Is My Alien Bee B800 Too Powerful For Me?

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

01/15/2006 08:52:17 PM · #1

Let me preface this by saying that I have never used a flash before (other than built-in on-camera flash), and so I know next to nothing about how to use one, let alone a monolight.

I recently purchased an Alien Bee B800 monolight and a large softbox. I got everything set up and took a whole bunch of portrait type shots of my wife and our friends. I found that in order to get proper exposure with the f/8 aperture (and ISO 100) that I wanted to use, I needed to turn the power level on the B800 way down to around 1/8 of full power, or thereabouts. Then I tried some shallow DOF type portrait shots (f/2 or f/2.8), and found that even with the B800's power level turned all the way down to 1/32 of full power, the images were overexposed.

I'm assuming that when using a strobe like the B800, my shutter speed is pretty much irrelevant because the strobe fires in something like 1/6000 of a second and totally overpowers any ambient light that may exist during the rest of the time that the shutter is open.

So, to make a long question short, is the B800 too powerful for what I'm doing? Should I get a B400? For what types of shots do you usually need a B800, and for what types do you need a B400?

Thanks for your help!

wavelength

Nikon D300

01/15/2006 09:01:13 PM · #2

I idn't get satisfactory results from my cheapo lights until I set them to f/11 and 1/125th of a second. I'm not sure on the duration of the flash, but it seems that 1/6000 must be the sync time, not the duration of the flash. maybe 1/800 to 1/1000, but not 1/6000. I can be, and I often am, wrong, but I'd check that info again.

Changing the shutter speed does change the light for especially up close and at medium to large apeture. I'm still learning, so I'm sure someone else with more experience will pipe up...

hokie

Nikon D2X

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

01/15/2006 09:04:34 PM · #3

For studio strobes..you need a light meter.

Without a light meter, you are going to constantly play "Pin the tail on the exposure" with studio strobes, chasing the elusive correct exposure.

A decent light meter goes for about $100

Message edited by author 2006-01-15 21:05:17.

milo655321

Nikon D70

Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4.0 AT-X Pro DX

01/15/2006 09:07:01 PM · #4

Originally posted by hokie:

Hmm ... Chris, this sounds just like something your sister-in-law said.

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/15/2006 09:11:09 PM · #5

For large aperture shots you can try moving the strobe farther back (inverse square rule), or you can use ND filters, either on the strobe or on the lens.

I have B400s and seldom turn them up over 1/2 power.

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

01/15/2006 09:14:52 PM · #6

Originally posted by hokie:

But the point is that even with all my settings "maxed out" (ISO 100, strobe set to 1/32 power), my shots were still overexposed when using larger apertures (like f/2.8, etc.). So I don't see how a light meter would help with that. :)

Beach_mel

Nikon D70s

01/15/2006 09:16:49 PM · #7

What was your shutter speed?

01/15/2006 09:17:35 PM · #8

Originally posted by micknewton:

Yes, I suppose I certainly could move the strobe farther back, but then I would start to lose the benefit of the softbox (large, diffused source of light). The softbox would effectively become smaller, and would give me less of a diffused light source, I would think.

Hmmm... maybe I need B400's like you :)

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

01/15/2006 09:19:43 PM · #9

Originally posted by Beach_mel:

What was your shutter speed?

I tried various shutter speeds, including really fast ones, but I don't think they made a difference in exposure. I could be wrong about this. I ended up using 1/60 or 1/125.

donniev

Canon EOS-50D

01/15/2006 09:23:35 PM · #10

When I ordered the digibee kit I upgraded to 2 B800's and that was a huge mistake. In my rather small basement I was always having to turn them to 1/32 power and had the same experience you had. Fortunately AB has a 60 day return so I swapped them out for B400's and have been much happier. All it cost me was the shipping.

I echo hokie's comment on a light meter. Make sure you get one with a corded flash capability so you can plug the AB synch cord right into the light meter.

The maximum flash sync on the 20D is 1/250 sec so you wouldn't be using shutters speeds shorter than that. I don't know what it is on your camera but should be either 1/200 or 1/250 I would guess.

hokie

Nikon D2X

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

01/15/2006 09:24:04 PM · #11

Originally posted by Keith Maniac:

Originally posted by hokie:
For studio strobes..you need a light meter.

Without a light meter, you are going to constantly play "Pin the tail on the exposure" with studio strobes, chasing the elusive correct exposure.

A decent light meter goes for about $100

But the point is that even with all my settings "maxed out" (ISO 100, strobe set to 1/32 power), my shots were still overexposed when using larger apertures (like f/2.8, etc.). So I don't see how a light meter would help with that. :)

You have not explored other ways, as have been mentioned by others, to lower the amount of light getting into your camera. Nuetral Density Filters on your lens, bouncing off reflectors instead of directly at subjects. Can you add another screen to your softbox? Many softboxes have double panels or the option of adding a double panel. I didn't mention moving your lights back as that may not be a reasonable option in many small studios.

My point is, if you don't have a light meter, you will be spending a lot of time trying to figure out if you are getting close to the right exposure and anytime you make a light change or change in subject or move to a different shooting location you will have to go through a million more gyrations again to get your light right.

BTW..You probably do have too much power. Most in-close home studio style shots only need about 250 watt systems. Low ceilings, very close proximity between subject and lights and walls real close bouncing light back into your shooting area all contribute to total light available.

Message edited by author 2006-01-15 21:33:25.

