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01/18/2006 01:29:09 PM · #51 |
Lo everyone! hey.. a question.. Are humans doing something wild out in the nature not considerd as wildlife? Or dosen't it fit this challenge?
Message edited by author 2006-01-18 13:32:21. |
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01/18/2006 01:36:26 PM · #52 |
I'll jump in again.
For nature photographers natural environment excludes zoos. For them the animal or bird must be living in its natural state and free to roam (and get to you or away from you.) Most nature mags like National Geographic and the like require the photog to submit the original and a statement as to where and how the shot was taken and what manipulation was done. They do not accept anything that alters what the photographer actually saw at the time nor do they normally accept shots from zoo type reserves or zoos. Go to any reputable nature photog̢۪s web site and you will see that any photos taken at such places are clearly labeled as such. They take great pride in the difficulty it entails to capture true wildlife shots.
Now with that said, DPC is not made up of nature photographers. Many people do not have access or the time to spend to capture a natural shot. For some of us that is the attraction that draws us to that end of our art, the hunt and the natural setting. But for most it is not practical so it seems likely that preserves and zoos are included here. Just make sure there is no fence, post, etc showing or â€Â¦Ã¢€Â¦Ã¢€Â¦Ã¢€Â¦..
That is not to say that I would not love to see a purely natural wildlife challenge that specifically excludes zoos and reserves but that would likely limit many who could enter. |
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01/18/2006 02:07:13 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by Krisby:
Lo everyone! hey.. a question.. Are humans doing something wild out in the nature not considerd as wildlife? Or dosen't it fit this challenge? |
only if they are not domesticated. |
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01/18/2006 02:25:20 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by Krisby:
Lo everyone! hey.. a question.. Are humans doing something wild out in the nature not considerd as wildlife? Or dosen't it fit this challenge? |
only if they are not domesticated. |
Edible? This isn't the Donner Party.
Donner, party of four. Donner.
:-|~ |
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01/18/2006 02:28:11 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
I'll jump in again.
For nature photographers natural environment excludes zoos. For them the animal or bird must be living in its natural state and free to roam (and get to you or away from you.) Most nature mags like National Geographic and the like require the photog to submit the original and a statement as to where and how the shot was taken and what manipulation was done. They do not accept anything that alters what the photographer actually saw at the time nor do they normally accept shots from zoo type reserves or zoos. Go to any reputable nature photog̢۪s web site and you will see that any photos taken at such places are clearly labeled as such. They take great pride in the difficulty it entails to capture true wildlife shots.
Now with that said, DPC is not made up of nature photographers. Many people do not have access or the time to spend to capture a natural shot. For some of us that is the attraction that draws us to that end of our art, the hunt and the natural setting. But for most it is not practical so it seems likely that preserves and zoos are included here. Just make sure there is no fence, post, etc showing or â€Â¦Ã¢€Â¦Ã¢€Â¦Ã¢€Â¦..
That is not to say that I would not love to see a purely natural wildlife challenge that specifically excludes zoos and reserves but that would likely limit many who could enter. |
Funny that you use NG as an example. Weren't they the first major publication to use digital manipulation by moving one of the pyramids so their cover looked better?
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01/18/2006 02:31:49 PM · #56 |
Re: "zoos and preserves", it's worth noting that IF you lived in Africa and wanted to photograph "big game" for this challenge, you'd head for your nearest "wildlife preserve" to do it. They are HUGE, no question about it, but they are "preserves". In the USA, there are likewise "nature preserves". Now you got also places like the Wild Animal Park in San Diego, which has a LOT of acreage devoted to creating a natural environment in which the animals roam free. Where are you going to draw the line?
The challenge does not say "in THEIR natural environment", it says in "A" natural environment.
I'm actually more intrigued by the exclusion of fish from the challenge :-) Bummer for any divers we have here with underwater housings...
R. |
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01/18/2006 02:33:55 PM · #57 |
Ok, I'm back on the animal fence again. After reading the Tribute thread, the concensus is it is pretty much an open free study. But that story is on that thread.
Here, I can see that as long as you can appeal to the voters with any animal shot that doesn't "seem" to be in an unnatural environment, you are good to go.
So, it's a choice between an open free study in Tribute, or an animal free study. I much prefer to shoot the animals and take my chances with that shot! :)
So count me in!
Rose |
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01/18/2006 02:42:22 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Ok, I'm back on the animal fence again. After reading the Tribute thread, the concensus is it is pretty much an open free study. But that story is on that thread.
Here, I can see that as long as you can appeal to the voters with any animal shot that doesn't "seem" to be in an unnatural environment, you are good to go.
So, it's a choice between an open free study in Tribute, or an animal free study. I much prefer to shoot the animals and take my chances with that shot! :)
So count me in!
