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02/05/2006 02:19:34 AM · #1 |
As I was voting tonight I was thinking about how I decide what scores to give. I don't really have any defined personal standards. I just look at a picture and a score comes to mind. So I tried to put into words some of the thoughts I have when I decide on a score for a particular shot. This is what I came up with. This is pretty much how I vote.
1 - What the... this has to be a joke. Surely nobody could believe this has any value.
2 - Looks like somebody accidently tripped the shutter.
3 - It looks like an intentional capture, just not sure if they know anything about their camera.
4 - Looks like they are on the right track, just very boring, drab, mundane... nice try :)
5 - Not bad. Good effort. Needs some work on the basics still. Yet almost anyone could've taken a shot like this.
6 - Pretty nice, worth keeping, interesting, still could use some fine tuning, color balance, crop, dodge and burn maybe, overall nice.
7 - Very good, good processing (needs very little if any additional post processing), very interesting, good composure and perspective.
8 - Great shot as far as processing, composure, lighting, dof, all aspects of camera usage. Also very intriguing. Definitely framable.
9 - Excellent in all aspects of photography, has great depth of meaning, feeling, story, drama etc. Should be in a gallery or published somewhere.
10 - It just doesn't get any better than this. When "9" just isn't good enough. You can not find anything that needs improvement. You just look in awe and wonder "how this could be?" and you know that everyone else is thinking the same thing.
I left out any reference regarding meeting the challenge because it's too subjective to me and doesn't really have much to do with the image quality. |
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02/05/2006 02:44:58 AM · #2 |
So no image that lacks "great depth of meaning" can score higher than an "8" with you, eh?
R.
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02/05/2006 02:52:47 AM · #3 |
| why did u say anything bear, he could have killed it own his own :-) |
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02/05/2006 03:02:40 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
So no image that lacks "great depth of meaning" can score higher than an "8" with you, eh?
R. |
none of this is easy to define. Probably why I hadn't tried to before. I guess I probably shouldn't have. |
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02/05/2006 03:09:38 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by briantammy:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
So no image that lacks "great depth of meaning" can score higher than an "8" with you, eh?
R. |
none of this is easy to define. Probably why I hadn't tried to before. I guess I probably shouldn't have. |
No, that's OK, it's interesting. You're perfectly entitled to your own, singular approach. I was just curious about that. It's as valid as anything else, if that's how you feel. I'd presume that you are more moved by, let's say, Dorothea Lange's migrant workers than Ansel Adams' landscapes, and that's absolutely OK :-)
I'm sorry if I seemed to be putting you down in any way; it was just my gut reaction when I saw that. We're not really that far apart in how we approach things on the lower end of the scale, but personally I don't "require" meaning when I judge images, although I'm certainly willing to accept it and admire it when I find it.
Then again, I suspect most people would think my own images are pretty cold and distant...
Robt.
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02/05/2006 03:17:42 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by briantammy:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
So no image that lacks "great depth of meaning" can score higher than an "8" with you, eh?
R. |
none of this is easy to define. Probably why I hadn't tried to before. I guess I probably shouldn't have. |
No, that's OK, it's interesting. You're perfectly entitled to your own, singular approach. I was just curious about that. It's as valid as anything else, if that's how you feel. I'd presume that you are more moved by, let's say, Dorothea Lange's migrant workers than Ansel Adams' landscapes, and that's absolutely OK :-)
I'm sorry if I seemed to be putting you down in any way; it was just my gut reaction when I saw that. We're not really that far apart in how we approach things on the lower end of the scale, but personally I don't "require" meaning when I judge images, although I'm certainly willing to accept it and admire it when I find it.
Then again, I suspect most people would think my own images are pretty cold and distant...
Robt. |
thanks.
I do see your pics as distant, yet still with meaning and feeling, reflective and peaceful.
Message edited by author 2006-02-05 03:18:17. |
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02/05/2006 05:02:48 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by briantammy:
I left out any reference regarding meeting the challenge because it's too subjective to me and doesn't really have much to do with the image quality. |
Does that mean I should leave out any reference to the Challenge in my picture? Gosh, that would make a whole lot of sense ... not!
What the hell is the point in us shooting for a challenge, if people like you completely ignore it. Sheesh, I'm just about to give up on this place. What a waste of effort and time if this is the garbage we have to deal with.
Brett |
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02/05/2006 06:28:11 AM · #8 |
People are free to vote as they wish. I appreciate that briantammy has put a fair amount of thought into his approach to it. However, I think everyone should give some weight to the meeting-the-topic element of entries. How much weight you give it is your own business but totally ignoring it goes against this sentence in the rules:
"While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly."
