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12/16/2005 12:17:09 PM · #1 |
I purchased a Quantaray Polarizer filter two days ago for the purposes of a photo shoot. I did the photo shoot yesterday and today was able to look at the results on my computer. Crap! There are still very visible reflections that spoil the composition.
I called Wolf Camera and they informed me that I needed to turn the lens so that it gets darker....well I just did a test now with the reflective glass table and at 90 degrees and at 45 degree angle it does NOT make a visible difference!!!!
I am kicking myself for (1) I should have checked this while at the store (2) now I have to do a reshoot (3) now there maybe no guarentee that I can get the shot without the reflections in the glass.
I would post the shots here but since it is exclusive work going to be donated to Artists for Charity I want to post it there first.
Question is: Is there a filter out there for my Olympus c-8080 that will eliminate the reflections on a glass window when I am shooting at a 45 degree angle to the model & the window????
If not is there a way to eliminate the reflections using Paintshop magic????
The shots are pretty much ruined if I cannot get the reflections removed for it really spoils the mood and composition. Please help!!! |
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12/16/2005 12:28:25 PM · #2 |
The polarizing filter ought to remove virtually all reflections from a glass window. Your description says "turn the lens"; that's not accurate, it's the FILTER that needs to be turned whilst ON the lens.
Furthermore, 45 degrees and 90 degrees may not do the job. It's a very fine adjustment; you need to adjust it while looking through the viewfinder. The effect should be visible and tunable through the viewfinder.
It may not work well if the reflections are caused by artifical light: the light itself needs to be polarized, which sunlight is.
Robt. |
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12/16/2005 12:29:31 PM · #3 |
I'm not an expert, only speaking from some vague knowledge and personal experience:
A) a polarizer helps, but can't perform absolute miracles
B) I forgot the exact theory, but it only works when the sun/light comes from a particular angle. Sometimes the difference a polarizer makes is HUGE, other times not noticable no matter HOW much you turn it.
Is there a way to shoot either at a different time of day or from a different position?
C) You DID buy a circular polarizer rather than a straight one, right? |
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12/16/2005 12:34:32 PM · #4 |
| just one question, are you shooting at sunset, or during over cast day, i have never had a glare problem and i dont use a polerizer, |
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12/16/2005 12:41:19 PM · #5 |
| Also, the cheaper polarizers don't block as much of the reflections as the more expensive ones. This is not to say that the one you have is cheap just something to consider. |
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12/16/2005 01:31:11 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
I'm not an expert...
C) You DID buy a circular polarizer rather than a straight one, right? |
Not an expert either, but this is the one thing I've been told--it *must* be a circular polarizer if you're putting it on a digital camera. I have a Quatary brand polarizer and it works just fine. Under many circumstances the polarizer will not completely eliminate glare--but it should be fairly noticeable through the lens when taking the picture.
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12/16/2005 01:33:05 PM · #7 |
| You'll still see the effects of a linear polariser when looking through the viewfinder, but many digital cameras will have problems with autofocus with a linear polariser. |
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12/16/2005 01:47:32 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
It may not work well if the reflections are caused by artifical light: the light itself needs to be polarized, which sunlight is.
Robt. |
hmmm i'd have to disagree on this one bear...as far as i understand sunlight is not naturally polarized (meaning its composed of a whole mix of different polarizations) but any light is made polarized by oblique reflection. This means most sunlight turns out polarized if you're facing away from the sun, after being reflected off water droplets in the sky etc, but would not be if you're facing towards the sun.
In the same way, any light, whether artificial or not should be polarized by reflection, so long's the reflection is not at 90* to the surface
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12/16/2005 01:51:39 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by kirsty_mcn:
Originally posted by bear_music:
It may not work well if the reflections are caused by artifical light: the light itself needs to be polarized, which sunlight is.
Robt. |
hmmm i'd have to disagree on this one bear...as far as i understand sunlight is not naturally polarized (meaning its composed of a whole mix of different polarizations) but any light is made polarized by oblique reflection. This means most sunlight turns out polarized if you're facing away from the sun, after being reflected off water droplets in the sky etc, but would not be if you're facing towards the sun.
In the same way, any light, whether artificial or not should be polarized by reflection, so long's the reflection is not at 90* to the surface |
That's all true to a degree, but regardless polarization works better with sunlight than with artificial light sources; sunlight is highly directional in nature, and most artifical light sources are not. It's true that any sort of reflection at a reasonable angle off glass or water ought to be polarizable (and that reflections off metal are not), but there are stilld egrees of it, and in my experience polarizing works better with daylight than with any other light source.
Robt. |
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12/16/2005 02:15:05 PM · #10 |
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12/16/2005 10:24:44 PM · #11 |
Thank you for everyone's input so far.
To answer some of the questions:
The Polarizer filter is a circular one that fits over the lens
I was told by a photog employee at Wolf Camera that a polarizer lens is NOT as effective at reducing or eliminating reflections shooting the subject at a 45 degree angle as it is shooting it sraight on facing a 90 degree angle. I did a test shot at home with my glass table and turned the Filter while on the camera lens and noticed LITTLE TO NO reduction of reflections either at shooting at a 45 degree angle and 90 degree angle to the subject.
