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01/07/2006 02:07:01 PM · #26 |
And BTW he did live. He needed stitches, may have had a broken jaw, and more then likely had a serious concussion (based on my observation that he stayed unconscious for more then ten minutes at the scene)
Most of it will not be known because after he was stitched up and the bleeding stopped he tried to start a fight with one of the doctors at the hospital and was placed in the city jail.
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01/07/2006 02:25:45 PM · #27 |
I'm not trying to stir up trouble here or hijack this thread (I'll open a new one if it would be better) but in the interest of learning...
What are the photographer's rights and the guys rights with this photo? My nderstanding is if the picture is a "news worthy" a release would not need to be obtained - but given that this shot is posted on a "contest" site should a release be obtained?
On COPS they blur the faces if a release wasn't received... what's the law on this kind of thing? |
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01/07/2006 02:29:32 PM · #28 |
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01/07/2006 03:15:14 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Megatherian:
What are the photographer's rights and the guys rights with this photo? |
Does this help?
Legalities
General
Street photography generally refers to photographs made in public places ΓΆ€” not only streets, but parks, beaches, malls, political conventions and myriad other settings ΓΆ€” often but not always featuring people going about their everyday lives.
Your rights as a Street Photographer
Photographing without permission:-
In the United States, anything visible ("in plain view") from a public area can be legally photographed. This includes buildings and facilities, people, signage, notices, and images. It is not uncommon for security personnel to use intimidation or other tactics to attempt to stop the photographer from photographing their facilities (trying to prevent, e.g., industrial espionage), however there is no legal precedent to prevent the photographer so long as the image being photographed is in plain view of a public area.
Dealing with Confrontation
In very rare cases, it may be necessary to hand over the film to someone who is truly intent on physically harming the photographer ΓΆ€” though in the U.S. there is no legal grounds to force you to (even in the face of police demands to do so).
Full details and case law here
Brett
Message edited by author 2006-01-07 15:20:37. |
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01/07/2006 03:35:35 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by mesmeraj:
It looked too real to me. I dont know if it was or not, but if it was i think it is disrepectful to the man on the ground.
why didnt it do well - because this is a stocky site, not a photojournalism site. |
I'll even go so far to say that a great photojournalistic capture still does well here on DPC.
However, when the cops are just standing there looking like..."yeah, so are you going to the bowling leage this Sunday... Not sure Joe, the wife and kids want to go mini-golfing" and a man lies bleeding. It really comes across as a dead bland photo.
I found the composition too noisy for my liking, and too much blurr from hand-holding. Hey, I know it's hard. But what makes or breaks a journalistic photo is capturing that perfect moment. And I just feel this one did not do that.
It did not memorialize the incident it really just took away from the life of the whole scene. Nothing personal NBSCA7
Anyways, it might have done better in B&W. Perhaps you should post a B&W version to this thread for us to see?
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01/07/2006 04:06:53 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
However, when the cops are just standing there looking like..."yeah, so are you going to the bowling leage this Sunday... Not sure Joe, the wife and kids want to go mini-golfing" and a man lies bleeding. It really comes across as a dead bland photo.
I found the composition too noisy for my liking, and too much blurr from hand-holding. |
I realize that this image does not really tell the whole story. That was one of my concerns while first reviewing this photo. But the lack of emotion on the officer's face is part of the story and actually serves to reinforce the silly title I added. It would appear to be an everyday occurrence for them.
Actually there is no blur from camera shake. Look at the subject's head on the ground, which was the focus point. There is a narrow DOF and some motion blur.
And you see an excessive amount of noise?
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01/07/2006 04:11:58 PM · #32 |
i don't see any noise and not even enough blur to mention. i quite like the shallow DOF, too.
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01/07/2006 04:16:41 PM · #33 |
| another thing to think about, how many people think that other people getting hurt is funny. Americas Funniest Home Video's, or Jackass for example. Some people dont find that humorus, my hunband thinks its hilarous, as do I to a degree. |
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01/07/2006 04:29:57 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Kivet:
another thing to think about, how many people think that other people getting hurt is funny. Americas Funniest Home Video's, or Jackass for example. Some people dont find that humorus, my hunband thinks its hilarous, as do I to a degree. |
Was the "Opps!" challenge meant for only humorous entries? I didn't take it that way.
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01/07/2006 04:32:53 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
This version has a little more emotion, but the composition is not as strong.
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I dunno. To me it still like 2 bored cops waiting for the ambulance to arrive. |
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01/07/2006 05:19:35 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
To me it still like 2 bored cops waiting for the ambulance to arrive. |
I agree.
