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01/03/2006 02:11:00 AM · #1 |
I think it would be cool on the Critique Club drawing page to see how many shots a Critique Club member has drawn amd actully critiqued. This would give a Club member a sense of accomplishment!
On the critique pages, I would like to see the following changes. I think it would be good to see the image as a portfolio image is seen by a member... That is without comments and with only the image data as entered by the submitter. You know, exposure data and comments by the photographer. I think this would give us the members a blank slate to draw upon when posting our critique. I would like also to see a link to the photo page with all the comments already given. This would be useful when the Club member needs a little ispiration to draw upon.
I am a critique club member who hasn't been very active lately. The reason for this is because I got very tired of attempting to critique shots that the photographer didn't bother to leave their views on. Also it was very frustrating to draw a photo to critique that already had many many constructive comments on or even a ribbon winner...
I know that d/l are very busy but this is just my two cents worth...
Message edited by author 2006-01-03 02:15:36. |
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01/03/2006 02:34:51 AM · #2 |
We are currently discussing the CC stats being visible to you guys. I beat you to it. :)
I'd be very excited to see these stats available for everyone. Something I have come up (and proposed to SC) with would be on the page where you request a photo for critiquing, something like this...
*Give me an image to Critique*
CC stats as of January 2006
Personal stats: HBunch
You have drawn 7 photos for crtique this month
You have critiqued 7 photos this month
Year to date 7 photos
You have given 438 critiques to date
General stats:
31 photos have been critiqued this month
There are currenty 11 active members this month
There is 1 new CC member this month
7855 photos have been critiqued to date
Featured (random) Critique
***Enter random CC Critique here***
There are accurate current stats, if anyone cares, but I really think this would help increase the amount of critiques given. So, now it's up for public discussion as well.
Is this something like what you would like to see TooCool? |
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01/03/2006 02:38:50 AM · #3 |
That's the idea for the drawing an image page... In fact it's perfect!
I would also like to see the suggestions I made for the actual photo page itself. To repeat... Don't show comments already given initially rather only the photogs info and exposure info. Add a link that will take you to the photo's real page if you need more inspiration! |
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01/03/2006 02:45:24 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
To repeat... Don't show comments already given initially rather only the photogs info and exposure info. Add a link that will take you to the photo's real page if you need more inspiration! |
We'd have to take a vote on that, I think, cause to me, it's very helpful to have the other's comment's available on screen to look at. I always look at the other comments, especially so I know what has not been mentioned already. For example, they got 30 comments on the focus, but no one mentions the lighting, then I'll go into more detail on the lighting than I might have otherwise.
The comment box is on top of the other's comments, so it's not like you have to scroll through them in order to write your comment. I also like to reference other comments in my critiques. For example, someone says 'angle is weird'. I might say, I agree with the comment about the angle and would like to elaborate on that.
So the other comments help me very much.
Maybe when the time comes, we can start a thread asking if people like it better seeing the comments or wish they were not visible.
I've vote to see them. |
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01/03/2006 03:14:41 AM · #5 |
I vote to see the comments also.... I would also like to see the results page, it is helpful to see that the shot got 15 (10's) and 5 (1's) or whatever, this helps me to comment as to why 5 voters did not like it while the other 15 voters loved it. The results page is not currently on the CC coment page I have to open another window to get it.
Remember we are doing a critique and the more information that we have to critique on the better critique we can give...
Just my thoughts!!! |
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01/03/2006 04:19:47 AM · #6 |
I like stats, so the more the better as long as they don't get in the way. A list of top 'so many' critics for the month/year/all-time would be fun to watch as well.
I don't mind the comments being on the same page. If you don't want to read them, don't scroll down to them. However, I do agree they should not get in the way of those that don't want to see them.
In our profiles challenge entries are listed with the option to 'roll-out' more detail (a thumb of the picture in this case) -- would it be possible to have all the comments rolled up into a comment section that must be unrolled to view. The same could be done with the image data, photog info and challenge placing.
BTW: Why can't we see how the image did in the challenge (aside from the final score) without navigating to the actual image page. If we are to keep the challenge topic in highest regard when voting on images, shouldn't we also keep the challenge (and by extension, how the image did in the challenge) in mind while critiquing the entry?
David
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01/03/2006 05:08:31 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by shaver:
I vote to see the comments also.... I would also like to see the results page, it is helpful to see that the shot got 15 (10's) and 5 (1's) or whatever, this helps me to comment as to why 5 voters did not like it while the other 15 voters loved it. The results page is not currently on the CC coment page I have to open another window to get it. |
I'm right with shaver here in every respect and do not support reducing the amount of information given to the critiquer. There is a difference between commenting on an image in voting and a critique.
In voting the reaction to an image must be emotive and personal, totally Subjective. In a critique the task is to be Objective. It is to analyse all the factors that went into taking and making the image. There are so many more things to consider from the photographer such as intentions, failed techniques, compromises and shortfalls. Then there is the consideration of how the final product has been received, what people's reactions are. If they are negative, how can they be addressed etc etc
I too open the portfolio image to get all the info I can about the image. Then I look at the photog's body of work. If the satndard is high to very high consistently, then it's clear that I don't need to go into a lot of detail about saturation or DOF. For that person I focus on how the various elements have been presented in this image alone.
For those whose portfolios show consistent technical issues, then clearly their need is for suggestions on how to work around and correct those.
So if we're voting Heather, more info, not less please :)
Cheers, Brett |
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01/03/2006 06:02:19 AM · #8 |
I too like seeing the previous comments so that I can focus more on the areas that perhaps no one else, or not many people, have commented on.