Rose |
Only if you publicly retract your "cheaters" comments, jejejeâ„¢ Just relax and enjoy it, would be my suggestion.
R. |
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01/18/2006 02:46:48 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Ok, I'm back on the animal fence again. After reading the Tribute thread, the concensus is it is pretty much an open free study. But that story is on that thread.
Here, I can see that as long as you can appeal to the voters with any animal shot that doesn't "seem" to be in an unnatural environment, you are good to go.
So, it's a choice between an open free study in Tribute, or an animal free study. I much prefer to shoot the animals and take my chances with that shot! :)
So count me in!
Rose |
Only if you publicly retract your "cheaters" comments, jejejeâ„¢ Just relax and enjoy it, would be my suggestion.
R. |
...and let's not forget that failure to meet the challenge is not grounds for a disqualification. Personally, I'd vote higher on images that seem to be of an animal in its natural environment (even, perhaps, if its a zoo shot) than on those that don't.
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01/18/2006 02:47:00 PM · #60 |
For me, this Challenge pretty much amounts to a Squirrel and Pidgeon hunt...although I do have a true Blue Ribbon idea that might also backfire.
...it a coin toss for The Paw.
Message edited by author 2006-01-18 15:10:45. |
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01/18/2006 02:49:21 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Ok, I'm back on the animal fence again. After reading the Tribute thread, the concensus is it is pretty much an open free study. But that story is on that thread.
Here, I can see that as long as you can appeal to the voters with any animal shot that doesn't "seem" to be in an unnatural environment, you are good to go.
So, it's a choice between an open free study in Tribute, or an animal free study. I much prefer to shoot the animals and take my chances with that shot! :)
So count me in!
Rose |
Only if you publicly retract your "cheaters" comments, jejejeâ„¢ Just relax and enjoy it, would be my suggestion.
R. |
Well, I still think it is cheating to me. LOL...BUT, if others feel it is all in the fun of it, then I'm game. Not taking it so seriously now, and that is a relief. I would retract the comments, but I may just be one of those cheaters!! LOL... Now that I think about it, it may be fun trying to figure out who did cheat and who didn't! LOL...If I do, I will say so in my comments with a "hah! Cheated! Took at the Zoo!" or wherever. So that may actually be fun.
Rose
Message edited by author 2006-01-18 14:51:33. |
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01/18/2006 02:52:00 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Re: "zoos and preserves", it's worth noting that IF you lived in Africa and wanted to photograph "big game" for this challenge, you'd head for your nearest "wildlife preserve" to do it. They are HUGE, no question about it, but they are "preserves". In the USA, there are likewise "nature preserves". Now you got also places like the Wild Animal Park in San Diego, which has a LOT of acreage devoted to creating a natural environment in which the animals roam free. Where are you going to draw the line?
The challenge does not say "in THEIR natural environment", it says in "A" natural environment.
I'm actually more intrigued by the exclusion of fish from the challenge :-) Bummer for any divers we have here with underwater housings...
R. |
Yes I'm also intrigued by the exclusion of fish ?
I think most of the "preserves" in Africa are in place to protect animals from poachers, the animals still live in a natural environment and fend for themselves where as " Wild Animal Parks" and Zoo's the animals are cared for and feed by humans.
But really what does it matter if anyone wants to enter a zoo shot go ahead, as we have seen in the past a very good zoo shot will probably win. But if you want to take on the challenge then abide by the intent of the description and you will enjoy the challenge far more. |
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01/18/2006 02:54:12 PM · #63 |
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01/18/2006 03:18:56 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
But really what does it matter if anyone wants to enter a zoo shot go ahead, as we have seen in the past a very good zoo shot will probably win. But if you want to take on the challenge then abide by the intent of the description and you will enjoy the challenge far more. |
Well, if I sit there and freeze my ass off trying to capture that perfect Pidgeon or Squirrel, I might look down slightly at those that waltzed into a zoo and pinged an enclosed Lion or something...not that I will be able to tell the difference.
PING!
Just kidding, of course but the degree of difficulty here lies in the "natural environment" part of this whole thing, so my better thoughts will go in that direction. "Wild" "Life"
Message edited by author 2006-01-18 15:35:32. |
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01/18/2006 03:54:31 PM · #65 |
//www.brentwardphoto.com/warthog.jpg
She was better to work with than most people. She listened to commands very well and moved exactly where I wanted her to be. Definitely not wildlife, but not your typical housepet either.
Message edited by author 2006-01-18 15:54:43.
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01/18/2006 04:16:15 PM · #66 |
here is a ponderance: I have "rescue" animals.
They are not domesticated, wild breed but they are staying in my house.
Where do resucues fall into this defination. |
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01/18/2006 04:22:29 PM · #67 |
I think the truth of it all is, the definition does not matter - only the perception.
