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01/25/2006 07:06:39 PM · #1 |
I read the ongoing saga of discontent with 'this and that' and it saddens me. I came to this site and as it is, without fancy tricks and underhandedness I have learned and improved. I gained respect for the family of this site and an admiration for the SC. It is crucifying me to see how these SC members get knocked around.
My suggestion is simple, as per the other thread but to make it more official:
Let's have 3 categories, the first 2 as is at present no change. Category 3 will be the "Free-For-All-Brawl" and will cost the member a $100 per year. No rules. Just a theme. No Descriptions. No DQs. No DNMC. No SC involvement unless it is against the culture and norms of the group etc. |
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01/25/2006 07:17:19 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by gibun:
I read the ongoing saga of discontent with 'this and that' and it saddens me. I came to this site and as it is, without fancy tricks and underhandedness I have learned and improved. I gained respect for the family of this site and an admiration for the SC. It is crucifying me to see how these SC members get knocked around.
My suggestion is simple, as per the other thread but to make it more official:
Let's have 3 categories, the first 2 as is at present no change. Category 3 will be the "Free-For-All-Brawl" and will cost the member a $100 per year. No rules. Just a theme. No Descriptions. No DQs. No DNMC. No SC involvement unless it is against the culture and norms of the group etc. |
Category 3 is already ran at Better Photos very well and everyone seems friendly and happy ... and there are prises too! |
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01/25/2006 07:18:43 PM · #3 |
I say if you wanna enter one of those kinds of contest go to a different site like worth100.com or something.
It would destroy the intregity that DPC has...
That's the reason I come to this site..for photography, not digital art. I say no to the third category...
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01/25/2006 07:20:43 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by gibun:
I read the ongoing saga of discontent with 'this and that' and it saddens me. I came to this site and as it is, without fancy tricks and underhandedness I have learned and improved. I gained respect for the family of this site and an admiration for the SC. It is crucifying me to see how these SC members get knocked around.
My suggestion is simple, as per the other thread but to make it more official:
Let's have 3 categories, the first 2 as is at present no change. Category 3 will be the "Free-For-All-Brawl" and will cost the member a $100 per year. No rules. Just a theme. No Descriptions. No DQs. No DNMC. No SC involvement unless it is against the culture and norms of the group etc. |
Doc,
with all due respect, that's not the problem we're facing; the current issue that is galvanizing everyone is that RAW processing is allowing advanced results in the basic challenges. It's the distinction between basic and advanced that's in jeaopardy, not some hypothetical desire to push advanced further than it already is.
R. |
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01/25/2006 07:25:41 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by gibun:
It is crucifying me to see how these SC members get knocked around. |
They are not. The rules are being questioned not the SC.
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01/25/2006 07:29:58 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by gibun:
Category 3 will be the "Free-For-All-Brawl" and will cost the member a $100 per year. |
In that discussion there was no demand for a 'no-rules' category. Better defined rules is the aim.
And when I say 'make it all advanced editing' it is just that, advanced editing like it is now. I believe that I have always said that. Even when we were discussing the rules (nov 2003) and started to try advanced editing (dec 2003).
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01/25/2006 08:13:06 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Originally posted by gibun:
Category 3 will be the "Free-For-All-Brawl" and will cost the member a $100 per year. |
In that discussion there was no demand for a 'no-rules' category. Better defined rules is the aim.
And when I say 'make it all advanced editing' it is just that, advanced editing like it is now. I believe that I have always said that. Even when we were discussing the rules (nov 2003) and started to try advanced editing (dec 2003). |
And there were people then that predicted the kinds of dilemma we are facing now. As stare_at_the_sun says, people came to this site for photography, not for digital art. I say let's go back to all Basic rules challenges and let the digital artists and photoshop gurus migrate to other sites that suit their interests better. I am sick and tired of their attempts to change this site to fit their agenda. They will never be satisfied so why should we continue to try to appease them?
;)
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01/25/2006 08:32:29 PM · #8 |
To all,
Just a heads-up that we are actively discussing and pursuing solutions to the RAW processing dilemma. I can pretty much guarantee that the rules will be clarified, soon, with respect to RAW processing.