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01/03/2006 08:44:03 AM · #9 |
I gave my highest number of CC critiques before it was automated so they wouldn't show up in any count for my name :o(
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01/03/2006 09:49:16 AM · #10 |
I like seeing the stats and score, the comments given, the technical details.
it'd be nice maybe to keep the photographer hidden until after the critique is done, and then then bring up the PM screen or perhaps an automated PM to the photographer that the CC has been there.
Since we value anonymity in the challenge, why not for the critique as well? It's nice i guess to know you are critiquing a noob, but can be intimidating if you pull a heida or something. Not knowing who's image it was might be a good thing.
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01/03/2006 10:08:37 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
perhaps an automated PM to the photographer that the CC has been there. |
Now thatg is another thing I would love - an automated message to let them know their image has been critiqued.
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01/03/2006 10:09:56 AM · #12 |
I haven't read the entire thread but I have a question. How would visible statistics be of any use? The CC member's statistics that is. Just curious.
June
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01/03/2006 10:31:13 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Chiqui:
I haven't read the entire thread but I have a question. How would visible statistics be of any use? The CC member's statistics that is. Just curious.
June |
Visible statistics can act as an incentive to the Critiquer, and besides, to me anyhow, they are fun - that is, if I don't have to compile them.
I especially like the idea of total critiques given by everyone vs total number of images to be critiqued,on a per month basis. If implemented, perhaps this stat could be made available to everyone. Then more members might be moved to join the Club and more critiques would get done.
For a hypothetical example: This month, 11 CC members gave 350 Critiques; there were 2,300 images in the queue.
On showing other comments or not. I certainly vote for showing all the comments given. This is information that is useful in the critique. If I don't have prior comments immediately available, I would certainly navigate until I found them. That would take more time per critique. |
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01/03/2006 10:37:04 AM · #14 |
This is a very personal opinion but when you show statistics as an "incentive" to the critiquer they will start giving bad/useless critiques just to keep up and look good in numbers. Once again, just my personal opinion.
June
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01/03/2006 10:49:18 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Chiqui:
This is a very personal opinion but when you show statistics as an "incentive" to the critiquer they will start giving bad/useless critiques just to keep up and look good in numbers. Once again, just my personal opinion.
June |
Well, Chiqui, you have a point here. Perhaps if I changed "incentive" to "sense of accomplishment" it clarifies the meaning of my previous sentence. In any event, we don't get any special preference, or any ribbon, etc. for doing these critiques. What we do get, besides what I said above, is more personal photographic knowledge from looking at images intensely and carefully. So, there really is no incentive for someone to inflate their critique stats.
And, I expect, if someone, for some quirky reason, wanted to have a big number, and didn't want to work for it, one of the Site Council members would simply remove that member from the Club. |
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01/03/2006 11:24:41 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by ShutterPug:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
perhaps an automated PM to the photographer that the CC has been there. |
Now thatg is another thing I would love - an automated message to let them know their image has been critiqued. |
I agree, I have just joined and I really dont like having to post the comments, and then have to find a way to get back to the photograph so I can send a PM that it has been done.
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01/03/2006 11:46:23 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by MattO:
I agree, I have just joined and I really dont like having to post the comments, and then have to find a way to get back to the photograph so I can send a PM that it has been done. |
One way to do this is to hold the SHIFT key, then click on the photographer's name before hitting the submit button on your critique. This will bring up the users profile in a seperate window and then after you submit your critique, you can just go to the seperate window for email info.
I have revised my CC notification email this year. It now says...
"Hi there, per your request, you have received an in depth critique from the Critique Club on you Shallow DOF entry titled Mice. I hope this information is useful. ~Heather~"
I figured maybe newer people weren't putting it together that this is what happens when they click that button. If you always click the button for in depth critique, and haven't received one, you might think that it means that you want critiques during the challenge. So, that's my idea anyway. ~Heather~ |
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01/03/2006 03:55:51 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Since we value anonymity in the challenge, why not for the critique as well? It's nice i guess to know you are critiquing a noob, but can be intimidating if you pull a heida or something. Not knowing who's image it was might be a good thing. |
Cool sentiment Prof but not one I'm comfortable with.
Sometimes a critique can take up an hour of time. To waste some of that time telling "Heida" about DOF or composition would be just that - a complete waste and really really annoying. By knowing as you're doing the Critique that's it's "Heida's" image one could spend more quality time in discussing the finer points of how you interpreted what she had done. That is far more use to both of you.
Brett |
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01/03/2006 04:06:27 PM · #19 |
I consider previous comments vital to a useful critique. Do I agree with them or not? What kind of feedback has this photographer received? If I see that others have throuroughly covered a certain area, I can note that in my critique and move on to some other aspect of the image.
Ditto knowing who the photographer is; I will check their profiles and get a sense of who they are and what they have been doing. If I draw the work of a skilled photographer, my critique can often go deeper.
I feel "lucky" when I draw an image from one of our more-skilled members; I enjoy working on those :-)
I'm all in favor of the proposed "critique stats".
I'm very much in favor of being allowed to immediately pass on critiquing an image that contains no information in the details areas, and is of little aesthetic value. I don't believe we should be required to critique images that the photographer has not given us information on.
R. |
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01/05/2006 03:04:43 PM · #20 |
Seems that seeing the comments is popular. I guess if you don't want to see them, don't scroll down. ;)
Anyway...I just want to let ya'll know (and shhhh it's probably a secret) that I just viewed a proposed CC stats page (thanks to Langdon) and it's awesome! I hope it gets the thumbs up from SC and Admin to go ahead. I put in my thumbs, wish it luck. *crosses fingers* |
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