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02/05/2006 08:14:37 AM · #9 |
I might start voting only 1's or 10's, according to whether or not the shot meets the challenge in some non title-shoehorned way.
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02/05/2006 11:02:50 AM · #10 |
I used to be harder on voting but....I was reminded in the last Tribute" challenge...there are a lot of ways to look at a photo.
You know..think about it...an average score is in the fives but...have a look at your "average scoring" photos. If you say "an average photo is a photo anybody could have taken" look at the photos you voted a 5 on...in say..the last 5 challenges.
Now..try to duplicate some of them. I bet it isn't as easy as you thought on more than a few of them.
Maybe the perspective is unusual, the location is unique, the subject is difficult to capture, the post processing is a bit advanced, the play between dark and light has been thought about or the color is used for effect.
All of those things are more than the "average photographer" usually does.
I did an experiment this morning. I gave my daughter (An english major at college with no photographic training) my camera and a photo assignment. Go take a picture of a rose that we had in a vase. No other instructions. The only limitations, she could not touch the flower, vase or in any way move the subject.
Then I went and took the same rose and did my thing. I didn't bring in special lighting or do some other tricks. As a matter of fact...I tried to take the shot from a similar angle to see what would happen.
I also helped my daughter with some basic Post Processing. She directed me how she wanted the crop, color and basic levels. Just to help her with basic stuff.
Now, I would expect the results to be that I might get a better shot. Why? Experience mostly. But mainly..I LOVE PHOTOGRAPHY! My Daughter? Ehhhhhh. It's a means to record stuff...like a dvd burner for images. But she is smart, takes pride in anything she tries to do and has watched me on occasion so knows a little about composing.
We didn't spend a lot of time....Each of us took about 5 photos each.
Afterward......When I looked at the shots her's were pretty good. Far better than the average person and only lacking experience.
My Photo? Well, I thouhgt, why not let you be the judge!
Both photos are below..mine and my daughters..which one is which?
 
I bet neither one would score over a 5.
So...my point? Maybe we all are a bit too critical at times.
Message edited by author 2006-02-05 11:11:16. |
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02/05/2006 12:01:58 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Then again, I suspect most people would think my own images are pretty cold and distant...
Robt. |
Cold only because of the water that you like to use as a subject since being from the baren NW territories, BRRRRR.
Distant only becuse of the thought that comes to me when I see your work..."How in the hell am I going to get that skiff back?"
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02/06/2006 11:26:06 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by hokie:
I bet neither one would score over a 5.
So...my point? Maybe we all are a bit too critical at times. |
You are correct in saying that we are too critical at times. But perhaps that is balanced out some by those among us who rarely or never give a vote on 1, 2 or 3. I'm sure you've seen their posts in the forums.
My bet is that the first shot is yours, the more close-up of the two. I might give it a six and the other a four because I like sharp images, but that's just me.
At least you both met the topic very well so no deduction there, LOL.
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02/06/2006 11:52:37 AM · #13 |
Like, here's how I vote, OK? Like, If I, like, rilly rilly like something, like, it's like as good as like, Christina's new CD, I'll like, give it like a 10. I'll be like, you go photographer! You, like, brung it! Sassed the place up!
If something is, like, totally gross and icky and skanky, like that bitch Kelly Radinski in 3rd period who I saw looking at my boyfriend last year and I was, like, snap! oh no you di'int! I'll like totally rip on it and, like, give that dirty piece a 1, yo.
If it's, like, somewhere in the middle, like, something that doesn't totally suck but is, like, nowhere near perfect - ya know, kinda like some, like, stage of Britney after Kevin, I''ll, like, give it one of those other numbers.
OK girls. Peace out, I gotta, like, hit the mall.
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02/06/2006 12:42:05 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
Like, here's how I vote, OK? Like, If I, like, rilly rilly like something, like, it's like as good as like, Christina's new CD, I'll like, give it like a 10. I'll be like, you go photographer! You, like, brung it! Sassed the place up!
If something is, like, totally gross and icky and skanky, like that bitch Kelly Radinski in 3rd period who I saw looking at my boyfriend last year and I was, like, snap! oh no you di'int! I'll like totally rip on it and, like, give that dirty piece a 1, yo.
If it's, like, somewhere in the middle, like, something that doesn't totally suck but is, like, nowhere near perfect - ya know, kinda like some, like, stage of Britney after Kevin, I''ll, like, give it one of those other numbers.