The idea of an "uber-advanced" category had been advanced previously, as Doc noted; it has in fact been discussed. At this time there is no clear indicaton as to whether it might happen; in my *personal* opinion, it's a good idea, though perhaps not scoped quite as broadly as what Doc suggests.
Doc,
You are a most gracious, positive contributor to DPC; thank you for your kind words of support for the SC during what has been a very busy, frustrating time for us recently.
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01/25/2006 08:53:29 PM · #9 |
I think a third tier in one way or another would be great. I would not enter because my PS skills are poor.
However, I would pay for it to be able to vote on the photos. |
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01/25/2006 09:17:41 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by stare_at_the_sun:
I say if you wanna enter one of those kinds of contest go to a different site like worth100.com or something.
It would destroy the intregity that DPC has...
That's the reason I come to this site..for photography, not digital art. I say no to the third category... |
Of course, send photographers away from this community to another community instead of building something.
I don't understand. We can have 5 or 6 challenges ran concurrently at times with all basically the same rules but if we can't add a legitimate third category that would include a photo like this.
Just because a photographer would like a little more freedom with filters or dodging and burning doesn't make DP Challenge a digital art site and to imply that photographic talent like the above would hurt the sites integrity...I just don't get it. :-/ |
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01/25/2006 09:28:23 PM · #11 |
I already posted my feelings on this in this thread but they're still pretty much the same.
I'd like to see a third tier with much more relaxed restrictions but one that would still require the end result to resemble a photo. I'm not interested in seeing your daughter's head pasted on Godzillas body skateboarding off the roof of your barn. I think we can extend our rules quite a bit before we hit digital art. I'd hate to have dpc be worth1000two.com |
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01/25/2006 09:31:08 PM · #12 |
It does not matter how many categories we have there will always be people who will push the rules to the limit, that has been going on here all the time and it keeps SC on their toes to adapt with every change in technology and every new circumstance that comes up.
Some members call for no editing at all in basic editing and some call for more freedom in the advanced editing, what we really need is for everyone to abide by the rules and to not keep trying to circumnavigate the rules.
If your not sure if your editing is legal ask the question before you enter.
I for one really enjoy the challenge of trying to get a presentable image using just basic editing likewise I really enjoy being able to use advanced editing rules in member challenges.
In the case of the latest DQ and RAW editing I'm sure SC will come up with something that we can abide by or maybe put ideas to a poll, there is no need for wholesale changes. While I'm at it I'm very annoyed that a DQ has been found due to a deliberate exif data tampering, this is further kudos to the SC for catching the person out I only hope now that there is a fitting punishment. |
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01/25/2006 09:31:43 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by mk:
I'm not interested in seeing your daughter's head pasted on Godzillas body skateboarding off the roof of your barn. |
What if she was rollerblading? ;-P
(I agree BTW) |
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01/25/2006 09:40:35 PM · #14 |
Yeah, since worth1000 already exists, why copy it here?
Th problem really is the blurring of the lines, and what is going on here is traditional photography instead of a massive PS editing contest.
If you want to do that, there is already a well established outlet for those talents. DPC is not the place for that, because it's no longer at all about photography at that point.
One suggestion though (if a third category is made available at some point), multi image compositions, not simulating something that was not there. Meaning tryptich/other and stitched compositions or panorama's. |
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01/25/2006 09:42:44 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by mk:
I'd like to see a third tier with much more relaxed restrictions but one that would still require the end result to resemble a photo. I'm not interested in seeing your daughter's head pasted on Godzillas body skateboarding off the roof of your barn. I think we can extend our rules quite a bit before we hit digital art. I'd hate to have dpc be worth1000two.com |
One look at Better Photo.com tells me we have a lot of room to manuever before before getting to a digital art site.
Many people may say "Well, if you like Better Photo.com, go there", I guess implying that it is all or nothing. I simply say, you put time into a community like DP Challenge and you like the general format..the layout of the site and the interaction that occurs. All some photographers want is the ability to explore even more photographic style without abandoning a site like DP Challenge. Many of us work a lot of hours and have lots of other photographic interests...one website is all many of us have time for when you are online or participating in contests.
