge, support and praise one another's passions. The only exception to this would be in the case where either of your hobbies/passions interferred with spending quality time with your family members or financial responsibilities.
Don't sell! Communicate!
Good Luck! |
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02/13/2006 02:07:54 PM · #30 |
I'm sure I've crushed several of Karmat's dreams by being unnecessarily realistic and selfish. It has NEVER been my intent to crush her dreams, but I'm sure I have. Supporting someone's dream, when it is not your own dream, requires a very serious committment to that person.
A friend of mine who was actually the enabler for one of the greatest dreams of my life was also the one who completely crushed by being (IMO) completely selfish as to the direction he chose to proceed.
Most of the advice I see here frustrates me. It's very selfish advice, to be honest. We're just telling printer4u what we would want to hear if it were us. "Don't let anyone steal your dreams, follow your heart, do what YOU want to do..."
In order to support the dream that Karma and I both have to raise happy, healthy children, we BOTH have some of our "other" dreams on hold. Our kids are more important than our personal "desires." I would LOVE to have a Harley and cruise the mountains every weekend, but that would be harmful to my relationship with her AND with the kids, so that dream is on hold. I would love to be a traveling musician, but to keep my chops at the necessary level, I would either have to quit my job or practice to the exclusion of both her and the kids, which would be devastating to our family life. Such would not be healthy "dream pursuit", and I don't want to give advice of that nature, either.
Perhaps the appearance that printer4u gives is that everything he does is "tainted" by the need to take a picture. He may ignore his wife's emotional needs because he feels like all those chores he does fulfills his responsibility to her. Maybe he has more than once made her take a backseat to that darn camera. She may never feel that she is the most important thing in his life. While I do a terrible job of acting on this advice myself, I can tell you that women who love men want that man to unconditionally treat them as the most important thing in the world. Personally, I need a lot of work in this area.
So.... my advice is to be careful. Don't let your so-called "dreams" displace someone that you love, even if she does appear selfish in this case.
To the rest of us, let's remember that we're only hearing one side of the story. There is an entirely different viewpoint that we have no input about.
printer4u, best of luck with it. I know it hurts, and I'm sorry for that. This is not meant to be an antagonistic post, just a call to reality.
As I mentioned, I'm too much of a realist, I suppose :)
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02/13/2006 02:23:43 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by printer4u:
By the way Art - I sent you a PM. |
Emailed you back a reply. |
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02/13/2006 03:11:52 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by printer4u:
Saturday night there was an open house at the gallery and my wife and I stopped in for a short time before we went out to dinner. When we left there this is what she said to me; "I think you should concentrate on something more productive (meaning money generating) instead of spending all this energy on this photography thing." |
Funny she didn't say that about your taking her out to dinner.
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02/13/2006 03:59:09 PM · #33 |
2 things
if you made 1500 last month & it isn't your main source of income - i think you are covered ...
my wife has made a similar comment(s) in the past - but i haven't heard a word since getting ribbon'ed at DPC and getting into a juried show .. (external validation) -
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02/13/2006 04:04:41 PM · #34 |
people have always looked at writing and art as a hobby and a waste of time as a profession.
i have some theories:
they don't know any better.
they're jealous of your creativity.
they're jealous that you may love art more than them.
however, when you make it big in writing or art, you get a lot of respect and support... go figure.
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02/13/2006 04:17:39 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by nards656:
Most of the advice I see here frustrates me. It's very selfish advice, to be honest. We're just telling printer4u what we would want to hear if it were us. "Don't let anyone steal your dreams, follow your heart, do what YOU want to do..."
...
So.... my advice is to be careful. Don't let your so-called "dreams" displace someone that you love, even if she does appear selfish in this case.
To the rest of us, let's remember that we're only hearing one side of the story. There is an entirely different viewpoint that we have no input about. |
I must be reading different posts to you because I'm not seeing people suggest that printer4u put his dreams before his relationship at all, nor that he be selfish about pursuing his dreams to the extent that he fails to give his wife what she needs from the relationship too.
Infact, a number of us have questioned whether original statement from his wife is her way of saying she feels resentful of the passion he feels for photography? Whether the passion is there or not isn't so much the question as whether his wife perceives it to be.
Whilst we're obviously only getting one side here, reading printer4u's posts doesn't give me the impression of someone who is so focused on his hobby/ interest that he is ignoring other commitments in his life.