I did turn the filter while on the lens of my camera - but as I said, I should have seen a sugnificant reduction/elimination of reflections _ THIS did not happen, as that it only reduced it by 10% and that is being generous in estimization.
The photo shoot was shot at 10 a.m. on an overcast drizzly day. The location was at a small shopping center - outdoors. There is a covered pathway between two shoppes. Both have large glass windows. Model was seated next to coffee shop with the large windows from shoppe across the way (10 feet) casting reflections on the coffee shop window.
One picture was taken with flash but I do not like that shot because it creates shadows where it should not, plus the light is not a soft complentary light that is better suited to the composition.
So, my question is:
Is the Quantaray Polarizer substandard quality? And if so is there a better quality Polarizer out there that would suit my needs?
My options at the moment stand at:
1) Do a reshoot with a hopefully better quality Polarizer.
2) Do a reshoot at a different time of day and hope that the light is the same soft light I need and the reflections are not present.
3) Go back to the location and shoot a few shoots at the same angle with flash and without the model. Then do some paintshop magic to use the cut & paste the windows without reflections into the one with the model.
Anyone have some suggestions or answers to my questions? |
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12/16/2005 10:29:09 PM · #12 |
I can't say whether your polarizer is substandard or not. I was just stating what the difference would be. Let's deal with what you have.
If you can, go back to the location and play with the polarizer to see if you can eliminate some of the reflections. Once you have an idea of how you have to shoot then reshoot with the model. |
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12/16/2005 10:30:54 PM · #13 |
| one word "Quantaray" Go try out a hoya or cokin polarizer. I think that you will see a difference. |
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12/16/2005 10:38:46 PM · #14 |
It appears that the filter you have is not multicoated. Here's the info I found about the Hoya filters of which there are three grades.
The lowest which isn't multicoated I couldn't find a number representing how much reflection would be reduced.
For the next level, multicoated, the specs say reflections can be reduced down to 1-2%.
For the highest, super multicoated the specs say reflections can be reduced down to 0.3%.
Price goes up accordingly. |
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12/16/2005 10:50:14 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
It appears that the filter you have is not multicoated. Here's the info I found about the Hoya filters of which there are three grades.
The lowest which isn't multicoated I couldn't find a number representing how much reflection would be reduced.
For the next level, multicoated, the specs say reflections can be reduced down to 1-2%.
For the highest, super multicoated the specs say reflections can be reduced down to 0.3%.
Price goes up accordingly. |
Since I saw Nomad469's suggestion I have been doing a little web surfing and I am finding that not all Polarizers are equal...matter of fact like what you found the Quantaray is not multicoated and thus is not going to help me. It does seem that Hoya or Cokin polarizer's are and thus what I would need - of course the price does go up - but you do get what you pay for.
I should have done my homework on this one like I did when I was looking into purchasing my current camera. Ah, well live and learn. Luckily I have the reciept and will return the Quantary and get a better quality polarizer. Thanks for the input. |
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12/16/2005 11:09:44 PM · #16 |
| I have a Tiffen circular polarizer and while it doesn't eliminate ALL reflections on glass, it makes a substantial difference in them. |
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12/16/2005 11:31:27 PM · #17 |
With all due respect to Eddie and the rest of the Ritz people...
I would use them for consumables but IMHO be wary on anything from Wolf or Ritz that is store branded. They market their gear to the very amature and they have built a pretty good market on that level of consumer. I am not "knocking" them but I am sure that they would agree.
I would suggest building a relationship with a local store in your area that caters to a more advanced set of consumer.
Yes you may pay more for some things (hoya vs Quantaray) but you will see the difference in the quality and that difference will show in the final images.
One thing the person at Wolfe said is correct and dovetails with the technical explaination that Bear gave if you can offset slightly from the glass surface it will help the polarizer.
dave |
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12/17/2005 01:40:55 AM · #18 |
here are a couple of shots showing the difference you should get using a polarizer... but these were shot in full daylight
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in the first shot there are lots of reflections on the side paint/windows while you can see through the front window in the second shot these are reversed
you could see the changes as you turned the polarizer
the polarizer was a fairly std hoya one |
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12/18/2005 10:32:53 AM · #19 |
I notice that you said the day of the shoot was overcast. This usually creates beautifully even light on subjects, but might be the opposite of what is needed to really get the most benefit out of a polarizer. It is very indirect light.
I can't really say much else, as I don't know much about it, but when wearing my polarized sunglasses, I find that there are many reflections which do NOT go away entirely. Glass surfaces most particularly. |
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12/18/2005 10:58:31 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Firsty:
here are a couple of shots showing the difference you should get using a polarizer... but these were shot in full daylight
~
in the first shot there are lots of reflections on the side paint/windows while you can see through the front window in the second shot these are reversed
you could see the changes as you turned the polarizer
the polarizer was a fairly std hoya one |
Great illustration of the effect of the polariser.
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