Anyway...I guess I have beat this drum long enough :-/ |
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01/25/2006 09:44:58 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Originally posted by mk:
I'd like to see a third tier with much more relaxed restrictions but one that would still require the end result to resemble a photo. I'm not interested in seeing your daughter's head pasted on Godzillas body skateboarding off the roof of your barn. I think we can extend our rules quite a bit before we hit digital art. I'd hate to have dpc be worth1000two.com |
One look at Better Photo.com tells me we have a lot of room to manuever before before getting to a digital art site.
Many people may say "Well, if you like Better Photo.com, go there", I guess implying that it is all or nothing. I simply say, you put time into a community like DP Challenge and you like the general format..the layout of the site and the interaction that occurs. All some photographers want is the ability to explore even more photographic style without abandoning a site like DP Challenge. Many of us work a lot of hours and have lots of other photographic interests...one website is all many of us have time for when you are online or participating in contests.
Anyway...I guess I have beat this drum long enough :-/ |
I'm going to assume you quoted me to point out that you agree with me since that was essentially what I was saying. :) |
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01/25/2006 09:52:48 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by my signature:
you take a picture.
you look at it on your monitor.
you ask, "what do i have to do to this to make this presentable?"
you ask, "what do i have to do to this to make it WOW!!!
you do whatever, then you compare the original to the result.
if they hardly bear a resemblance to each other, you've probably done TOO MUCH |
peter, while i sympathize with your sentiments, i have to agree with harvey on this. yes, it would be nice to keep the community a warm and happy place, but, in reality, this site is what it is: a photography site. it is a great place to start, to learn, to gauge where you are, the push yourself, to meet people, to hang out, to chill out, to whatever. but, at the end of the day, it's about photography. and, when someone has had their fill of what this site has to offer in terms of photography, then it's time for them to move on. that doesn't mean that you automatically lose touch with those you've come to know and love--it just means that they need to push themselves in a direction that is different than what's here, and that you'll have to find another means to keep up with them.
yes, please clarify the rules so that there won't be as much teeth-gnashing, but don't change the basic mechanics of the site. as is, it provides a great means to establish a baseline for developing your photography. there are too, too many people out there who are standing on the shoulders of giants without a clue as to what came before them. at least here, with basic editing and a commitment to integrity, you can learn to build a foundation of photographic experience that will allow you to truly take advantage of more sophisticated and advanced tools and techniques.
hokie, i know what you mean about not having the time to get involved in multiple sites that cater to different areas. however, i wouldn't want dpc to try to become one-size-fits-all, just to make it convenient for me. i think that would really take it down more than a few notches. |
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01/25/2006 09:53:26 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by mk:
I'm going to assume you quoted me to point out that you agree with me since that was essentially what I was saying. :) |
I would say ..yeah.
BetterPhoto.com seems to have maintained an extremely high quality while allowing a very diverse set of photographic talents to flourish.
What would make DP Challenge different from a BetterPhoto is our interaction, the way we vote and the way photographers here share their techniques and ideas.
I could try spending more time at a Better photo...and I am sure in time, it would feel as comfortable as DP Challenge only different. Their talent level is high there too and they have interesting things to participate in it's just I like concentrating what online photographic energy I have to spend on one site and my investment has been here :-)
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01/25/2006 10:02:47 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by hokie:
One look at Better Photo.com tells me we have a lot of room to manuever before before getting to a digital art site.
Many people may say "Well, if you like Better Photo.com, go there", I guess implying that it is all or nothing. I simply say, you put time into a community like DP Challenge and you like the general format..the layout of the site and the interaction that occurs. All some photographers want is the ability to explore even more photographic style without abandoning a site like DP Challenge. Many of us work a lot of hours and have lots of other photographic interests...one website is all many of us have time for when you are online or participating in contests.
Anyway...I guess I have beat this drum long enough :-/ |
How far should we go to satisify these exploring photographers? We already added the Advanced ruleset for them. But that didn't satisify their need to explore. I fear they will not be satisified until dpc becomes worth1000, or BetterPhoto.com, or deviantart.com. A lot of us have quite a bit invested in this community, as you do, and don't want to see it go that route. Must we always continue to move in that direction? or can we sometimes move the other way?
