DPC Mentorship - The Business of Photography

11/26/2005 07:00:35 PM · #226

Mandy,

When you can turn out portraits like these:

then I believe you need not worry so much what the "other" photographers are doing. You have created portraits that are more artistic and emotive than many "pros" with fancy equipment and deep pockets. I'm sure it will take perserverence. If you enjoy what you do, then stay with it. Just because you are an excellent photographer doesn't mean you have to make money from it. That's a decision only you can make. But once made, don't doubt yourself.

From what I can see, if you desire to make this into a business, your best asset is yourself - so be proud of what you accomplish. If the other studios also succeed, there's no crime committed. For what it's worth, I think you also have what it will take to be successful as a paid photographer. Have you given any thought to perhaps teaming up with one of the other photographers? Just a thought.

11/26/2005 07:02:03 PM · #227

Just wondering if anyone as read my question about Photoreflect and could be of help? I'd like to get my business cards made, but I'm still not sure about the Photoreflect site. I don't want to put it on my cards if I end up not using the site.

Brent_Ward

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L USM

11/26/2005 07:05:48 PM · #228

Every Tom, Dick and Harry who gets a DSLR, thinks they can go make money with the camera. They go into the biz without a full knowledge of the field. A few make it to become better, most don't.

Business knowledge, talent and most of all, persistence is required to stay in the game for the long haul.

Start on a smaller scale if your really worried about the competition. Build up a client base (& reputation) slowly, while letting the others burn bridges and go out of business.

But in all reality, you should be confident that you offer something that other's can't.

Message edited by author 2005-11-27 00:35:11.

11/27/2005 10:43:51 AM · #229

Originally posted by jpochard:

I guess my question is do I have to choose one of those labs and give them my credit card info, which I do not want to do? It looks like before I can "add custom item" I have to have a full association with one of their labs.

I guess I'm just not clear on how the whole order process for Photoreflect works. How do I get paid from the people who place an order? It sounded like if an order is placed, the lab charges MY credit card? I would appreciate some clarification for this foggy brained photographer :)

Photoreflect does not charge your card. If you want to do your own printing, you "add self print item" which is between add lab print and add custom item. I'm not sure you have to be associated with a lab to use the service but I'm fairly certain that you do not need to be and you do not need to enter your credit card info anywhere unless you want to place orders.

11/27/2005 10:46:06 AM · #230

Originally posted by LKMote:

Here is my card. I am still working on it.

I like your photos and their placements. I'm not sure about the text and information - it looks a little plain. Is that all the info you want to give people?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

11/27/2005 11:06:30 AM · #231

Originally posted by mandyturner:

I am getting so discouraged about trying to make a money off of photography. Seems like the closer I get ready to start really trying to make a go of it I hear about other people doing the same thing. There have been three photography studios open up here in the last three months. I live in a very rural area. I just don't know if there is a market for me.

First of all, I +1 to everything Brent said. He is right - 2/3 of small business fail and probably 80% of new photo studios because there's barely a barrier to entry. Anyone can pick up a camera and "start a studio" but I'm more concerned with long term financial benefit to myself.

Think about this - if 3 new studios have opened up, guess what? There's a market for photography. Maybe there wasn't in the past and now there is - that's GOOD news for you if you can take advantage of it.

What will differentiate you from them? Should you go work for them? Should you keep refining your skills and wait patiently for them to fold? 10 more will open between now and the time these 3 fold. Persistence and knowledge that your work is worth money - that's what wins.

Originally posted by mandyturner:

My husband says that I have something they don't....a passion for photography. He says that the other "Moms" who like to take pictures will eventually quit because they have poured all this money into equipment and backgrounds and will go broke. They won't make enough money to pay the rent. I will continue on I guess, I am working on getting jobs for my portfolio pictures but I can't help feeling bumbed out. I am not a pro. I have no lights. I have no studio. I have a point and shoot camera. I am not going to advertise till I look the part. ( I want to have my 20D first and some lights) (sigh)--I need a pep talk.