However, it's important to recognise that a successful relationship requires each partner to support the other's dreams where they can. That doesn't mean that each can selfishly pursue every last dream and desire they have, of course not! It means that each partner recognises that they cannot share every last interest, hobby and dream with their partner and compromise for a stronger relationship on which dreams they each do pursue.
Clearly you and Karmat have agreed your own compromises where you each pursue some of your personal interests with each other's support but also mutually agree not to pursue others.
I think the advice here has been pretty balanced actually - neither to be wholly selfish in his pursuit of his dreams not to wholly surrender them either.
Message edited by author 2006-02-13 16:18:08.
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02/13/2006 04:41:32 PM · #36 |
Okay, before I start, I had typed out a whole reply, then lost it during the post...I hope I can remember what I said in the first "draft"...
Basically, I am of the opinion that people are either creative, or they're not. I think of it as a "gene." Those of us who have "the gene" need to be using our mind in a creative way, if not always, then often. When we aren't, we often feel unbalanced or unfulfilled. People who don't have "the gene" don't understand that.
I think most of us enjoy our solitude more than others and that can lead to a feeling that they are somewhat "removed" on a particular occassion/day/time. They see things as black & white, realistic or unrealistic, good or bad. A love of all things artistic can bring times of grief as well as joy...in your particular situation, love of being behind the lens, shooting away and the slight disappointment in your own expectations of what/when your art will be what you have defined for yourself as "successfull."
The difference in the 2 cases (the artist and the realist) can be compared to the age old enigma of the sexes. Can we ever TRULY understand the opposite sex? Ultimately, we choose either to tolerate the fact that we are just different, or we choose not to.
Your wife, being a realist, may just not understand your need to pursue/nurture something which you, yourself have obviously had mixed emotions about. She may see your occasional disappointments and not know that there are specifics to it and that while you can never think about not being a photographer, there are certain aspects of being that, which are frustrating.
In my opinion, if you have explained in detail your relationship with your art, of the ups and downs, the joys and pains, the triumphs and the failures and she just doesn't "get it" then agree to disagree, but also tell her that it is important to you. Tell her that you hope that her support, like her love, is unconditional.
As far as "sales" are concerned, my feeling is that if you endeavor to be a professional photographer, and earn a living at it, then like any other career path, you will have to devote time to it. If you are in a situation that does not allow for that, and you can't change the situation, then you have to accept that. If you wanted to become a lawyer, say, you'd have to make time for school and so on.
Having said that, I feel that if you photograph because you just love to do it, then "sales" should not discourage you. Sure, we all want to see our art appreciated, to be in National Geographic or Time, but ultimately, that sale is validation to us...someone else saying "hey, that's good." If you enjoy what you do, if YOU like the results, then just keep doing it. Define your own success, appreciate your own worth and the worth of what YOU capture in YOUR lens.
Maybe, just maybe, if your wife sees that selling is not the source of your achievement, she will better undersand your love of the art, itself.
Best Regards |
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02/13/2006 05:01:36 PM · #37 |
Rick...
DO NOT EVER QUIT YOUR DREAM BECAUSE OF SOMEONE ELSE!!!!
If you do quit, do it becuase it no longer is a dream. it doesn't matter what anyone else says as long as it makes you happy. My wife has had negative feedback about her writing and beadwork since she was a child (she's now 29). I have been the only positive influence to her and she still nurtures the dream of becoming a known writer and artist.
You made $1,450 more last month doing photography than I've EVER made doing photography in my life.
However, if you are determined to dump all your stuff I'll take it from you. I can't PAY you for it, but I'll take it.
just remember....
DO NOT EVER QUIT YOUR DREAM BECAUSE OF SOMEONE ELSE!!!! |
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02/13/2006 05:15:00 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by NathanW:
Rick...
DO NOT EVER QUIT YOUR DREAM BECAUSE OF SOMEONE ELSE!!!!
DO NOT EVER QUIT YOUR DREAM BECAUSE OF SOMEONE ELSE!!!! |
ATTN: Kavey
Need I say more?????
I'm not here to get into an argument with you, so please keep that in mind. My point is that going to the donut shop to find someone who thinks eating donuts is good can make for a very unhealthy George. Most people here put photography pretty high on their personal scale of "value." We're not marriage counselors, and the fact that "we" are tainted by our personal preference for art and photography make us "suckers" for the emotions printer4u is feeling. We empathize. We feel his pain.