When I saw the first one I had to think quite a bit before I voted. I viewed it a few times. In my opinion it did not meet the challenge since with the title the conclusion I came to was I thought it was a bad joke and not an 'oops' at all. Plus I found it difficult to find anyplace that was in focus or even the center of attention since all areas seem to carry the same weight in the photo.
Message edited by author 2006-01-07 17:20:50. |
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01/07/2006 05:24:33 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by jhonan:
To me it still like 2 bored cops waiting for the ambulance to arrive. |
I agree.
When I saw the first one I had to think quite a bit before I voted. I viewed it a few times. In my opinion it did not meet the challenge since with the title the conclusion I came to was I thought it was a bad joke and not an 'oops' at all. Plus I found it difficult to find anyplace that was in focus or even the center of attention since all areas seem to carry the same weight in the photo. |
A "bad joke" and "did not meet the challenge" Now I know where I get my ones.
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01/07/2006 05:28:56 PM · #38 |
| I did not vote that a one. Stop making assumptions. 1's are a very low percentage of the votes I make (average cast is 6.03xx). You were within 1.03 points of that. Want to make an assumption of which way? |
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01/07/2006 05:32:00 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by Kivet:
another thing to think about, how many people think that other people getting hurt is funny. Americas Funniest Home Video's, or Jackass for example. Some people dont find that humorus, my hunband thinks its hilarous, as do I to a degree. |
Was the "Opps!" challenge meant for only humorous entries? I didn't take it that way. |
Of course its not, I just meant that life in general. If people dont like to see violence or cant find the humor in something like this, which I thought was implied by your title, then they'll vote it down. I thought it was a great oops. IMHO. |
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01/07/2006 05:32:34 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
I did not vote that a one. Stop making assumptions. 1's are a very low percentage of the votes I make (average cast is 6.03xx). You were within 1.03 points of that. Want to make an assumption of which way? |
No assumption. Can only be a 5.
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01/07/2006 05:34:47 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Kivet:
[quote=nsbca7]
Of course its not, I just meant that life in general. If people dont like to see violence or cant find the humor in something like this, which I thought was implied by your title, then they'll vote it down. I thought it was a great oops. IMHO. |
Actually the title was meant as sarcasm. But that just goes to show me how poor my communication skills are.
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01/07/2006 05:38:52 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by hokie:
By the way...I got a 1 from some scum sucking inbred idiot that likes to urinate on stuff..:-P..(Inside joke form another thread) :-D |
You got a one? My image got 41 votes of 3 or under. While I had no expectation of this image winning, because of the blood and the subject matter, It did not deserve 14 ones. The image is well composed, well lit, and though there is some background and action blur, the main subject is crisp.
Mavrik is right on the point of know your audience. I knew when I entered this It would not soar. No sour grapes, just trying to figure out what make people tick. |
I truly don't want to offend you, as I have had the opportunity to marvel at some of your previous submissions, but I feel I may with my response to your comments.
While it remains true that the image did not warrant 14 ones, it could be argued that the 13 tens were not justified either. Further, if we compare the scores at the lower echelon with those in the upper echelon, we notice and almost perfect bell curve.
Perhaps my monitor is not calibrated properly, but I found that the focus was more on one of the police officers than the person arrested.
The photo did quite well in my opinion since it was a slightly above average image of a rather troubling and shocking situation. I personally gave it a 6.
Ray
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01/07/2006 05:46:02 PM · #43 |
| I am not experienced enough to comment on techical aspects of your photo and I did not vote on the challenge.... but I will share that when I viewed your photo I felt uneasy..... the lack of concern on the police officers face... the obvious harm to the man on the ground - and isn't that one of the things that art is supposed to do? To make us examine our beliefs, to create emotions, sometimes conflicting ones? I didn't 'like' the visual but I really liked the way it made me think. |
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01/07/2006 05:47:06 PM · #44 |
If I could hazard a guess here, I'd say the image scored somewhat lower than it might otherwise have scored because the image and the title, taken together, seem to be "callous". I find the scene viscerally disturbing. My gut reaction to it is that the guy is bleeding and the cops don't give a shit one way or the other. I imagine it would have scored a great deal better if there had been visible emotion on their faces.
All in all, it seems to me to have garnered about the score I'd have expected from it. It's a "clean" shot, but it's not an outstanding one; very striaghtforward, nothing in it to leap out and grab you except, of course, the blood. The title seems to trivialize the whole scene, IMO.
R.
Message edited by author 2006-01-07 17:47:47. |
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01/07/2006 05:58:37 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The title seems to trivialize the whole scene, IMO.
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I was worried about that when I posted, but lack of imagination at the moment kept me fro titling it anything different.
In retrospect I think a simple "handcuffed (photojournalism)" would have worked much better.
