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DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> Some people just have no morals?
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 01/13/2006 03:32:36 PM · #1
Could D&L fix it so that after you vote on a photo you can't go back to it? That way if you think a photo deserves a certain score and vote it as such, it gets that score and stays. I know just as well as everybody else here that some people will go back and down vote to try and make theirs better. It's more noticable in the open challenges than the member challenges. Or make going back to adjust votes a "member-only option."
I'd like to think that the members here wouldn't do such things.


01/13/2006 03:34:44 PM · #2
I think many people vote in blocks then go back and adjust. I know this has been brought up several times in the forums under "How do you vote", etc...
 01/13/2006 03:35:09 PM · #3
Originally posted by dsmeth:
Could D&L fix it so that after you vote on a photo you can't go back to it? That way if you think a photo deserves a certain score and vote it as such, it gets that score and stays. I know just as well as everybody else here that some people will go back and down vote to try and make theirs better. It's more noticable in the open challenges than the member challenges. Or make going back to adjust votes a "member-only option."
I'd like to think that the members here wouldn't do such things.


Most of the time it's in your favor. At teh end lots of people go back and give higher scores.
 01/13/2006 03:35:48 PM · #4
A lot of people, myself included, make a first pass at voting, assigning every photo one of 3 scores to separate them into 3 categories. ("Good," "Better," "Best," if you will). Then we go back and assign each photo in the category an individual score.

Your suggestion would break this voting method, that a lot of people use.

Also, are we not allowed to change our minds?
 01/13/2006 03:36:05 PM · #5
I have never seen this... But I do sometimes go back and down/up vote photos which I am not sure about not because I am botherd about my score:) and I think the amount of people who would do this to better a photo is minimal on this site

edit
wow I started typing when no one had said a thing you lot are too fast...

Message edited by author 2006-01-13 15:36:40.
 01/13/2006 03:36:37 PM · #6
The topic of "troll voting", whether for a first-time vote o rupon vote adjustment, comes up with stunning regularity. Two facts need to be kept in mind:

1.) There is NO evidence of more than a very few votes of this type, far fewer than necessary to affect results in any meaningful way.
2.) There are safeguards in place to discount the votes of those who's voting pattern is clearly malicious.
 01/13/2006 03:37:48 PM · #7
I'm one of the bump UP voters. Will often go back to bump up the best photos to a ten, especially if I hadn't given any 10's on my first pass.
01/13/2006 03:39:32 PM · #8
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Originally posted by dsmeth:
Could D&L fix it so that after you vote on a photo you can't go back to it? That way if you think a photo deserves a certain score and vote it as such, it gets that score and stays. I know just as well as everybody else here that some people will go back and down vote to try and make theirs better. It's more noticable in the open challenges than the member challenges. Or make going back to adjust votes a "member-only option."
I'd like to think that the members here wouldn't do such things.


Most of the time it's in your favor. At teh end lots of people go back and give higher scores.

I Agree!
I vote in blocks and then adjust. Usually upward very few times down.

Message edited by author 2006-01-13 15:39:54.
 01/13/2006 03:48:18 PM · #9
When I vote, I usually do it the very night the roll over occurs. I, at that time, only give a 4, 5, or 6. The following day or one or two later, I go back and adjust, as I like to give it more thought first. Sometimes the 5's and 6's become 9's and 10's.

This is why I don't take great stock in first votes given. I think quite a few do the same. BUT, as for low balling in hopes of bringing up the average of your own score? I don't think that many on this site do that, and because of that, I really don't think it changes the outcome very much in the end. Let's say maybe 30 out of 200 voters do that. It may make SOME difference, but probably only in hundreds of a point.

I do think council takes stock in this though, and are aware this may happen. I believe if people are caught, it will be dealt with. However, this is a huge undertaking to do every challenge, and as long as open voting is allowed, then it will continue. I really just don't believe it happens on any large enough scale to be worrysome.

Most of the time I find that the photos that win deserved to win. There are a few exceptions, but not many.

Rose
 01/13/2006 04:03:39 PM · #10
Originally posted by Rose8699:
BUT, as for low balling in hopes of bringing up the average of your own score? I don't think that many on this site do that, and because of that, I really don't think it changes the outcome very much in the end. Let's say maybe 30 out of 200 voters do that. It may make SOME difference, but probably only in hundreds of a point.


Using your example, more of a difference than you think. Hypothetically, let's say the 200 votes were all 5.000. Then at the last minute 30 of them changed from 5 to 1. That would drop the average from 5.0 to 4.4...

Of course, 30 out of 200 would be one HELL of a percentage of troll voters; if they existed in that quantity we'd have a real problem.

R.
 01/13/2006 04:23:18 PM · #11
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
BUT, as for low balling in hopes of bringing up the average of your own score? I don't think that many on this site do that, and because of that, I really don't think it changes the outcome very much in the end. Let's say maybe 30 out of 200 voters do that. It may make SOME difference, but probably only in hundreds of a point.


