Dont run from the cops...... - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

02/10/2006 06:10:31 PM · #76

I think a good solution is the PD get some BlackHawk helicopters with missles. You know those missles are real smart now. They run, KAPOW!! Missle in your drivers window and your car is the only one hit. After one or two of those, the running would stop.

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

02/10/2006 06:14:01 PM · #77

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Originally posted by Riponlady:

The trouble is that in chasing someone the police are pushing them to drive in exceedingly dangerous manners and that endangers every other innocent driver who happens to get in the way. Or to drive at excessive speeds down residential streets. There are a variety of methods of stopping them or following them that don't involve high speeds.
P

Why don't you don't you elaborate on some of those methods? I'm intrigued.

I was thinking of "stingers" and following using helicopters to observe. Also road blocks both static and moving.
P

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

02/10/2006 06:18:55 PM · #78

yeah....every department has the use of an helicopter...please! Road blocks huh...moving ones...if the bad guy is speeding away...don't the good guys have to drive faster to set the rolling block up? Maybe the bad guys in your area will slow down to let the cops catch up.

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

02/10/2006 06:23:09 PM · #79

Enter Big Brother.

A few years back, I was a board member of a subsidiary of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). I had the priveledge of sitting on a national board that was trying to get direction and implementation of automotive standards concerning the second-generation of the on-board diagnostic system and how it related to the vehicles emissions systems testing. Arguements were made about how vehicles no longer needed emissions testing, as the self-diagnostic systems on-board the vehicle were so good that if the vehicle were to emit higher pollutants than allowed, the check engine light would come on (true actually).
Well now we have emissions testing facilities that will be out of work.
Vehicles could now drive along all day long, week after week, month after month, polluting, light on and who cares.

Enter Big Brother.

It was actually proposed that the States would have remote sensing systems that could query a vehicle and tell if the check engine was on (bi-directional communications), and could actually command the vehicle to shut off. That went over real well - little old lady driving on a remote section of road, forgot to put her gas cap on tight enough (happens a lot) and the check engine light comes on (it will by the way) and Big Brother shuts her car off, and something happens to her like she getting mugged, killed, dies of exposure, etc. etc. etc.
That idea went in the trash about as fast as it was proposed.

Remote sensing is coming/happening, and will query a vehicle, send notice by mail to get it inspected/repaired - no problem, except that there is now an invasion of privacy issue. The recemmendation is to allow the vehicle's operator/owner to turn off the communication feature and maintain their privacy. If a vehicle gets queried and there is no communication, the operator could face a suspension of their priveledges (driving isn't a right).

How does this novel apply?

Well in order to effectively combat a fleeing vehicle, law enforcement needs to have the ability to microwave (or whatever) the vehicle and have it's electronics all but shut down the vehicle's engine (shutting it off completely could be a safety hazard to them or others as a loss of power steering/brakes would happen, and that would be a whole new lawsuit game) allowing the vehicle limited operation of say 25% of it's capability. Well, here again, there is the whole privacy issue, and seems for every possibility, someone out there will figure out a way to prevent Big Brother from interfering, or start an epidemic of yet more lawsuits to tie up the legal system.

Chase em and someone gets hurt, they are in the wrong.
Let em go and they are in the wrong again.

I feel for the Law - they can't win no matter what.

Message edited by author 2006-02-10 18:26:52.

james_so

Canon EOS 77D

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Canon

02/10/2006 06:23:11 PM · #80

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

last time I heard radio signals travelled faster than bad guys...

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

02/10/2006 06:27:21 PM · #81

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Usually the police have radios( at least they do over here) and they use them to radio ahead to put both moving and static roadblocks in place. Helicopters are usually available if required by British police. And do you know what stingers are?
Police chases in this country often are called off rather than endanger the safety of others, There are exceptions of course but there has been a great deal of bad publicity when youngsters have been forced into a situation when they heve crashed or when innocent civilians have been injured due to chases.
Hope this reply has avoided sarcasm!
P

02/10/2006 06:27:36 PM · #82

Originally posted by james_so:

Well since radio technology ha evolved that far...guess the bad guys might as well not even run huh? Maybe only good guys know that radio waves are the fast, cause it sure seems like the bad guys keep fleeing in a wreckless manner.

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Canon

02/10/2006 06:29:41 PM · #83

Originally posted by Riponlady:

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:
yeah....every department has the use of an helicopter...please! Road blocks huh...moving ones...if the bad guy is speeding away...don't the good guys have to drive faster to set the rolling block up? Maybe the bad guys in your area will slow down to let the cops catch up.

Usually the police have radios( at least they do over here) and they use them to radio ahead to put both moving and static roadblocks in place. Helicopters are usually available if required by British police. And do you know what stingers are?
Police chases in this country often are called off rather than endanger the safety of others, There are exceptions of course but there has been a great deal of bad publicity when youngsters have been forced into a situation when they heve crashed or when innocent civilians have been injured due to chases.
Hope this reply has avoided sarcasm!
P

Road blocks are useless in Pennsylvania. In order to have a legal road block, police must leave ample room for the suspect to get by. You can't just set a tractor trailer across the road and hope the bad guy stops.

And who says that chases only happen on a highway...most chases last only a few miles...how are you going to get a chopper in the air and to your location before the bad guys bail and start running?

Message edited by author 2006-02-10 18:31:26.

james_so

Canon EOS 77D

02/10/2006 06:30:21 PM · #84

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Originally posted by james_so:

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:
yeah....every department has the use of an helicopter...please! Road blocks huh...moving ones...if the bad guy is speeding away...don't the good guys have to drive faster to set the rolling block up? Maybe the bad guys in your area will slow down to let the cops catch up.

last time I heard radio signals travelled faster than bad guys...