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/15/2006 09:33:46 PM · #12

Originally posted by Keith Maniac:

You're right, closer is usually better with a softbox. In that case you might want to try doubling up the internal diffusion panel of your softbox, maybe even replacing it with some thicker or denser material.

Originally posted by Keith Maniac:

Hmmm... maybe I need B400's like you :)

That's another option. :)

What you really need (if you don't have one yet) is the Alien Bees LG4X Four-Channel Remote. The more lights you add to your setup, the more you need one.

:)

Prof_Fate

01/15/2006 09:45:19 PM · #13

You need to set the shutter speed to 1 or 2 stops below your sync speed (1/200 i think, so try 1/125) Aperture controls the exposure, NOT shutter speed. going over 1/200 will cause issued with the shutter cutting off the light. you set it 1 or 2 stops slower to allow for time lag on the strobe being triggered.

softbox - for max softenss, keep it within it's lengh of the subject (a 3' sofbox needs to be withing 3' of the subject) farther back and it just becomes a large light source.

f9 to 13 is a normal range. you can move you and the subject in relation to the BG to alter the BG DOF issues. If you truly need/want f2.8 then try using just hte modeling light or ou'llneed ND filter on the camera or ND gels for the strobe units. Moving the lights back might be an option but will change the light quality/direction etc.

01/15/2006 09:59:27 PM · #14

Originally posted by donniev:

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with this problem :)

I have a feeling I'm going to be exchanging my B800 for a B400...

01/15/2006 10:02:57 PM · #15

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

...going over 1/200 will cause issued with the shutter cutting off the light. you set it 1 or 2 stops slower to allow for time lag on the strobe being triggered.

Yeah, I discovered this the hard way, LOL. When experimenting with shutter speeds, I found that really fast shutter speeds (e.g. 1/500) produced an image that was completely black except for the top 1/3 of the frame.

I'll keep my shutter speed around 1/60 or 1/125 from now on :)

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

01/15/2006 10:05:24 PM · #16

Originally posted by micknewton:

Yeah, I actually already do have a double diffusion panel. I hadn't thought about using a thicker material. Interesting...

Still, the easiest thing may be to exchange my B800 for a B400...

Beach_mel

Nikon D70s

01/15/2006 10:05:59 PM · #17

Keith, in a backhanded way I thank you for this thread. I was conflicted about which AB's to buy right now and you have decided me. My home studio space is just too small to support 800's. Which light boxes did you get?

;) Mel

hokie

Nikon D2X

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

01/15/2006 10:11:50 PM · #18

I have an elinchrom setup I use for home and shooting indoor sports like basketball, volleyball.

Its a 300 watt and a 600 watt and I can light a small gym with em well enought to shoot stop action...So I know two 800 watts of anything will really blow some light!

I wonder what people do with these big 1200 x 4 or more set-ups..thye must be lighting outdoor football!

donniev

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

01/15/2006 10:13:37 PM · #19

Originally posted by Keith Maniac:

Originally posted by micknewton:

You're right, closer is usually better with a softbox. In that case you might want to try doubling up the internal diffusion panel of your softbox, maybe even replacing it with some thicker or denser material.

Yeah, I actually already do have a double diffusion panel. I hadn't thought about using a thicker material. Interesting...

Still, the easiest thing may be to exchange my B800 for a B400...

Remember the B400 is only going to make a one stop difference so you still may need to use some of the other techniques. The upside is you get some $ back to buy a light meter or act on micknewton's shameless plug :-) The downside is if you ever need the extra power you can't get it out of B400.

When I exchanged I actually bought two B400's and then sent B800's back after the 400's arrived. That way I wasn't without lights. AB was very prompt on refund. Credited back to my CC the day after they received them. AB has great customer service.

wewillexplore

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/15/2006 10:14:08 PM · #20

Are you guys shooting manual? I just have to know?

01/15/2006 10:21:16 PM · #21

Originally posted by donniev:

Remember the B400 is only going to make a one stop difference so you still may need to use some of the other techniques...

Yeah, good point. I guess I'm a little suprised that they don't make a much less powerful model for people like you and me, who don't need all the power.

Originally posted by donniev:

When I exchanged I actually bought two B400's and then sent B800's back after the 400's arrived. That way I wasn't without lights...

Good idea. I may do that :)

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

01/15/2006 10:23:13 PM · #22

Originally posted by mavrik:

Are you guys shooting manual? I just have to know?

I am shooting manual. I leave the shutter speed set to 1/60 or 1/125, and then set the aperture based on my "creative requirements" (i.e. shallow vs. deep DOF).

downtherabbithole

Canon EOS-30D

01/15/2006 10:38:41 PM · #23

Originally posted by Keith Maniac:

some for warning, I haven't read anyone's response to this, so if any of this has allready been said, I'm sorry

anyway

in short, no the 800 is perfect for you. you just need to learn how to use it :)
the first thing I suggest is get a good light meter, any studio workflow is not posable without one.
as for your problem, you have to understand how light works. the closer the light is the more powerful the light will be. if you turn the light all the way down and it's still too powerful you have some options.
1.move the light farther away,the farther away the light is the softer the shadows will be, the closer the light is the harder the shadows will be.
2. bounce the light off of something. anytime you bounce the light off of a white card or a reflector you lose at least one stop of light. depending on what color your reflector is the more light will be absorbed and the less light will be reflected.
-reflectors can be made very easy. I use white poster board or if I need it to be more specular ("hader light") I use books that I have covered with tin foil.

hope that was helpful. sadly this only scratches the surface of lighting. the thing that seperates the professionals from the soccer moms is how we "paint with light".