OK girls. Peace out, I gotta, like, hit the mall. |
You have problems. :OP Like, fershure, totally mental. |
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02/06/2006 01:19:28 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by briantammy:
I left out any reference regarding meeting the challenge because it's too subjective to me and doesn't really have much to do with the image quality. |
I find this very disturbing as well. The challenge requirements are to be given the utmost consideration when voting (says so in the rules). This type of voting completely undermines the whole purpose and demonstrates a complete lack of respect. |
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02/06/2006 01:29:34 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by briantammy:
I left out any reference regarding meeting the challenge because it's too subjective to me and doesn't really have much to do with the image quality. |
I find this very disturbing as well. The challenge requirements are to be given the utmost consideration when voting (says so in the rules). This type of voting completely undermines the whole purpose and demonstrates a complete lack of respect. |
He probably even regrets trying to put this into words, maybe he just meant that he didnt write it down because its too hard to put it into words and is subjective. I agree with him on most of his scale and of course I have my own requirements and scores for meeting challenges, wont post it because I dont need validation of my voting process :). The main difference is that for me an image does have to move me to give it a 10, but I do seem to give out quite a few 10's. |
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02/06/2006 04:02:58 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by briantammy:
I left out any reference regarding meeting the challenge because it's too subjective to me and doesn't really have much to do with the image quality. |
I find this very disturbing as well. The challenge requirements are to be given the utmost consideration when voting (says so in the rules). This type of voting completely undermines the whole purpose and demonstrates a complete lack of respect. |
I'm quite sure Brian didn't mean to say he disregards the challenge topic when voting. The way I read it, he is saying "I won't even try to explain how I factor in the challenge topic because that's too subjective to put into words" and I agree with him on that.
R.
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02/06/2006 06:08:39 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by briantammy:
I left out any reference regarding meeting the challenge because it's too subjective to me and doesn't really have much to do with the image quality. |
I find this very disturbing as well. The challenge requirements are to be given the utmost consideration when voting (says so in the rules). This type of voting completely undermines the whole purpose and demonstrates a complete lack of respect. |
Briantammy is correct...
The rule specifically states: "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly."
The keyword here is "asked" and no concrete basis or meaningful guidance whatsover is provided to make that determination, unlike with photographic manipulations. That means briantammy is correct, it IS subjective.
Since it is stated in the form of a request in the rules then briantammy's view is perfectly valid!
His view is further supported by this statement from the rules, "Entries will not be disqualified for misinterpreting or failing to meet the challenge". This clearly indicates that meeting the challenge is of much lesser significance than many other image considerations. Illegal photographic manipulation results in immediate DQ. The quality and integrity of the photograph is therefore of greatest voting importance. After all, there is no button to click for failing to meet the challenge.
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02/06/2006 06:51:58 PM · #19 |
When I first read this post, I thought it sounded very similar to the way I vote, though I tend to give bigger scores more quickly. I think people are getting pretty upset over something that seems to be, in my opinion, relatively trivial.
This is one person's perspective on how they rate pictures. To submit an image on this site, you are basically saying, "Rate my picture". So why get upset by how they approach it? I'm finding that I'm getting slammed for softening my images, so I think I'll stop doing that. It makes sense to me to try different things, listen to others' views and try to learn to produce an image that appeals to the majority.
Also, in briantammy's post, they said that there is an adjustment for meeting the challenge. I read this as a score being determined by "on topic"-ness and image quality, which is certainly how I vote as well. Thanks for sharing, briantammy.
âNever raise your hand to your children. It leaves your midsection unprotected.â
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02/06/2006 07:01:54 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by briantammy:
I left out any reference regarding meeting the challenge because it's too subjective to me and doesn't really have much to do with the image quality. |
I find this very disturbing as well. The challenge requirements are to be given the utmost consideration when voting (says so in the rules). This type of voting completely undermines the whole purpose and demonstrates a complete lack of respect. |
I'm quite sure Brian didn't mean to say he disregards the challenge topic when voting. The way I read it, he is saying "I won't even try to explain how I factor in the challenge topic because that's too subjective to put into words" and I agree with him on that.
R. |
thank you Bear, that's it exactly. |
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02/06/2006 07:12:59 PM · #21 |
brian
Plenty of technical word but what about what this is all about how you see the picture and try to think what the photographer was trying to express at the moment he took the picture
Ice |
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02/06/2006 07:42:26 PM · #22 |
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02/06/2006 08:18:31 PM · #23 |
I have a new strategy for voting. Wait long enough and you don't have to vote as many to vote 100%.
Freestudy is now at 619. If I recall correctly it started at 636 or thereabouts. |
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02/06/2006 08:25:13 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by IceRock:
brian
Plenty of technical word but what about what this is all about how you see the picture and try to think what the photographer was trying to express at the moment he took the picture
Ice |
I don't understand what you are saying or asking.
brian |
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02/06/2006 08:40:25 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by isonaj:
... listen to others' views and try to learn to produce an image that appeals to the majority. |
When I see what appeals to the many, this would be a paralyzing thought.
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