Well since radio technology ha evolved that far...guess the bad guys might as well not even run huh? Maybe only good guys know that radio waves are the fast, cause it sure seems like the bad guys keep fleeing in a wreckless manner.

Fleeing and getting caught yes.. maybe they're not so sharp after all. duh.

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

02/10/2006 06:32:04 PM · #85

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

That's why moving road blocks are good.
P

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Canon

02/10/2006 06:34:28 PM · #86

Originally posted by Riponlady:

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Road blocks are useless in Pennsylvania. In order to have a legal road block, police must leave ample room for the suspect to get by. You can't just set a tractor trailer across the road and hope the bad guy stops.

That's why moving road blocks are good.
P

Well in all your law enforcement experience...explain to me how you set up a moving road block on a two lane road. What are you going to do about the oncoming traffic. How are you going to co-ordintate this tactic when most chases are over in a few minutes?

james_so

Canon EOS 77D

02/10/2006 06:40:33 PM · #87

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Originally posted by Riponlady:

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Road blocks are useless in Pennsylvania. In order to have a legal road block, police must leave ample room for the suspect to get by. You can't just set a tractor trailer across the road and hope the bad guy stops.

That's why moving road blocks are good.
P

Well in all your law enforcement experience...explain to me how you set up a moving road block on a two lane road. What are you going to do about the oncoming traffic. How are you going to co-ordintate this tactic when most chases are over in a few minutes?

If they're over in a few minutes why would you need to? :P

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

02/10/2006 06:41:22 PM · #88

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Oh stop being so aggressive! I offered up some ideas as I think chases can be dangerous - I don't need your sarcasm tonight ,thank you!

Obviously I was talking about motorway chases as in the video for moving blocks. Stingers could be used in other situations. Have you any ideas or do you think there should be 100mph chases each time through and around innocent drivers?
P

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

02/10/2006 06:51:04 PM · #89

First of all...there was no sarcasm. Im sure you meant well with your suggestions. I can tell you from real life experience, they would not work. Chases do not always happen on a freeway. The very rarely last more than a few minutes. Police departments do not all have helicopters at their disposal. Back up officers could be miles away in small towns.

You have to use common sense when in a pursuit. If the person being pursued is a threat to society, you have to do what ever means possible to stop them.

Police are extensively trained in the area of pursuits. The majority of the officers make the right decision. Sometimes things go wrong. You have to aggresively fight crime. If you don't...you are wasting time.

nsbca7

02/10/2006 06:51:45 PM · #90

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

With hundreds of miles of straight roads and highways very few chases are over in a few minutes down here. And as far as setting up the moving roadblocks ahead of the driver, that's where those radios, remember the radios? that's where the radios come in.

Not every place in this world is setup like Appalachia Pennsylvania. Some of police departments do have radios.

02/10/2006 06:53:47 PM · #91

Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Originally posted by Riponlady:

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Road blocks are useless in Pennsylvania. In order to have a legal road block, police must leave ample room for the suspect to get by. You can't just set a tractor trailer across the road and hope the bad guy stops.

That's why moving road blocks are good.
P

Well in all your law enforcement experience...explain to me how you set up a moving road block on a two lane road. What are you going to do about the oncoming traffic. How are you going to co-ordintate this tactic when most chases are over in a few minutes?

With hundreds of miles of straight roads and highways very few chases are over in a few minutes down here. And as far as setting up the moving roadblocks ahead of the driver, that's where those radios, remember the radios? that's where the radios come in.

Not every place in this world is setup like Appalachia Pennsylvania. Some of police departments do have radios.

Oh yeah...forgot Pittsburgh has a lot of straight roads. I mean Pittsburgh metro area has TONS of WIDE OPEN roads.

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

02/10/2006 06:58:30 PM · #92

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Obviously pursuits in the UK are different than where you are and our police work differently - oh yes BTW I do know a little bit about this - my brother is a class A1 police driver, trained in pursuit and in defensive driving as a bodyguard in the diplomatic squad.
P

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

02/10/2006 07:01:18 PM · #93

Originally posted by Riponlady:

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:
First of all...there was no sarcasm. Im sure you meant well with your suggestions. I can tell you from real life experience, they would not work. Chases do not always happen on a freeway. The very rarely last more than a few minutes. Police departments do not all have helicopters at their disposal. Back up officers could be miles away in small towns.

You have to use common sense when in a pursuit. If the person being pursued is a threat to society, you have to do what ever means possible to stop them.

Police are extensively trained in the area of pursuits. The majority of the officers make the right decision. Sometimes things go wrong. You have to aggresively fight crime. If you don't...you are wasting time.

Obviously pursuits in the UK are different than where you are and our police work differently - oh yes BTW I do know a little bit about this - my brother is a class A1 police driver, trained in pursuit and in defensive driving as a bodyguard in the diplomatic squad.
P

All police officers in PA go thru pursuit driving, defensive driving and perceptual driving training.

nsbca7

02/10/2006 07:03:02 PM · #94

Originally posted by BADDBOYY21:

Oh yeah...forgot Pittsburgh has a lot of straight roads. I mean Pittsburgh metro area has TONS of WIDE OPEN roads.

Well I can say with attitudes like yours and your fellow officers, kidding or not:

Originally posted by jtf6agent:

Just so we are clear here on DPChallenge. If you ever have the chance to meet me on duty and I tell you to stop and put your hands up Please do it. I don't like shooting people it's messy and it really hurts. I would rather beat you with my Asp. So if I say STOP and put your hands up I wanna hear you say LIKE THIS as you are doing it.

I can see where some people, stupid as they may be, would rather try and outrun the police then be caught for a minor infraction.