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01/07/2006 06:08:56 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
My gut reaction to it is that the guy is bleeding and the cops don't give a shit one way or the other. I imagine it would have scored a great deal better if there had been visible emotion on their faces.
R. |
Oh but they do give a shit, because they will be writing reports till their fingers ache ...and have to answer a myriad of questions from the Internal Investigations Unit. In addition, they will have to deal with the Monday morning quarterback office types who will second guess their every move, albeit they in all likely have never experienced any situation that is remotely close to that depicted here.
I am not privy to the actions that transpired prior to this image being taken, but I can assure you that I have had situations where someone attacked me with a hammer, and the ensuing results were very similar to those depicted here. Did I care that the victim was injured, you bet I did, but I am not a paramedic, hence I waited for those with the proper equipment and training to deal with the injuries.
With regards to the visible emotions,,,it could be argued that perhaps these police officers have encountered similar situations on a frequent basis and maybe, just maybe, their emotions were held in check because they have become jaded.
Ray |
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01/07/2006 06:11:50 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
My gut reaction to it is that the guy is bleeding and the cops don't give a shit one way or the other. I imagine it would have scored a great deal better if there had been visible emotion on their faces.
R. |
Oh but they do give a shit, because they will be writing reports till their fingers ache ...and have to answer a myriad of questions from the Internal Investigations Unit. In addition, they will have to deal with the Monday morning quarterback office types who will second guess their every move, albeit they in all likely have never experienced any situation that is remotely close to that depicted here.
I am not privy to the actions that transpired prior to this image being taken, but I can assure you that I have had situations where someone attacked me with a hammer, and the ensuing results were very similar to those depicted here. Did I care that the victim was injured, you bet I did, but I am not a paramedic, hence I waited for those with the proper equipment and training to deal with the injuries.
With regards to the visible emotions,,,it could be argued that perhaps these police officers have encountered similar situations on a frequent basis and maybe, just maybe, their emotions were held in check because they have become jaded.
Ray |
Ray, I'm well aware of all that. I'm not surprised they are appearing "emotionless". My point is only that the IMAGE might have scored better if the cops were displaying visible emotion; NOT that I think they should have been doing so.
R. |
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01/07/2006 06:16:43 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
My gut reaction to it is that the guy is bleeding and the cops don't give a shit one way or the other. I imagine it would have scored a great deal better if there had been visible emotion on their faces.
R. |
Oh but they do give a shit, because they will be writing reports till their fingers ache ...and have to answer a myriad of questions from the Internal Investigations Unit. In addition, they will have to deal with the Monday morning quarterback office types who will second guess their every move, albeit they in all likely have never experienced any situation that is remotely close to that depicted here.
I am not privy to the actions that transpired prior to this image being taken, but I can assure you that I have had situations where someone attacked me with a hammer, and the ensuing results were very similar to those depicted here. Did I care that the victim was injured, you bet I did, but I am not a paramedic, hence I waited for those with the proper equipment and training to deal with the injuries.
With regards to the visible emotions,,,it could be argued that perhaps these police officers have encountered similar situations on a frequent basis and maybe, just maybe, their emotions were held in check because they have become jaded.
Ray |
Ray, I'm well aware of all that. I'm not surprised they are appearing "emotionless". My point is only that the IMAGE might have scored better if the cops were displaying visible emotion; NOT that I think they should have been doing so.
R. |
Once again... Ray misunderstands a very simple comment, written in plain english...My apologies my friend for failing to grasp the intent of your message.
Ray
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01/07/2006 06:22:48 PM · #49 |
A 5.5 is not that low. It might not be a really high scoring photo, but it's not a low score either.
I didn't vote on that challenge, but I probably would have given it a 5 or 6 for a couple reasons. It's partly because I don't like the soft focus on the cops. I'd prefer them either in (same as the bleeding guy) or out of focus. The way they are, it looks like you wanted them in focus but couldn't get them so. I also think the title makes it a forced fit to the challenge, since I really doubt they dropped him. I could see it fitting in an oops, the bleeding guys just screwed up his life big time sort of way, but giving it the title you did makes it feel like it was just your favorite shot of the week and you're shoehorning it into the challenge. |
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01/07/2006 06:33:20 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
...albeit they in all likely have never experienced any situation that is remotely close to that depicted here.
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In in this small part you would be wrong. These police block off sections of the road in the downtown district every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night for the bars and clubs. For the most part they seem over tolerant most of the time towards drunken infractions, and send most people on their way (to drive home drunk). But if anyone gets in a serious fight they go to jail. If they resist, challenge, curse or assault an officer they are often treated very roughly. It's just the way things are in downtown Mobile.
Message edited by author 2006-01-07 18:37:37.
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