Without being able to describe a photo (ther than the title) all a voter can go by is their perception of the challenge guidelines.
So whether you followed the description or not doesn't matter as long as the voter thinks you did (or didn't).
Take a picture at the zoo but make voters think it's in the wild - no problem it won't suffer any DNMC votes.
Take a picture of a Jungle Cat that resembles a house cat and it WILL be voted down even though you followed the description to the letter because of the perception.
The voter isn't wrong for not knowing the history of the picture. Shoot accordingly :) |
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01/18/2006 04:25:57 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Funny that you use NG as an example. Weren't they the first major publication to use digital manipulation by moving one of the pyramids so their cover looked better? |
Yup. But they got burned because of a few features that included manipulated shots that were passed off for real and then they tightened up with their staff photographers.
I agree with Bear that it is difficult to define a reserve. But the big reserves in Africa are not like the game farms here. They have no fences but instead are just like our National Parks. The wildlife is free to roam. But like I said, I'm not against shooting in zoos for this challenge. I was just making the point that there is controversy out there about what is passed off as a wildlife in nature shot.
Message edited by author 2006-01-18 16:28:08. |
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01/18/2006 04:26:46 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by mesmeraj:
here is a ponderance: I have "rescue" animals.
They are not domesticated, wild breed but they are staying in my house.
Where do resucues fall into this defination. |
For this challenge? Shot them witha natural background and your good to go. |
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01/18/2006 04:29:25 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Funny that you use NG as an example. Weren't they the first major publication to use digital manipulation by moving one of the pyramids so their cover looked better? |
Yup. But they got burned because of a few features that included manipulated shots that were passed off for real and then they tightened up with their staff photographers.
I agree with Bear that it is difficult to define a reserve. But the big reserves in Africa are not like the game farms here. They have no fences but instead are just like our National Parks. The wildlife is free to roam. But like I said, I'm not against shooting in zoos for this challenge. I was just making the point that there is controversy out there about what is passed off as a wildlife in nature shot. |
Reserves in africa have fences, they all might not, but some of the big ones do.
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01/18/2006 04:40:05 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Reserves in africa have fences, they all might not, but some of the big ones do. |
I stand corrected. But my point is not about National Park or large free roaming spaces. It is about contained and captive animals that are much easier to shot, or at least easier to access. The problem is it would be next to impossible to tell for sure looking at just a photo anyway. I only commented on the moral and ethical dilemma going on in that part of the industry.
I̢۪m good with the challenge so no problem. The zoo shots last time were great photos that took skill to capture. I might even visit the zoo if I get down Seattle way in the next week. LOL. |
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01/18/2006 05:56:07 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Maybe I'm missunderstanding something but it seems that you responded to what you believe to be a narrow definition, with one of your own? |
What part of photography is excluded from my definition?
Sorry, but I did not see your post before you edited it so I may have missed something. |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Some photography may be about illusion but the main impetus of it is to depict reality |
I think that is the narrow definition being referred to.
How do you presume to know what the main driving force behind photography? That's just another narrow definition tainted by your perception of how you seem to believe the world to be. |
Impetus means the driving force behind something, or the stimulus that got it started. In the beginning photography was invented to capture reality in order to record it for those unable to view it firsthand. I believe that the vast majority of the bigger world of photography still continues in that vein. Photography as art, photography as illusion, and photography as we practice it here for our challenges and portfolios are only small parts in the overall scheme of photography. Step back and take a look at the bigger picture. There is room for all of the disciplines without anyone having to feel they need to make their personal area of preference more important by putting down what others gravitate toward.
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01/18/2006 06:19:10 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
... There is room for all of the disciplines without anyone having to feel they need to make their personal area of preference more important by putting down what others gravitate toward. |
Yep - What he said...
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01/18/2006 07:18:06 PM · #74 |
| OK, one major problem for many people on this site when it comes to doing true nature photography is they don't have the equipment. Generally to get really good nature shots you have to have expensive gear. I for one do not have $5,000 to put down on a 600 mm lens. I do have a 70-300 and a doubler but the results with the doubler are absolute garbage. I have taken decent nature shots that are in the wild but it takes a lot of time, patience, and luck. I am just not sure if it is worth taking that much time just to be beaten by some lion picture from a zoo. I think if I do this challenge I will spend half my day out in a nearby wildlife refuge and the other half in a zoo. I can almost guarantee I will have much better success in the zoo since the only thing I can possibly get shots of in the refuge is birds, alligators, squirrels, several other small mammals, and if extremely lucky a boar or bobcat. |
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01/18/2006 07:32:43 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by fadedbeauty:
... or bobcat. |
Now THAT would be cool! Aren't they quite elusive...only move around at night, etc...
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