But we may be wrong. The couple probably has problems that go far beyond the doggone camera and lens problem, and some of his later posts start to hint at that. For us to jump in with comments like the one above (even though it came after mine and your posts) is very immature.
printer4u may need to sacrifice his camera to preserve his marriage. If his "dream" is more important than his marriage, that's his call, but it sounds to me like there are some big issues there. "someone else" covers a lot of ground and includes wives, children, etc... How many children have been denied a decent family life because their parents have "dreams"???
Personally? "If your dreams get in the way of your responsibilities, you may need a maturity check before you go off the deep end chasing dreams."
Message edited by author 2006-02-13 17:16:54.
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02/13/2006 05:17:01 PM · #39 |
I think my issue was with your use of "most of the advice I see here" but, agreed, I have no wish to get into an argument with you.
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02/13/2006 05:18:49 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
I think my issue was with your use of "most of the advice I see here" but, agreed, I have no wish to get into an argument with you. |
The overall impression I got after reading the thread perhaps overly influenced that statement :)
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02/13/2006 05:33:27 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by nards656:
Originally posted by NathanW:
Rick...
DO NOT EVER QUIT YOUR DREAM BECAUSE OF SOMEONE ELSE!!!!
DO NOT EVER QUIT YOUR DREAM BECAUSE OF SOMEONE ELSE!!!! |
ATTN: Kavey
Need I say more?????
I'm not here to get into an argument with you, so please keep that in mind. My point is that going to the donut shop to find someone who thinks eating donuts is good can make for a very unhealthy George. Most people here put photography pretty high on their personal scale of "value." We're not marriage counselors, and the fact that "we" are tainted by our personal preference for art and photography make us "suckers" for the emotions printer4u is feeling. We empathize. We feel his pain.
But we may be wrong. The couple probably has problems that go far beyond the doggone camera and lens problem, and some of his later posts start to hint at that. For us to jump in with comments like the one above (even though it came after mine and your posts) is very immature.
printer4u may need to sacrifice his camera to preserve his marriage. If his "dream" is more important than his marriage, that's his call, but it sounds to me like there are some big issues there. "someone else" covers a lot of ground and includes wives, children, etc... How many children have been denied a decent family life because their parents have "dreams"???
Personally? "If your dreams get in the way of your responsibilities, you may need a maturity check before you go off the deep end chasing dreams." |
No offense but you keep using the word "WE" in your post. You should say "I" as you don't speak for me.
Best Regards
Erick
Message edited by author 2006-02-13 17:34:04. |
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02/13/2006 05:50:22 PM · #42 |
Gee, killed another one.
Message edited by author 2006-02-14 01:26:31. |
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02/28/2006 12:18:39 PM · #43 |
I've got 3 favorite words for situations like this:
Pack Your Trash!!! |
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02/28/2006 04:53:50 PM · #44 |
Oh wow, printer4u, I am also in this situation. My husband and I are at a crisis point right now, where everything seems to be blamed on my photography, which I have been trying for 2 years to turn into a full-time career (in addition to working my bread and butter job). My husband has always been fully supportive of my photography passion and goals, but last year I started hearing repeated "you're always busy and there's never a slow time for you" remarks. Then, remarks like "I'm not waiting for you anymore, I'm just gonna go do what I want to do". I'm also now experiencing resistance when I want to show him or tell him about my latest photography accomplishments. The situation has degraded such that since I feel I cannot talk to him about my photography challenges or accomplishments anymore, I have basically lost the enjoyment of my craft. I feel guilty and depressed all the time.
My husband's feelings in this regard are quite valid, because I admit that I have been very self-absorbed as I pursue my goals. However, I do believe that our issues go way deeper, and that "my photography" is just being used as an excuse. My husband feels frustrated because for the past 2 years we have not been able to "do" summer recreation activities because 1) any revenue I generate from my photography mostly happens in the summer, and 2) we have had conflicting "free weekend" schedules because he is required to work alternate weekends during the summer.
I have experienced feelings where I felt that in order to salvage the marriage, I would have to put my photography equipment in the back of a closet never to be touched again, and just drop everything I have worked so hard to achieve. But is this right? I don't think so. If I can't do photography, I would probably just find another passion to take its place and still have the same problems with my husband.
So now, while I search for the right answer for myself and my relationship with my husband, I'm trying to cut back on my photography activities (fewer art shows, concentrating less on selling my work)and take a bit of a break. And trying to keep the lines of communication open while we ride this emotional roller coaster we've been on since last year. Trying to work through our problems. Taking one day at a time.