And don't forget about all the newbies who come here looking for a place where they have a chance to compete and learn before they are adept at editing. They don't get heard very much in forum discussions like this one, but they are important to the success of the site.
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01/25/2006 10:07:52 PM · #20 |
It's ironic that this thread coincides with the Fantasy Challenge, where lots of people clearly managed to create fantastically imaginative images within the bounds of regular advanced editing.
I do think we need a 3rd category, not so much to change the editing rules but to re-introduce something like the Master Class challenges. I think that concept wasn't successful first time around because the details hadn't been ironed out, but it's still a great concept. The single most annoying thing about voting is hitting a long stretch of images that just don't show any creative spark whatsoever. A Master Class challenge or something like it is less likely to have that problem.
In the end, what I'd really like to see is more encouragement for photographers to flex their creative muscles. I guess allowing digital art would do it for some people, but that doesn't mean they deserve their own category anymore than people who prefer to shoot high-key or soft-focus. By all means, have the occasional challenge allowing digital art, but there's no need to make it a permanent theme. |
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01/25/2006 10:16:21 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
How far should we go to satisify these exploring photographers? We already added the Advanced ruleset for them. But that didn't satisify their need to explore. I fear they will not be satisified until dpc becomes worth1000, or BetterPhoto.com, or deviantart.com. A lot of us have quite a bit invested in this community, as you do, and don't want to see it go that route. Must we always continue to move in that direction? or can we sometimes move the other way?
And don't forget about all the newbies who come here looking for a place where they have a chance to compete and learn before they are adept at editing. They don't get heard very much in forum discussions like this one, but they are important to the success of the site. |
What I don't understand is this feeling that adding something eliminates something else. You know...I was here near the beginning. I remember the way the site was. And you know, it still offers that beginner digital photographer with their point and shoot the same chance to learn and participate just like 4 years ago.
The difference now is I see people here willing to spend thousands, even tens of thousands of dollars on their photography. I hear people talking about making money with their cameras (never heard much of that before), I see people not only learning complicated programs like Photoshop but also other programs for Raw conversion, sharpening, noise reduction, file handling.
People talk about the incredible hardware, extra harddrives, monitors, etc etc. Heck, I make a good living in the media business and many people make my gear collection look small.
Yet, with all that said, people still come here with point and shoots with fixed lenses and limited knowledge and still get a chance to participate.
I hardly think adding a single category for the most advanced editors will bring this site down. As a matter of fact, I think it is a good way to build a place for even greater growth and interest.
Oh well....I'll turn the patriotic music off and fold the flags back up :-)
Message edited by author 2006-01-25 22:18:41. |
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01/26/2006 03:31:55 AM · #22 |
.
Message edited by author 2006-02-08 10:15:58.
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01/26/2006 03:41:44 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by keegbow:
While I'm at it I'm very annoyed that a DQ has been found due to a deliberate exif data tampering, this is further kudos to the SC for catching the person out I only hope now that there is a fitting punishment. |
Perhaps we could send the offending member to Australia. It worked for the English. |
And what a fine nation those poor English, Irish and American bound convicts made the true home of the free.
You obviously didn't realize that Australians are very proud to have convict heritage so your thinly veiled attempt of antagonism is wasted
A few hours of listening to your gripes would suffice as punishment.
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01/26/2006 05:25:29 AM · #24 |
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Message edited by author 2006-02-08 10:15:45.
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01/26/2006 06:50:00 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by keegbow:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by keegbow:
While I'm at it I'm very annoyed that a DQ has been found due to a deliberate exif data tampering, this is further kudos to the SC for catching the person out I only hope now that there is a fitting punishment. |
Perhaps we could send the offending member to Australia. It worked for the English. |
And what a fine nation those poor English, Irish and American bound convicts made the true home of the free.
You obviously didn't realize that Australians are very proud to have convict heritage so your thinly veiled attempt of antagonism is wasted
A few hours of listening to your gripes would suffice as punishment. |
A happy Australia Day to you too. |
Why thank you, it has been a very joyous day indeed. |
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