I don't know anyone who is in this business who's not passionate about the photography. A LOT of people aren't passionate about the business end and that's what ends them. I am 100% convinced that if you have a good business plan and a good business model, marketing ideas and a product worth paying for, you will last 50 years longer than the person who knows EVERYTHING about photography and they eat breathe and sleep it.

So you want my pep talk? While you are waiting for the 20D and lights, learn everything about marketing. Learn what Marathon Press is, learn who Kathleen Hawkins is and read or see anything you can by her. Research other studios that have been in business a few years - look at what they are doing right AND what they are doing wrong - make notes on it so you don't make the same mistakes when you do get running.

Two thirds of new businesses fail within 2 years guys. Let's be serious for a moment - there are 10 people in the class, plus me and Brent. 8 of our 12 businesses are statistically likely to be down the tubes in 3 years. Why? What can we do to make sure the 2/3 are "everyone else?"

mandyturner

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

11/27/2005 11:20:56 AM · #232

Well, I really don't want to work for someone else in "thier" studio. I think that would look bad for some reason. Plus, I can't just quit the job I have. It is a great job and I make pretty good money. I need a studio because I can't always take pictures outside. If I get one, my husband will just have to build it here on our property. I don't want to waist money on rent. After I get the new camera and learn how to use it, I will preceed on with lights and backgrounds and then beg him to build me something. How is that plan? Will probably take a year or two. Should I have cards printed now, even though I don't look professional with my point and shoot camera? I get jobs now through word of mouth. I am trying to slowly build a good reputation. I get enough side jobs to get some practice, but I'm not really making any money.

Since I brought it up, how big of a room do I need? Should I include a restroom? Should it have windows? If it doesn't have to have a bathroom or windows, I could probably afford to build one this summer.

LKMote

Canon EOS-7D

11/27/2005 03:08:23 PM · #233

Originally posted by mavrik:

Originally posted by LKMote:
Here is my card. I am still working on it.

I like your photos and their placements. I'm not sure about the text and information - it looks a little plain. Is that all the info you want to give people?

What else do you recommend putting on the card? What would you recommend doing to the text? I am working on the card in Photoshop, I'll see what I can do to change it up a bit.
I do plan on putting a phone number on it at some point.
Should I put something saying what I specialize in on the card?

11/27/2005 03:41:06 PM · #234

I'd put your name and phone # on it. :) You should also add either your website or your Photoreflect store depending on what you are doing with them. :)

M

LKMote

Canon EOS-7D

11/27/2005 04:03:13 PM · #235

Originally posted by mavrik:

I'd put your name and phone # on it. :) You should also add either your website or your Photoreflect store depending on what you are doing with them. :)

M

Ok thanks.

11/28/2005 08:09:09 PM · #236

Mandy and anyone else thinking of going this route, check out this thread & read the whole thing! It looks like a decent space to me and your photos are what is important- the end result of which is a happy client. I had a photographer friend run his studio out of his living room until he could afford a studio. (but then again, he was a bachelor...) :0)

11/28/2005 08:09:55 PM · #237

I have a photoreflect question too. I've set up my package group for print sets (default) and also set a package group of Al la Carte prices, however, when on the site where you click your purchase package choices you only get the default of group packages. If I change the default to the Al la Carte, you still get the group packages... what did I miss?

11/28/2005 09:02:11 PM · #238

your packages should be all under your groups it's only if you want to set up a different pricing structure you use a different group. (Like I have one set up specifically for family & friends...)

Message edited by author 2005-11-28 21:03:33.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

11/28/2005 09:05:14 PM · #239

Right - when you setup an event, say a portrait shoot, you start a new catalog. In there, you associate one package with that. You can then order only from that package.