My situation isn't the same as yours, but I have learned that I'm not the only photographer (or artist for that matter) who has relationship issues because of this passion. I do believe that the root cause of the unhappiness must be identified through open communication before a decision can be made on what to do next. The solution you find for yourself may not be the right solution for someone else. I also feel that one should not feel compelled to give up doing something they love just to make someone else happy.
For what it's worth, I hope my comments help.
Linda
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02/28/2006 05:01:19 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by meanwile:
Maybe she didn't mean to be a dreamsquasher - here are some potential scenarios:
She may not have known that her suggestion would hurt you, perhaps it was off the cuff, flip, mentioned in passing.
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i have only been into photography for a little over a year but i have drawn and painted since i was very young. one of the things i have noticed as an artist is that artists are generally more sensitive and introstpective about such comments than others.
i think you are reading too much into it but then... what do i know?
you could always shoot her.
then you could get some really interesting pictures AND be on the news!
congrats on getting the space to show your work by the way. it takes a lot of guts to do that sort of thing. |
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02/28/2006 05:16:12 PM · #46 |
| Passion can get you anywhere - especially into trouble. Passion got you into the relationship with both the camera and the lady. |
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02/28/2006 06:09:30 PM · #47 |
And people ask me why I'm single.
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02/28/2006 06:43:36 PM · #48 |
Mr. Ed, I was just thinking the exact same thing.... Thank God I'm single!
Okay, what do you guys think of this one. My sister's getting married on Saturday. My older brother and I are both into photography. I have experience professionally shooting weddings. Either one of us would have been completely happy to shoot my sister's wedding free of charge. Originally, that was the plan. Then, the groom's mother decided to pay $900 to someone to come shoot the wedding, and from what I hear this person isn't a particularly good photographer. I'm mad because my sister could have spoke up and said that either my brother or I was going to shoot the wedding, but she didn't.
This Saturday she and the groom were talking about the wedding, and the groom said, "I don't think this photographer is really that good." I told them straight out I thought they were stupid to throw that kind of money away when there were two photographers in the family, and if his mother had $900 she really didn't know what to do with.... I wouldn't have said no. So, my sister said, "Oh you can still take pictures..."
I said, "No. I can't," and left the room. Now, my mother wants me to take pictures because she doesn't think she'll get any wedding photos if I don't take them. I don't want to do it. I don't want to be relegated to trying to take pictures from inside a church pew that are going to come out ever so slightly off center, with the back of grandma's head in it, other people getting in my way since I'm not THE photographer, etc.
My co-workers, one of whom I did her wedding, don't blame me for being mad. One suggested that I shoot the wedding for my mother, but if my sister wants any of the prints, make her pay for them.
Message edited by author 2006-02-28 19:10:21. |
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02/28/2006 07:19:04 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by Di:
Try puttign her in some of the photos that you are taking.. |
Originally posted by printer4u:
She doesn;t like to be in anu pictures. Whenever I take a photo that includes her she asks me to delete it..and i respectfully do. |
Sounds very familiar! Except the part about deleting them. I have quite the "Hands in front of face" and "Very angry wife look" collections. :( |
Don't delete these shots unless they are obviously unflattering. This is her insecurity speaking. It seems to me your wife has low self esteme and is looking to you to boost it. Tell her you would like to take some shots of her and give her time to get ready ( make sure she's wearing something she feels good in, she's fixed her hair etc. ) If she wants to wait till she's been to the hair dressers, bought a new outfit, whatever so be it. If she feels ugly in photos she won't be suportive of photography. When you've done the shoot let her choose the one she likes best and put it in a frame on your wall. Let her know it's not all about the perfect sunset or lake shot, it's about her too. Make her feel she is worth photographing. She probably won't co operate at first but if you gently persist and repeatedly tell her she is beautiful and worth photographing I think she will eventualy feel alot better about herself and your photography. When women put their hands in front of their face in a shot they are saying " I'm too ugly to photograph", when you give up or delete it you are confirming that fear.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck with problem, I hope you can both feel better soon. |
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02/28/2006 07:24:31 PM · #50 |
maybe you should shoot the wedding in a totally different way than you nornally would. use a holga. shoot only pj shots and candids and nothing posed (let the crummy photog do those).
shoot it in all b&w film, color slide and dont do digital. i say try something different. i always shoot b&w film and digital at weddings and more of the film prints seem to get oredered.
have some fun stretching yourself since there really isnt any pressure on you.
just a thot.
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