Using your example, more of a difference than you think. Hypothetically, let's say the 200 votes were all 5.000. Then at the last minute 30 of them changed from 5 to 1. That would drop the average from 5.0 to 4.4...

Of course, 30 out of 200 would be one HELL of a percentage of troll voters; if they existed in that quantity we'd have a real problem.

R.


True, but the Troll voters are probably not selective so ALL of the scores would be adjusted. Same ratio as before.
 01/13/2006 04:26:47 PM · #12
Originally posted by barndog:
True, but the Troll voters are probably not selective so ALL of the scores would be adjusted. Same ratio as before.


This would be true of a "real" troll, but the hypothetical troll here IS being selective; his image is doing pretty well, and he's trying to improve his chances by targeting the competition's best images and bombing them into smithereens.

Robt.
 01/13/2006 04:31:09 PM · #13
Must we talk about hypothetical (non-existent) trolls again?
 01/13/2006 04:33:34 PM · #14
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Must we talk about hypothetical (non-existent) trolls again?


Actually, they are quite tasty in a stew ;-)
 01/13/2006 04:34:18 PM · #15
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Must we talk about hypothetical (non-existent) trolls again?


Sorry, I was just getting into the math of Rose's comment, and lost sight of the forest for the trolls :-)

R.
 01/13/2006 04:35:16 PM · #16
What are you talking about? Trolls are VERY real!!!
 01/13/2006 04:37:36 PM · #17
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Must we talk about hypothetical (non-existent) trolls again?


Ha ha ha, yeah, it's the DPC ghosts running rampant on the scores again.

The way the voting system is set up, one person could not "self promote" to any degree to make a difference unles they had 20-30 bogus accounts or a slew of friends waiting to promote their image. I have faith in the SC that bogus accounts are kept in check and if someone has that many friends willing to register and vote on their image, more power to them.
 01/13/2006 04:42:55 PM · #18
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
BUT, as for low balling in hopes of bringing up the average of your own score? I don't think that many on this site do that, and because of that, I really don't think it changes the outcome very much in the end. Let's say maybe 30 out of 200 voters do that. It may make SOME difference, but probably only in hundreds of a point.


Using your example, more of a difference than you think. Hypothetically, let's say the 200 votes were all 5.000. Then at the last minute 30 of them changed from 5 to 1. That would drop the average from 5.0 to 4.4...

Of course, 30 out of 200 would be one HELL of a percentage of troll voters; if they existed in that quantity we'd have a real problem.

R.


Yeah, it was probably a bad example. I am not a mathematical genius by any means, but it was just to make a point.

Rose
 01/13/2006 04:47:04 PM · #19
I'm another one who does a first pass vote splitting images roughly into three or four main groups. On the second pass I grade them more accurately using the full range of scores. On the final pass I adjust up and down for a few that I didn't score fairly.

And sometimes I'll even come back through again another day and an image has grown on me so much I'll bump it up. (That doesn't happen in reverse btw so at this stage, I'm not bumping down).

I never adjust a score on finding out the image is by a friend. Never.
 01/13/2006 04:51:19 PM · #20
For my voting style... On every challenge, I always give out from one to three 10s. It's like grading on a curve. My favorite for the challenge (what I want to see get the blue) gets an automatic 10. The next two best images will either be 9s or 10s depending on how close they are.

So, after I have gone through the entire set of images, I go back to my 8s and evaluate them. See if some should move up to 9s, possibly even 10s, or maybe they should move back down to 7s.

So no... I hope you don't implement this idea. I like being able to put my favorites into context with each other. There is no way I can remember them all and decide up front which one(s) should get the top score.

For what it's worth, I very rarely revisit my 4s or 5s. And almost never hand out anything less than a 4 unless the image truly stinks.

01/13/2006 05:20:18 PM · #21
Originally posted by Megatherian:
What are you talking about? Trolls are VERY real!!!

Sorry, I thought it was understood that I was referring only to the often-hypothesized but never observed DPC-Voting Trolls, not real trolls.
 01/13/2006 05:29:17 PM · #22
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I think many people vote in blocks then go back and adjust. I know this has been brought up several times in the forums under "How do you vote", etc...

I do this. I can't really tell exactly what I'm going to give a photo until I've grouped them. After I have them in groups I can single out the ones that stand out the most for me. It works well.
 01/13/2006 06:04:29 PM · #23
On the recent "Mother" challenge, there were almost 36,000 votes cast. Assuming that this counts the total number of votes of all pictures, there is an average of about 282 votes on each of 127 pictures (unless I misunderstand, and there are 36,000 votes on each picture.)

One bad vote is less than 1/2 of a percent. Even if a lot of people voted 1s for everything except thier own work, all it would do would be to bring the average down (and thier score up by less than that 1/2 percent).

IMO, this is pretty trivial.
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