If you want to self-order from your own cart, you can change the default package by clicking under "place order" the "add package" then change default group to the group you want. :)

I have a group called "base prices" for that stuff. :)

M

mandyturner

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

11/29/2005 12:03:10 AM · #240

Originally posted by oOWonderBreadOo:

That would be great if I had a garage. Great ideas though.

11/30/2005 11:32:45 PM · #241

I actually have the perfect place for a studio....but my mother in law lives there now :)

She lives with us in a three room setup. You open one door and it takes you into her "apartment." There is a nice, large, roomy livingroom type area with lots of windows (including a long built in window seat with storage), two closets, lots of built in shelves and cabinets. There is one smaller room that is used for the bed. It would be a perfect changing/makeup room. It has a double closet. And then third room is an average size with vinyl flooring that she uses for a small kitchen (no running water, though), computer room and misc. It would work very well for computer darkroom and framing / matting set up.

For an in-home arrangement, it really is ideal. I certainly wish nothing of ill will on my loving mom-in-law, however my husband knows exactly what will become of that space when his mom is no longer with us. :)

12/01/2005 12:50:10 AM · #242

Ok, I've decided that Photoreflect is absolutely for the birds. It's taking something that should be as simple as placing an order and getting paid for it, and making it a headache.

I'm glad you guys like it, but I'm going to have to figure out a different method. For one thing, I don't want to give up that much of my profit. Secondly, I never have figured out how to add a package so that it's shown with an event. Created the group, created the package, opened the event and chose the package under online options - but it's still showing nothing. I'm not stupid, but I am (just in case you couldn't tell by now) extremely frustrated with the whole software needed to deal with that site. And lastly, I don't like the idea of waiting on a middleman to give me my income.

So...just venting here and deciding there must be an easier way. :)

EDITED TO ADD: They even make it difficult to UNDO your account. It appears that the only way I have of getting my logo, name and account off the site is going to be to call customer service. I took all the photos, etc. off....but I don't want my logo and name just hanging out there. You can upload the logo, but I don't see a way to "unload" it. It just validated my reasons for not caring for the service.

One more edit: I did find an email contact form under customer care.

Message edited by author 2005-12-04 19:27:24.

12/08/2005 07:23:46 PM · #243

WOO HOOO Took pictures of a family for their xmas presents last saturday and they ordered over $500 in prints YAY ME!

*bumping the thread*

12/08/2005 07:29:17 PM · #244

wow way to go! did you use the online prints thing or do them yourself? I've done like 4 christmas card sittings but have only charged a sitting fee & then gave them a CD of the one they ordered... maybe I'm looking at things wrong?!! ;0)

12/08/2005 07:34:11 PM · #245

Well I used the online print thing for them to view, but I'm printing (with my local lab) and they are not paying me on it, *evil me*... 18% off the top is a big chunk for just processing the payment.

I also did three xmas cards, it was a lot of fun.

12/08/2005 08:40:48 PM · #246

Mel, that's awesome! I'm just going to use PBase for online viewing at this point until I get something else set up. Do you have the photos posted so we can see as well?

12/12/2005 06:34:58 AM · #247

Here is the stuff on photoreflect, the Brake shoot was my big order.

Link

And here is one of the x-mas cards I did. I found a lot of people who didn't like the template ones offered at various labs, too cheesy, so I just made these in PS and let them express themselves however they wanted, no preprinted saying etc.

I'm really going to start marketing the x-mas cards hard in October next year because I know a lot of people who were not able to schedule to get them done now and really liked the idea of designing their own cards/wording.

Message edited by author 2005-12-12 06:51:28.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/12/2005 10:10:57 PM · #248

how much did you charge for the cards? I know I went way too cheap...

rebelgirl

Canon EOS-30D

12/15/2005 09:55:34 PM · #249

Originally posted by oOWonderBreadOo:

how much did you charge for the cards? I know I went way too cheap...

I did too and I had someone question why I went over the lab prices. Dear God shoot me some people just don't get time, tallent, equipment, your print!